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CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

wondering said:
But I can't believe that God predestined WHEN we would acknowledge Him or respond to Him.
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Since he controls the when, where and how of when you'll hear the testimony of the Holy Spirit through the gospel message it most certainly is determined by him, not us, when we will be enabled to respond to his call.


wondering said:
I said that most persons come to know God when they're deep down in the barrel.
So do you believe God puts us there just so we could get to know Him?
I can't believe that.
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I shared the scripture that tells us we have been turned over to frustration in the hope of us being set free from our bondage to decay...

Romans 8:20-21
20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

You didn't decide that. GOD DID. It is "not by its own will" that creation is subjected to futility and frustration. God did that "in the hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay." Our miserable, frustrating lives are intended to drive us to the freedom of the children of God.
 
wondering,

Here's some scriptural food for thought...

Exodus 21:12-13
12Whoever strikes and kills a man must surely be put to death. 13If, however, he did not lie in wait, but God allowed it to happen, then I will appoint for you a place where he may flee.

Obviously, God may have not allowed it to happen. It shows us God is very active in and control of our affairs. Our lives are in his hands and are at his disposal, not ours. Here's another tidbit of scripture that has helped me form my beliefs about the sovereignty of God in the affairs of men.

Matthew 10:29
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.

We like to wring our hands in anguish about the things that happen to us and around us, but if not so much as a sparrow falls to the ground apart from the will of God then we can know that nothing is a surprise to God or out of his control, especially as we see the horrors of the end times unfolding before our very eyes. God has known about it and everything else from the very beginning and he is able to use it to his glory and our good.
 
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wondering ,

Here's some other food for thought.

In the Parable of the Sower who, or what, decided the soils would be the kind of soils that they are shown to be? Reformists, of course, say God. What say you?

I'm convinced that understanding God's work in the world is best understood as that of a husbandman working the soil of the earth.

Mark 4:13
13Then Jesus said to them, “Do you not understand this parable (of the Sower)? Then how will you understand any of the parables?

Does he determine the quality of the soil ahead of time as Calvinists claim? Or does his work in the fields of the world reveal the quality of the soil, realizing whatever potential it may have by sowing and watering it?
 
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jasonc said:
God let's us self destruct and used that to save us or correct us.
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I see Jethro engaged this.

We think we can make ourselves this or that .I'm not saying we have no abilities but only that God blessed and gifts us.this response would be lengthy if I went into how God used my dad's eccentric nature to save his sons and dad .my brother hardly reformed said it at the funeral .I said after it as my pastor preached it.how reformed of you to say that .
 
wondering said:
I know about the Apostolic Fathers that learned from the Apostles.
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lol NO the apostolic doctrine No trinity only baptize in Jesus name finial salvation being baptized in Jesus name . if not mistaken speaking in tongues evidence your saved... i could be wrong on that apostolic Pentecostals aka one ness doctrine
 
Jethro Bodine said:
wondering ,

Here's some other food for thought.

In the Parable of the Sower who, or what, decided the soils would be the kind of soils that they are shown to be? Reformists, of course, say God. What say you?

I'm convinced that understanding God's work in the world is best understood as that of a husbandman working the soil of the earth.

Mark 4:13
13Then Jesus said to them, “Do you not understand this parable (of the Sower)? Then how will you understand any of the parables?

Does he determine the quality of the soil ahead of time as Calvinists claim? Or does his work in the fields of the world reveal the quality of the soil, realizing whatever potential it may have by sowing and watering it?
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Does it matter if we understand the workings of God's mind?

I simply took God at his word and invited Jesus into my heart and life, and he has been my constant companion and guide ever since.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
(Rev 3:20 KJV)
.
 
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them like Jethro who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them like Jethrow he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
(Rom 8:28-30 KJV)
.
 
Cooper said:
Love God, not self or the things of earth.
.
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If we love God, do you think we show we do not love God, by engaging in the ends predictions of debates, disputes, strifes ?

If we did not love our own selves, do you think we demonstrate our only interest is discussing about ourselves, if we lose salvation for ourselves ?

How do we love God by ignoring every way of HIs, to only love in the deed of laying His life down, not keeing our lives as all we doi daily is talk about ourselves as our only interest of God? Not loving in mans false way, in word only, proving the people of this forum only go after their own covetousness (own interests) ?

These scriptures below, mean nothing to any of you doing all of these things here right now, but you are shown to be deaf, unwilling to hear any correction whatsoever.

You guys ignore, and continue on in the same vanity for years on your forums, but the time is coming soon to stop it, and who will miss great swelling words of vanity then...







Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

1 Timothy 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.



2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


Ezekiel 33:31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
 
Daily and on every thread for many years on these forums, the discussion is never about how Jesus layed His life down and how we do the same, to be as the believers 2000 years ago, to all be together and have all things in common, to use all they had to help anyone in need.

Why has nobody any shame at all to never hear how the great swelling words of vanity, ands the form of godliness, and the unbelieving saying they believe in God, is completely turned back against them, as they cant show love of God and others in words, they show disgust instead.




2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
 
gordon777 said:
If we love God, do you think we show we do not love God, by engaging in the ends predictions of debates, disputes, strifes ?

If we did not love our own selves, do you think we demonstrate our only interest is discussing about ourselves, if we lose salvation for ourselves ?

How do we love God by ignoring every way of HIs, to only love in the deed of laying His life down, not keeing our lives as all we doi daily is talk about ourselves as our only interest of God? Not loving in mans false way, in word only, proving the people of this forum only go after their own covetousness (own interests) ?

These scriptures below, mean nothing to any of you doing all of these things here right now, but you are shown to be deaf, unwilling to hear any correction whatsoever.

You guys ignore, and continue on in the same vanity for years on your forums, but the time is coming soon to stop it, and who will miss great swelling words of vanity then...







Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

1 Timothy 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.



2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


Ezekiel 33:31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
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I think it is right and proper, even necessary to uphold the teaching of the scriptures, after all. Jesus entered into debates with the Pharisees and others.
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gordon777 said:
Daily and on every thread for many years on these forums, the discussion is never about how Jesus layed His life down and how we do the same, to be as the believers 2000 years ago, to all be together and have all things in common, to use all they had to help anyone in need.

Why has nobody any shame at all to never hear how the great swelling words of vanity, ands the form of godliness, and the unbelieving saying they believe in God, is completely turned back against them, as they cant show love of God and others in words, they show disgust instead.




2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
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I have been on several forums, and as you say it is the same on them all, the trouble being the cults who claim to be Christians, but have their own agenda, and I feel it is important to stand up to the attacks on my faith. Even the scriptures I post are either denied or reinterpreted to mean something else. I would love to praise, worship and glorify the Lord in our study of His word, but I cannot see it happening soon. Perhaps we should pray for God's blessing that His name might be glorified.
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Cooper said:
Does it matter if we understand the workings of God's mind?

I simply took God at his word and invited Jesus into my heart and life, and he has been my constant companion and guide ever since.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
(Rev 3:20 KJV)
.
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Yes, you do need to know the workings of God's mind, or rather, his hand and how he grows each one of us into the image of Christ. For it is through knowledge that the new self is renewed in the image of its creator, Jesus (Colossians 3:10, Ephesians 4:22-23). That's the very thing we are predestined for (Romans 8:29). You only need baby milk gospel knowledge about repentance and faith in God, etc. to get saved, but you need the meat of the word about righteousness to be nourished to the likeness of Christ.

Hebrews 5:13-14 6:1
13For everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained their senses to distinguish good from evil.

1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Yes, you do need to know the workings of God's mind, or rather, his hand and how he grows each one of us into the image of Christ. For it is through knowledge that the new self is renewed in the image of its creator, Jesus (Colossians 3:10, Ephesians 4:22-23). That's the very thing we are predestined for (Romans 8:29). You only need baby milk gospel knowledge about repentance and faith in God, etc. to get saved, but you need the meat of the word about righteousness to be nourished to the likeness of Christ.

Hebrews 5:13-14 6:1
13For everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained their senses to distinguish good from evil.

1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God
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People sometimes say about mutual friends, "He knows it in his head, but he hasn't got it in his heart. "

So I need to ask
1) Are an intellectual believer or

2) Have you accepted Jesus into your heart, and consecrated your whole life to God?
.
 
Cooper said:
People sometimes say about mutual friends, "He knows it in his head, but he hasn't got it in his heart. "

So I need to ask
1) Are an intellectual believer or

2) Have you accepted Jesus into your heart, and consecrated your whole life to God?
.
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Both.
Having faith in God is both intellectual in the mind and experiential in the heart.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Both.
Having faith in God is both intellectual in the mind and experiential in the heart.
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They tend to balance one another and are both necessary for a healthy relationship with God. Most Christians are one or the other—cold and cerebral in a kind of textbook relationship with God, or hot and emotional in a kind of honeymoon relationship with God. Together, the one keeps the other in check.
 
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