Forum Poll

[Rajesh Sahu]

"eye of a needle" refers to. It does NOT refer to a sewing needle.

Brother FG you're scripturally a very knowledgeable man and I mean that ----you have a vast knowledge of the scripture. I have been reading your posts for a while. But what you say here, I honestly found it funny and it made me laugh ( in a good way, not mocking at all).
So what needle was Jesus referring to His disciples, when he mentioned "eye of a needle"?
Matthew 19:24 ►
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."


Just to justify our own viewpoints we cannot distort Christ's words. It's very plain He was referring to a sewing needle, through whose eye even our finger cannot enter, let alone a camel... its impossible... it's not going to happen. And that's WHY He said what He said. I do NOT judge Rich people. I am rich too --- a millionaire ( if that's rich by the world standard then I am one--- there are so many billionaires!). I just quote Bible as it is, even if the above parable places "my salvation" in peril.
My simple question is WHAT needle was Jesus referring to if NOT a sewing needle?
I am aware brother, that Paul's verses are often used ( misused?) to counter anyone who dares to question saved by faith alone doctrine( which is blatantly heretical in my opinion). The problem here is the master Himself is speaking. Jesus cannot be countered with His servant Paul's words ( or anybody else's)

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Not in this verse He didn’t.

Matthew 19:23 Disciples’ Literal New Testament (DLNT)

23 And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you that a rich one will enter with-difficulty into the kingdom of the heavens.

In this verse does Jesus say a rich one will enter the kingdom, Yes or No?

Brother Chessman why are you quoting a Bible which DOES not have universal recognition. what does KJV say or NASB or niv ? tomorrow you will quote YOUR translation. Im not believing this DNLT! Give me original scriptures, not DISTORTED version. by the way, ive never even heard of DLNT. Who translated this?

 

[FreeGrace]

Brother FG you quote the rich man was " not ready" to believe in Christ according to Jesus Himself. So should we share the gospel only with ONES who ARE ready? and NOT with others like the rich man who in your words were "not ready? "

Only if one possesses omniscience. Jesus was making a point, as He always did.

So, what's the point? That we should not fret or be bothered when people we share the gospel with aren't interested, and even reject the gospel.

By going away sad, the rich man was rejecting what Jesus was saying.

 

[FreeGrace]

Brother FG you're scripturally a very knowledgeable man and I mean that ----you have a vast knowledge of the scripture. I have been reading your posts for a while. But what you say here, I honestly found it funny and it made me laugh ( in a good way, not mocking at all).
So what needle was Jesus referring to His disciples, when he mentioned "eye of a needle"?
Matthew 19:24 ►
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

My simple question is WHAT needle was Jesus referring to if NOT a sewing needle?
I am aware brother, that Paul's verses are often used ( misused?) to counter anyone who dares to question saved by faith alone doctrine( which is blatantly heretical in my opinion). The problem here is the master Himself is speaking. Jesus cannot be countered with His servant Paul's words ( or anybody else's)

I already explained what was meant. Jesus NEVER said it was impossible. That came from your post. He DID compare what was EASIER to do.

Therefore, by implication, it ISN'T IMPOSSIBLE for a camel to go through the eye of a needle.

If Jesus had only a sewing needle to refer to, why would He have used that analogy, since being "impossible" isn't remotely relate to what is "easier"?

Then you wrote this:

Just to justify our own viewpoints we cannot distort Christ's words. It's very plain He was referring to a sewing needle, through whose eye even our finger cannot enter, let alone a camel... its impossible... it's not going to happen. And that's WHY He said what He said. I do NOT judge Rich people. I am rich too --- a millionaire ( if that's rich by the world standard then I am one--- there are so many billionaires!). I just quote Bible as it is, even if the above parable places "my salvation" in peril.

First, I fully agree with your first sentence. Yet, the OSNAS view does distort Christ's words from John 10:28. What He said was SO CLEAR about eternal security. Those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH. Yet OSNAS forces conditions in that idea in spite of the fact that Jesus didn't.

And if there EVER was a verse that DEMANDS the listing of any conditions, this verse is it. And there are NONE.

So please, take your own advise.

Second, I strongly disagree with the last sentence. There are NO parables that places anyone's salvation in peril.

Why isn't it clear that if there were ANY parables or verses that do teach that one's salvation can be "in peril", then Joh 10:28 simply cannot be true. I would appreciate a direct answer to this question. Thanks in advance.

 

[FreeGrace]

Brother Chessman why are you quoting a Bible which DOES not have universal recognition. what does KJV say or NASB or niv ? tomorrow you will quote YOUR translation. Im not believing this DNLT! Give me original scriptures, not DISTORTED version. by the way, ive never even heard of DLNT. Who translated this?

Good question, RS! I use this link, https://www.biblestudytools.com, to check various translations. And the DLNT isn't available.

 

[chessman]

Brother Chessman why are you quoting a Bible which DOES not have universal recognition.

I'm not. Why are you assuming it doesn't have "universal recognition"? It's a literal NT in English.

what does KJV say or NASB or niv ?

They all similarly say the rich man enters Heaven. None say his does not enter Heaven or that it's impossible for a rich man to enter Heaven as your original post and continued posting do. He enters in a hard (or difficult) manner, but enter he most certainly does. In ALL translations.

Matthew 19:23 (NASB) And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.​

​

Matthew 19:23 (NIV) Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.​

​

Matthew 19:23 (KJV) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.​

Im not believing this DNLT!

Obviously. Then how about the KJV, do you believe Jesus said; "that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven", or do you believe Jesus said; 'that a rich man shall not hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven'?

Give me original scriptures, not DISTORTED version.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/19-23.htm

Ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν τοῖς μαθηταῖς αὐτοῦ Ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι πλούσιος δυσκόλως εἰσελεύσεται εἰς ὴν βασιλείαν τῶν οὐρανῶν

Do you believe the above original Greek Scripture above says; a rich man will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, yes or no?

by the way, ive never even heard of DLNT

Okay, that doesn't mean it's not a perfectly acceptable modern translation.

Who translated this?

LOGOS Bible Software (a perfectly expectable if not the best Bible Study Tools company there is) publishes it. It's the most literal word for word translation available today. There is no interpretation of thoughts of the translators in it. It just takes the best available NT manuscripts and directly translates it into English almost like an interlinear does (as you can see from the interlinear posted above.

Which is why Biblegateway recommends it as a study Bible; "“Bible Gateway Recommends Disciples' Literal New Testament: Serving Modern Disciples by More Fully Reflecting the Writing Style of the Ancient Disciples”

In accordance with the ToS for CFNet, it's an acceptable translation:

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?pages/terms-of-service/​

2.7: All Bible verses and passages must be referenced (NASB, NIV, etc.) unless it ispublic domain like the KJV, YLT, etc.​

Info on copyrights here:
http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/​

"Only scripture from accepted Christian bibles will be allowed to be posted on this board"​

 

[gr8grace3]

Yes I agree with God all things are possible
Can YOU answer why Jesus didn't ask the Rich man to BELIEVE in Him rather than asking him to OBEY?

The Lord Jesus Christ did ask the rich man to believe.

The rich man thought he was saved by following the law and The Lord showed him that he was not saved by following the law. He(the rich man) was burdened and heavy- laden with following the law for his salvation and money was his stumbling block.........the Lord revealed that to him, hence the rich man walked away 'sad' or 'grieved.'

So where was the 'call to believe upon Him?'

Matt 19:21~~New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come(the call to faith in Him), follow Me."

Matt 11-28~~New American Standard Bible
"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.

 

[gr8grace3]

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:19

Have you considered that John was not judging peoples salvation in this verse?

I believe John was judging their doctrines and not their salvation.

John taught true doctrine and spiritual maturity/growth. His churches were not the dog and pony show and tickle the ears type of churches. Believers who wanted their ears tickled and their feelings/pride were hurt from the solid truth John taught..............they left.

1 John 2:19 is speaking of believers who wanted the meat of the word and believers who didn't. John was not judging someones salvation he was judging their walk or lack of it.

Heb 5:14~~
New American Standard Bible
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not seeing anything about how to be saved in this verse. Please explain how this verse relates to the claim that the early church had a different concept of being saved than we do today.

It's easy to understand. Jesus said we must be born from above.
John 3:3
He said that if one is not born from above, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.
What is the Kingdom of God? It's the Kingdom that Jesus set up right here on earth.
Mathew 4:17 Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand.
Jesus came to set up the Kingdom of God. NOT to get everyone "saved" in the way that some understand this. We are saved, by following Christ. By following the one who gives us the "spark" of life. Eternal life is IN Jesus. If one is not IN Jesus, he does not have the spark of life.
John 10:27-28
John 6:40
Those who are IN CHRIST have eternal life, those who are not in Christ, do not have eternal life.

Consider the response of the Jewish believers when Peter explained his visit with Cornelius in Acts 11 -
v.17 - So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

These were the most "early church" ever.

And let's not forget Paul's answer to the jailer in Acts 16:
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

1. God gives the gift of life to everyone who believes in the Lord.
Those who do not believe, or stop believing in the Lord, the giver of Life, will not have the gift of eternal life. It is JESUS who gives us the spark of life. Without Him, we have not that spark of eternal life.

2. Please explain what the word "believe" means.
Do you think it means to believe with the mind?
Or does it mean to believe as to trust and obey?
IOW, with the heart. Those who do not believe with the heart cannot be saved because they do not trust the ONE who gives eternal life.

Please define "repentance". Then I will be able to respond or refute.

There is only one definition for repentance. And the definition alone explains why some are born again and why some are not.
To repent means to change direction, to turn around and go the other way.
One is walking toward satan -- he is lost.
He changes and turns around and walks toward God. He is now born again.
If he changes direction again by abandoning Jesus and walks again toward satan, he becomes lost again. This is an easy concept to understand.

 

[GodsGrace]

v.10 isn't about getting saved. That was settled in v.8 and works are eliminated from salvation in v.9. v.10 is about what believers were created to do.

Please use some syntax in your replies. It's very difficult to follow along.
You're speaking about Ephesians 2:8-10
Again: We are NOT saved by works. We are saved by grace through faith.
AFTER we're saved, works are necessary. The works that God created for us from the beginning of the world.
Ephesians 2:10 God is not present on the earth. We must do His works for Him. We are his hands and feet. We are to feed the hungry and clothe the poor and care for our families and live a life worthy of being saved and going to be with God upon death.

Then, did Jesus mis-speak in John 10:28 when He said that those He gives eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH?

If your claim was true, then John 10:28 would have said something like this:
"I give them eternal life, and IF, OR AS LONG AS they don't return to a life of sin, they shall never perish."

Jesus never misspoke. To those whom He gives eternal life, THEY shall never perish.
As in John 10:27
Jesus' sheep hear His voice and know His voice and He knows them and they FOLLOW Him. To follow means to do as He does. As long as one follows Jesus, He WILL give them eternal life and they will never perish. There is no doubt about this.
But we MUST be a sheep of Jesus and follow Him in order to receive eternal life.
Just as He said in John 10:27-28

But I see that He never said that. Or gave any conditions on recipients of eternal life so that they would never perish.

Yes. There are conditions, as I've quoted before.
Mathew 25:34-46
Mathew 5:3-10
Mathew 5:48
Mathew 7:23
John 14:15
John 5:28-29

Nowhere in the bible does it say that there is NO CONDITION to going to heaven.
It says that we are to BELIEVE in Jesus if we are to be with Him forever.
We've already gone through what believe means.

Well, here are the verses:
"8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,"

I don't see anything in either verse about "not being saved" due to lawlessness.

what I do see is that the Law was designed for sinners, of which all of the human race are.

So you believe the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious and those who kill their fathers or mothers and murderers are going to heaven?
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you posted.

 

[maplegoat]

Shared with permission. This is the last I'll share. There is no debate or question. God said it, Jesus died to confirm it. And that's the Gospel's truth.

Is it possible for a Christian to lose salvation?
The short answer to this question is "no." Then why do so many Christians seem to walk away from the faith? Haven't they lost their salvation? Again, no. The simple explanation is that those who walk away were never Christians to begin with. A "Christian" is not someone who has 'made a profession' by saying a prayer, or signing a card, or coming forward at the end of a church service. Neither is a Christian defined as someone born into a Christian family. A Christian, according to the Bible, is a person who has, by faith, received and fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior from sin (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). There are several reasons why it is impossible for a born-again Christian to lose salvation.

First and foremost, we become Christians by faith, and that faith is not something we come up with on our own. Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that true, saving faith is the GIFT of God. For salvation to be lost, God would have to take back His gift. God is not like a man that He lies or goes back on His promises. "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" (Numbers 23:19). Romans 11:29 tells us that "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Therefore, the gift of faith He imparts to His own will never be taken back. This is the most comforting truth about losing salvation—it can't be done because God won't allow it, for the sake of His name, His character and His glory.

Secondly, the Christian is a new creation—not a remake of an old creation, but an entirely new creation. "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come" (2 Corinthians 5:17). Again, the power for the new creation comes from God, not from us. Just as we had no hand in our first birth, we have no hand in our rebirth. We are God's creation and for a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to cancel and reverse the new creation.

Christians are redeemed, or purchased, by the blood of Christ shed for us on the cross. "For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect" (1 Peter 1:18-19 NIV). A redeemed person cannot be 'un-redeemed.' Furthermore, because God is omniscient, knowing all things before they happen, He would not shed His blood for those He knows He is not going to redeem.

Justification is the doctrine that explains what happens at salvation. "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). To be justified means to be declared righteous by God by virtue of the exchange that happened at the cross. Our sin was exchanged for the righteousness of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21). For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and "un-declare" what He had previously declared and take back the righteousness of Christ. That simply doesn't happen.

John 3:16 is the promise of God to give eternal life to all who come to Christ. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." Eternal life is just that—eternal—the promise of eternity (forever) in heaven with God. God promises, "Believe and you will have eternal life." For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would not be eternal. Again, God will not break His promise by taking away that which He has declared to be eternal.

Jesus made a profound statement about the security of the believer in John 10:28 "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one can snatch them out of my hand." Eternal life comes from God through Christ. They will never be lost and no one, including believers themselves, can be taken out of the firm grip of God.

From these few verses, we can see that it is impossible for a true believer to lose salvation. The saved cannot be 'unsaved.' The new creation cannot be un-created. The redeemed cannot be unredeemed. Eternal life cannot be made temporary. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and change His mind—two things that Scripture tells us God never does.

Those who object to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation point to professing Christians who continue to live in sin and those who become Christians and walk away from the faith. These 'professing' Christians are no Christians at all. If they were, their lives would reflect the fruit of the Holy Spirit who dwells within all believers. The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a continually immoral lifestyle (1 John 3:6), nor will a true believer depart from the faith. Those who do are demonstrating that they never truly were Christians (1 John 2:19). Therefore, neither objection is valid.

Jude 24-25 says it all: "Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen."

 

[Brock]

Have you considered that John was not judging peoples salvation in this verse?

I believe John was judging their doctrines and not their salvation.

John taught true doctrine and spiritual maturity/growth. His churches were not the dog and pony show and tickle the ears type of churches. Believers who wanted their ears tickled and their feelings/pride were hurt from the solid truth John taught..............they left.

1 John 2:19 is speaking of believers who wanted the meat of the word and believers who didn't. John was not judging someones salvation he was judging their walk or lack of it.

Heb 5:14~~
New American Standard Bible
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

I mean maybe but who knows

 

[GodsGrace]

Can a born again person (new creature) end up in hell?

No.

If so, does the Bible speak of being un-born?

You mean, IF NOT, I think.
Anyway, the answer is YES.
It IS possible to be unborn, as you put it.
Or, to lose one's salvation:
Romans 11:21-22
James 5:19-20
Hebrews 10:26-27
Mathew 5:13
1 Corinthians 9:27
2 Peter 3:17
1 John 2:24

And there are many more.

 

[GodsGrace]

Shared with permission. This is the last I'll share. There is no debate or question. God said it, Jesus died to confirm it. And that's the Gospel's truth.

Is it possible for a Christian to lose salvation?
The short answer to this question is "no." Then why do so many Christians seem to walk away from the faith? Haven't they lost their salvation? Again, no. The simple explanation is that those who walk away were never Christians to begin with. A "Christian" is not someone who has 'made a profession' by saying a prayer, or signing a card, or coming forward at the end of a church service. Neither is a Christian defined as someone born into a Christian family. A Christian, according to the Bible, is a person who has, by faith, received and fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior from sin (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). There are several reasons why it is impossible for a born-again Christian to lose salvation.

First and foremost, we become Christians by faith, and that faith is not something we come up with on our own. Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that true, saving faith is the GIFT of God. For salvation to be lost, God would have to take back His gift. God is not like a man that He lies or goes back on His promises. "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" (Numbers 23:19). Romans 11:29 tells us that "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Therefore, the gift of faith He imparts to His own will never be taken back. This is the most comforting truth about losing salvation—it can't be done because God won't allow it, for the sake of His name, His character and His glory.

Secondly, the Christian is a new creation—not a remake of an old creation, but an entirely new creation. "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come" (2 Corinthians 5:17). Again, the power for the new creation comes from God, not from us. Just as we had no hand in our first birth, we have no hand in our rebirth. We are God's creation and for a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to cancel and reverse the new creation.

Christians are redeemed, or purchased, by the blood of Christ shed for us on the cross. "For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect" (1 Peter 1:18-19 NIV). A redeemed person cannot be 'un-redeemed.' Furthermore, because God is omniscient, knowing all things before they happen, He would not shed His blood for those He knows He is not going to redeem.

Justification is the doctrine that explains what happens at salvation. "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1). To be justified means to be declared righteous by God by virtue of the exchange that happened at the cross. Our sin was exchanged for the righteousness of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21). For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and "un-declare" what He had previously declared and take back the righteousness of Christ. That simply doesn't happen.

John 3:16 is the promise of God to give eternal life to all who come to Christ. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." Eternal life is just that—eternal—the promise of eternity (forever) in heaven with God. God promises, "Believe and you will have eternal life." For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would not be eternal. Again, God will not break His promise by taking away that which He has declared to be eternal.

Jesus made a profound statement about the security of the believer in John 10:28 "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one can snatch them out of my hand." Eternal life comes from God through Christ. They will never be lost and no one, including believers themselves, can be taken out of the firm grip of God.

From these few verses, we can see that it is impossible for a true believer to lose salvation. The saved cannot be 'unsaved.' The new creation cannot be un-created. The redeemed cannot be unredeemed. Eternal life cannot be made temporary. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and change His mind—two things that Scripture tells us God never does.

Those who object to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation point to professing Christians who continue to live in sin and those who become Christians and walk away from the faith. These 'professing' Christians are no Christians at all. If they were, their lives would reflect the fruit of the Holy Spirit who dwells within all believers. The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a continually immoral lifestyle (1 John 3:6), nor will a true believer depart from the faith. Those who do are demonstrating that they never truly were Christians (1 John 2:19). Therefore, neither objection is valid.

Jude 24-25 says it all: "Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen."

If faith is necessary for salvation,
the faith is necessary to maintain salvation.

Belief in Jesus.............one is saved.
No belief in Jesus.....one is not saved.

We have faith..................we are saved.
We do not have faith...we are not saved.

Easy.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"v.10 isn't about getting saved. That was settled in v.8 and works are eliminated from salvation in v.9. v.10 is about what believers were created to do."

Please use some syntax in your replies. It's very difficult to follow along.

What I posted is quite clear.

You're speaking about Ephesians 2:8-10

Of course.

Again: We are NOT saved by works. We are saved by grace through faith.

Huh? Your previous post claimed that one is saved by changing directions.

AFTER we're saved, works are necessary.

OK. But, necessary for what? Please be specific. I agree they are necessary, but I believe for a very different reason than your view.

Jesus never misspoke. To those whom He gives eternal life, THEY shall never perish.

Then WHY on earth would ANYONE who believes that also believe that one who has been given eternal life CAN perish?

As in John 10:27
Jesus' sheep hear His voice and know His voice and He knows them and they FOLLOW Him. To follow means to do as He does. As long as one follows Jesus, He WILL give them eternal life and they will never perish. There is no doubt about this.
But we MUST be a sheep of Jesus and follow Him in order to receive eternal life.
Just as He said in John 10:27-28

v.27 has nothing to do with never perishing. v.27 is about who His sheep ARE. v.28 is about where His sheep (recipients of eternal life) will spend eternity.

Yes. There are conditions, as I've quoted before.
Mathew 25:34-46
Mathew 5:3-10
Mathew 5:48
Mathew 7:23
John 14:15
John 5:28-29

If ANY of these so-called conditions are required in order to never perish, then John 10:28 simply cannot be true. If there was ever a verse where conditions would be REQUIRED for clarity, John 10:28 is it. And there are NO CONDITIONS in that verse.

Nowhere in the bible does it say that there is NO CONDITION to going to heaven.

Please don't twist my words. I never said there are no conditions on going to heaven.

So, please focus on what I said. I said there are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life in order to never perish.

If you don't see any difference, please let me know.

It says that we are to BELIEVE in Jesus if we are to be with Him forever.
We've already gone through what believe means.

And once a person believes, they POSSESS eternal life, and they SHALL NEVER PERISH.

So you believe the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious and those who kill their fathers or mothers and murderers are going to heaven?
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you posted.

Did Jesus die for ALL sins, some sins, most sins, a few sins? What?

If He died for all sins, why would one bother bringing up ANY sins.

So, please advise on how many sins Christ died for.

 

[UberMink]

Works righteousness is a very slippery slope. If we have to remain faithful to stay saved then salvation was not a free gift of the Father's grace and his gift is then nullified by our power which would be greater than his own which called us to his Son.

Eternal salvation in my faith is everything God said of it and all that Emmanuel taught and died to affirm. Humanity was fallen prior to Christ's dying on the cross for us. We are not then more able to abrogate God's divine plan, Ephesians 1:4, as humanity just because our minds choose to let go of Christ. That would mean Christ then lets go of us. He promised that would never happen. I believe him. John 10:28

 

[Corn Pop]

A born again Christian cannot reject Christ, otherwise they would not be a born again Christian.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I'm not. Why are you assuming it doesn't have "universal recognition"? It's a literal NT in English.

They all similarly say the rich man enters Heaven. None say his does not enter Heaven or that it's impossible for a rich man to enter Heaven as your original post and continued posting do. He enters in a hard (or difficult) manner, but enter he most certainly does. In ALL translations.

Matthew 19:23 (NASB) And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.​

​

Matthew 19:23 (NIV) Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.​

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Matthew 19:23 (KJV) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.​

Obviously. Then how about the KJV, do you believe Jesus said; "that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven", or do you believe Jesus said; 'that a rich man shall not hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven'?


http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/19-23.htm

Ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν τοῖς μαθηταῖς αὐτοῦ Ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι πλούσιος δυσκόλως εἰσελεύσεται εἰς ὴν βασιλείαν τῶν οὐρανῶν

Do you believe the above original Greek Scripture above says; a rich man will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, yes or no?


Okay, that doesn't mean it's not a perfectly acceptable modern translation.


LOGOS Bible Software (a perfectly expectable if not the best Bible Study Tools company there is) publishes it. It's the most literal word for word translation available today. There is no interpretation of thoughts of the translators in it. It just takes the best available NT manuscripts and directly translates it into English almost like an interlinear does (as you can see from the interlinear posted above.

Which is why Biblegateway recommends it as a study Bible; "“Bible Gateway Recommends Disciples' Literal New Testament: Serving Modern Disciples by More Fully Reflecting the Writing Style of the Ancient Disciples”

In accordance with the ToS for CFNet, it's an acceptable translation:

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?pages/terms-of-service/​

2.7: All Bible verses and passages must be referenced (NASB, NIV, etc.) unless it ispublic domain like the KJV, YLT, etc.​

Info on copyrights here:
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"Only scripture from accepted Christian bibles will be allowed to be posted on this board"​

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Matthew 19:23-30 New International Version (NIV)

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
Chessman is it possible for a camel to enter the eye of a needle ? Yes or no. If you're relying on God's power that he can do anything, I completely agree. We can have sun for breakfast and moon for dinner. I actually believe that BUT in the present context give me a true reply . Can a camel enter the eye of a needle? Yes or no. Again we ate DIGRESSING from the main topic . Why do you think Jesus did not ask the rich man just to believe in him to get eternal life instead of all the obedience he asked him for like to keep all the Commandments and then give up his riches and then follow him and even then he doesn't say just believe in Him

 

[FreeGrace]

A born again Christian cannot reject Christ, otherwise they would not be a born again Christian.

Does this suggest that a born again Christian (there is no other kind) can be un-born? If so, please guide me to such verses that say so.

Thank.