Forum Poll

[Rollo Tamasi]

The person's believed and then stopped believing.
If you don't believe you can't be saved.
So they lost their salvation.

I've told you at least 30 times.
31 is not on my current list.

 

[GodsGrace]

I've told you at least 30 times.
31 is not on my current list.

I know Allen.
We each believe what we believe.
But we can't both be right.

 

[FreeGrace]

Those guys are the ones that put the Bible together.

What? The guys you've been quoting? Nope.

The one you reference and that they understood much better than you do.
P.S. it behooves us to know some history and respect those that guarded our faith.

The Bible has been guarded all these centuries.

And I'm still staying with what the Bible says OVER what anyone after says.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Question was of OBEDIENCE. The apostles obeyed the Lord. They responded with their lives at stake. They went to the ultimate distance to obey. This tells me one thing clearly . They loved the Lord and understood the VITAL importance of obeying Him . And they did . They did what Jesus taught them / us-----do God's will over ours . However instead of that great Doctrine it has been all replaced with the desperate greed to enter Heaven and therefore the difficult part obedience was deleted in the easy believism Doctrine, and all that is left is Faith. You just confess once that you have faith and you saved forever. Why obey like the Christ and apostles?

You left out Judas Iscariot.
Aren't easy believers in the same boat he was in?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I know Allen.
We each believe what we believe.
But we can't both be right.

Thank you for admitting you are wrong.
About time...

 

[FreeGrace]

I know the story well. What was Templeton's faith grounded in? One man went left, the other right. One chose to trust God and the other himself.

I don't know how long he gave crusades, but the question remains: did he believe what he preached, or was he a phony during the whole time?

Since he mentored BG, it's clear he preached the biblical gospel.

It makes no sense that he would have preached what he never believed in the first place.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you for admitting you are wrong.
About time...

Cute!

 

[FreeGrace]

You asked for conditions.
I gave you two verses.
You are not willing to accept the truth.

Apparently my question was not read, or followed.

This is what I said:
"Why didn't Jesus add this "condition" to what He said about recipients of eternal life in John 10:28 then?"

Is there any willingness to answer this question?

Is John 10 the only chapter you know?
I believe our conversation is over.

Apparently so. I see absolutely no willingness to answer my legitimate question.

In fact, the question about my "only knowing John 10" shows a thinly veiled disagreement with v.28, which clearly states eternal security.

Instead of showing how it says something else, if it did, all OSNAS can do is deflect to other verses they think say something contrary to what John 10:28 says.

I keep repeating John 10:28 precisely because it clearly STATES eternal security.

 

[FreeGrace]

The person's believed and then stopped believing.
If you don't believe you can't be saved.
So they lost their salvation.

How come 2 Pet 2:20 doesn't even mention "salvation" or "lost"? It's anything but a clear verse. One MUST assume a lot to come to the conclusion that it is speaking of losing salvation.

Yet, John 10:28 is crystal clear. There are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life in order to never perish.

So, why does OSNAS keep inserting conditions that Jesus didn't?

The question that OSNAS will never even attempt to answer.

 

[GodsGrace]

Apparently my question was not read, or followed.

This is what I said:
"Why didn't Jesus add this "condition" to what He said about recipients of eternal life in John 10:28 then?"

Is there any willingness to answer this question?


Apparently so. I see absolutely no willingness to answer my legitimate question.

In fact, the question about my "only knowing John 10" shows a thinly veiled disagreement with v.28, which clearly states eternal security.

Instead of showing how it says something else, if it did, all OSNAS can do is deflect to other verses they think say something contrary to what John 10:28 says.

I keep repeating John 10:28 precisely because it clearly STATES eternal security.

I answered your question. You don't accept the answer.
As far as John 10:28, I agree with it. Nothing and no one can snatch a person out of God's hand.
And as long as you remain in His hand, you will be saved.

 

[FreeGrace]

Question was of OBEDIENCE. The apostles obeyed the Lord. They responded with their lives at stake. They went to the ultimate distance to obey. This tells me one thing clearly . They loved the Lord and understood the VITAL importance of obeying Him . And they did . They did what Jesus taught them / us-----do God's will over ours . However instead of that great Doctrine it has been all replaced with the desperate greed to enter Heaven and therefore the difficult part obedience was deleted in the easy believism Doctrine, and all that is left is Faith. You just confess once that you have faith and you saved forever.

If any of this was true, then why didn't Jesus just say so clearly:

"I give them eternal life and IF or AS LONG AS they keep obeying Me, they shall never perish." John 10:28

Now, IF Jesus had said that, you'd have a point. But He didn't.

Why obey like the Christ and apostles?

Simple, really. For blessings and eternal reward.

What else?

The emphasis on obedience makes works or effort part of how one is saved. Which takes AWAY what Christ did, and ADDS what you've done.

There is NOTHING one can do to ADD to salvation. We can only ACCEPT what Christ did for us. That's believing in Him.

Anything else is unbiblical.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I don't know how long he gave crusades, but the question remains: did he believe what he preached, or was he a phony during the whole time?

Since he mentored BG, it's clear he preached the biblical gospel.

It makes no sense that he would have preached what he never believed in the first place.

That's very questionable why he would do anything.
You never knew him.
If he was saved, then Judas Iscariot was saved.
And who knows how many others fit this category.

A person's unclear actions do not a doctrine make.

 

[GodsGrace]

How come 2 Pet 2:20 doesn't even mention "salvation" or "lost"? It's anything but a clear verse. One MUST assume a lot to come to the conclusion that it is speaking of losing salvation.

Yet, John 10:28 is crystal clear. There are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life in order to never perish.

So, why does OSNAS keep inserting conditions that Jesus didn't?

The question that OSNAS will never even attempt to answer.

Jesus included many conditions, you just don't like to think so.

Ephesians 5 states many moral values we are to have.
Is this not a condition?

 

[GodsGrace]

That's very questionable why he would do anything.
You never knew him.
If he was saved, then Judas Iscariot was saved.
And who knows how many others fit this category.

A person's unclear actions do not a doctrine make.

Actually FreeGrace admitted in his post that Templeton had to be saved...which means he became unsaved
When he denied God. Ditto for Judas.

 

[FreeGrace]

I answered your question. You don't accept the answer.
As far as John 10:28, I agree with it. Nothing and no one can snatch a person out of God's hand.
And as long as you remain in His hand, you will be saved.

What about the FIRST part of what Jesus said: "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish."

If by "agreeing" with John 10:28, does that include the first statement? Seems not.

If one accepts v.28a, then one MUST believe in eternal security. Because that is exactly what Jesus was indicating.

But, if Jesus wasn't indicating eternal security, why didn't He specify any conditions that must be met BEYOND receiving the gift?

By NOT specifying any conditions, He was making it clear that there are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life to never perish.

 

[FreeGrace]

Jesus included many conditions, you just don't like to think so.

Please list any conditions for recipients of eternal life in John 10:28.

Ephesians 5 states many moral values we are to have.
Is this not a condition?

For never perishing? No, they are not.

 

[FreeGrace]

Actually FreeGrace admitted in his post that Templeton had to be saved...which means he became unsaved
When he denied God. Ditto for Judas.

Of course he was saved. It would be ridiculous to claim that he preached the biblical gospel for the many years he did and yet never believed it.

And Jesus clearly said that those who believe HAVE (present possession) eternal life. John 3:15, 5:24, 6:47.

And Jesus clearly said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

So, Jesus gives the gift of eternal life WHEN one believes. And the result of receiving eternal life is that the recipient shall never perish.

This is eternal security.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this about Charles Templeton:
"It makes no sense that he would have preached what he never believed in the first place."

That's very questionable why he would do anything.
You never knew him.

Immaterial. He preached the biblical gospel, along with BG.

If he was saved, then Judas Iscariot was saved.

Where does the Bible say that Judas ever preached the biblical gospel?

A person's unclear actions do not a doctrine make.

Of course not. And I never insinuated such.

Point is: CT believed the gospel, proven by preaching it for years, and mentoring BG.
CT then lost his faith, and quit believing.

Yet, Rom 8:38 is clear; "Neither the present, nor the future" shall separate us from the love of Christ.

Or John 10:28; recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

Jesus acknowledged that some people will "believe for a while" and then fall away. He was describing CT.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Of course he was saved. It would be ridiculous to claim that he preached the biblical gospel for the many years he did and yet never believed it.

And Jesus clearly said that those who believe HAVE (present possession) eternal life. John 3:15, 5:24, 6:47.

And Jesus clearly said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

So, Jesus gives the gift of eternal life WHEN one believes. And the result of receiving eternal life is that the recipient shall never perish.

This is eternal security.

I don't disagree with your point.
I just don't believe a person who is filled with the Holy Spirit could walk away from Jesus forever.
We as humans don't have that kind of power.

 

[GodsGrace]

What about the FIRST part of what Jesus said: "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish."

If by "agreeing" with John 10:28, does that include the first statement? Seems not.

If one accepts v.28a, then one MUST believe in eternal security. Because that is exactly what Jesus was indicating.

But, if Jesus wasn't indicating eternal security, why didn't He specify any conditions that must be met BEYOND receiving the gift?

By NOT specifying any conditions, He was making it clear that there are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life to never perish.

If Jesus is the giver of eternal life then we trust in Him to give us that eternal life.
We cannot have eternal life if we abandon the one who gives it to us.