CAN A REFORMED BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM FAITH?

[gordon777]

A child suffering from cancer brings no good.
If we worship a God that has to inflict cancer on a child to bring good...

then I'll stop worshipping Him right now.

Worship is not in strife, debate, dispute, it is in the opposite, to lay our life down as Christ did.


1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

 

[gordon777]

It's the only time I get to speak theology.
Look where I live.
Catholics are good people - but they know nothing of theology.
And it's like food to me.

Thirsting after righteousness, is not the same as after unrighteousness.

We are to thirst then to love in deed, not as you stated about yoursrlf, to thirst in word ( the time you get to speak theology)


Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

 

[GodsGrace]

Worship is not in strife, debate, dispute, it is in the opposite, to lay our life down as Christ did.


1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

Last post.
That's what I mean by worship.
I refuse to lay down my life, in any way,
for a God that has to inflict cancer on a child in order to show something or other,
or for the good of something or other.

The God I serve can do this in other ways.
I believe we are living on satan's territory, he is the prince of the air,
and we suffer from the evil inflicted by him.

Why God allows this we really do not know.
Some believe they know why evil exists, but really we don't
However, I can be sure that God is loving, and merciful and just
and that it is not God that is causing all the suffering in the world.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thirsting after righteousness, is not the same as after unrighteousness.

We are to thirst then to love in deed, not as you stated about yoursrlf, to thirst in word ( the time you get to speak theology)


Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Oh stop Gordon.
For goodness sake.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thirsting after righteousness, is not the same as after unrighteousness.

We are to thirst then to love in deed, not as you stated about yoursrlf, to thirst in word ( the time you get to speak theology)


Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Maybe, later on, you could explain what righteousness is...

 

[Cooper]

God made everything, just read and recap how it all works..

Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Ecclesiastes 3: 11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

To everything, there is a season,
A time for every purpose under heaven:
A time to be born,
And a time to die;
A time to plant,
And a time to pluck what is planted;
A time to kill,
And a time to heal;
A time to break down,
And a time to build up;
A time to weep,
And a time to laugh;
A time to mourn,
And a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones,
And a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace,
And a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to gain,
And a time to lose;
A time to keep,
And a time to throw away;
A time to tear,
And a time to sew;
A time to keep silence,
And a time to speak;
A time to love,
And a time to hate;
A time of war,
And a time of peace.

Isn’t the above about the natural cycle of life by which God will judge us on how we respond to these unavoidable events that beset us all?

"In the midst of all the inequalities of human affairs it is a great comfort to know that the eye of faith can see that Jesus Christ, the Judge, stands before the door and that when He comes, He will reward the righteous and punish the pride and cruelty of oppressors. Though the day of affliction may seem long, we may patiently wait for His coming, when there will be an examination into every purpose and every work done under the sun." (Summarised Bible)
.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's the only time I get to speak theology.
Look where I live.
Catholics are good people - but they know nothing of theology.
And it's like food to me.

Yes, I know what you mean. But the satisfying theological buffets are long gone in Christian forums these days.

 

[Cooper]

Why not show you can read even a little ? Withdraw ourselves from the disputer, strife makers..


Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Do you think this is for those who follow Christ, or do you think it is intended for the wicked?
.

 

[Cooper]

Yes, I know what you mean. But the satisfying theological buffets are long gone in Christian forums these days.

I'm not liking this.

In another two years, I shall be eighty years old and I can honestly say that in the whole of that time, God has looked after me, cared for me and supplied my every need, for which I can thank Him from the bottom of my heart.
.

 

[Randy]

You are showing nothing for people to not be immoral, as it ids stated, they ( unbelieving) profess ( pretend) that they believe in God, ( show words, debates, disputes only) but unto every good work they are reprobates. ( they talk and talk and have no time for good works)


Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

You are showing nothing for people to not be immoral, as it ids stated, they ( unbelieving) profess ( pretend) that they believe in God, ( show words, debates, disputes only) but unto every good work they are reprobates. ( they talk and talk and have no time for good works)


Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Just as I know a baseless claim as I give the words of Christ and openly proclaim my faith in Him.

But again please be specific in what I stated for the basis of your judgment against me as if you have any authority or place to judge anyone.. You state "you show nothing" for people "not to be immoral" Just what the heck are you talking about?? I do not in any manner promote sin as lawful or acceptable behavior. I believe those who continue to sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth should expect judgment.

I show Jesus.
This is a trustworthy saying remain in Christ and you will never die.
Jesus=>remain in me and I will remain in you.

I firmly believe the sexual immoral DO NOT enter the kingdom of God. Which is not the subject of this thread.

Jesus I know but you I don't know but from what your showing of yourself in regard to sitting in judgment of those in Christ doesn't speak well of you as a Christian witness. So instead of going through numerous threads and judging others perhaps you can address the subject matter being discussed with your understanding otherwise I don't see you to be here on these forums much longer because the administrators will rebuke you for personal judgments on others. Stay with the subject matter please.

"Jesus" called them clean and stated they were in Him. He told them to remain in Him.
I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes a so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

 

[Hopeful]

John just got done saying in the previous chapter to let the word (the seed) remain in you.

1 John 2:24
24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you.

So the seed remains in the one who continues to believe. And so we're back to the question of whether or not a true believer can stop believing or not.

As those born of God's seed, the true believers, cannot commit sin, the true believers cannot stop believing.
Disbelievers are not born of God's seed, and will fall away.

 

[Hopeful]

Do you really think the Spirit of Christ is guiding you to say an apple cant bring forth an onion ?

Don't you think the statement is true?
Seed can only bring forth after itself, so God's seed cannot bring forth evil fruit.

God is the good seed, and yet God brings forth evil. ( creates good and evil. Isaiah 45:7.)

The word is the seed by which we are reborn.
So you are starting with a false proposition.

God did bring forth the devil, God created the serpent to be more subtle than any creature the Lord God had made. ( Genesis 3:1.)

Yes God did, but the devil chose to do evil.
The devil wasn't "born of" God,

The purpose for God creating the devil, creating evil, was to present two choices, to hear God ( truth) or to hear lies ( satan)
God has not taken His purposes away, God has told man what to believe in, and satan still disputes. To claim that there is no way for Gods seed to return to the devils seed, is to try to take away the purpose God has creat3ed in the beginning. ( which you are very unable to do.)
That is why the verse continues, ( there is a condition.) it is that, whosoever does not do righteousness, by not loving their brother, then they are not of God.

So true.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Just read on and stop trying to spread deceit on the forum.

What deceit?
Be specific.

If we love the brothers, then we know we are in life. Because the ones who do not love, hate. To perceive ( continue in belief) of Christ, is to know He layed HIs life down for us, so we do the same ( same belief) But if we harden our heart, ( shutting up bowels of compassion) no love of God is dwelling in us.

Agreed.

This is not words for your exaltation and safety, it is exhortation ( which you have opposed and misinterpreted and others have of course agreed to selfish ways,

How have I opposed that?

then you boasted further that it is the Sprit guiding you.)

I wrote it so I did not get the credit someone was trying to give me, but you say it was boasting?
Read it again, please.

and Gods wisdom is simple and true, the children are warned not to love in word, but in deed ( laying our lives down and our self seeking coveting self concerns) to know we are of the truth. ( how was your advice then truthful to oppose this ?)

What advice do you refer to, as I don't recall advising anyone?

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

I thank God for His assurances and guidance.

 

[hawkman]

Now for all you debaters and disputers, your talk saying you are a Christian, is as far from being one that can be.


If anyone would control their tongue ( their texting) they might show they have a little belief in Jesus Christ, and instead I challenge you, that you cant avoid the wrath of God. ( by simply being slow to speak, slow to wrath you would succeed.)



Ecclesiastes 5:2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

I hereby bequeath to you the riddle of the 2X4 . The answer is in the Bible .

 

[Vinny37]

I reckon that any Christian can fall from Christianity. The TULIP system does make some logical sense, but is not IMO biblical, and besmears God. However, there are biblical warnings that while in fallenness we’re hardened against the spirit of grace, restoration is impossible. Some fallen do eventually soften, and get back. A bit like human to human relationships, where while hardness (bitterness) is retained, restoration is frankly impossible, and an inner hell can be lived.

The bigger picture for me, is that we’re talking about Level 3 salvation here (Christianity), not itself a sine qua non for Level 4 salvation, in which all who have a real heart for God, will know everlasting, postmortem, salvation, even if they had been blind to messiah in this life.

 

[GodsGrace]

I reckon that any Christian can fall from Christianity. The TULIP system does make some logical sense, but is not IMO biblical, and besmears God. However, there are biblical warnings that while in fallenness we’re hardened against the spirit of grace, restoration is impossible. Some fallen do eventually soften, and get back. A bit like human to human relationships, where while hardness (bitterness) is retained, restoration is frankly impossible, and an inner hell can be lived.

The bigger picture for me, is that we’re talking about Level 3 salvation here (Christianity), not itself a sine qua non for Level 4 salvation, in which all who have a real heart for God, will know everlasting, postmortem, salvation, even if they had been blind to messiah in this life.

Hi Vinny
Could you please explain the levels and also what the Latin means?
Thanks.

 

[rogerg]

The bigger picture for me, is that we’re talking about Level 3 salvation here (Christianity), not itself a sine qua non for Level 4 salvation, in which all who have a real heart for God, will know everlasting, postmortem, salvation, even if they had been blind to messiah in this life.

[2Co 11:3 KJV] 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Now for all you debaters and disputers, your talk saying you are a Christian, is as far from being one that can be.

for_his_glory

Gordon could use your help. This thread is riddled with this person's wild judgments.

 

[for_his_glory]

Closing this forum for as there is way to much to clean up in here. Violations of the ToS 1.1, 1.3, 1.5 have been made by a few of you and just way to much to try and delete. wondering started an important topic, but it has unfortunately gone down hill causing division among the Brethren and the unity of the Spirit is being grieved among some of the members. Please choose your words wisely as not to shame yourself before the Lord.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have reopened this thread after deleting many posts for being off topic and violations against the ToS. Please keep on topic and no more derogatory remarks made against each other. If this continues the violators will be banned from this thread. No need to reply to this.

 

[Randy]

As those born of God's seed, the true believers, cannot commit sin, the true believers cannot stop believing.
Disbelievers are not born of God's seed, and will fall away.

The fact that angels sinned and they know God shows the capability of free will beings to sin even though they believe and do so with the full knowledge of the truth.

If one falls away or doesn't "remain" in Christ that shows they did belong or were "in Christ" at some point in time. The warning Jesus gave was to all not just those cut off. "remain in me"

The only thing I can state with 100 percent confidence is remain in Christ and you will never die.