Futurism&TheTemple

[jasoncran]

The word which futurists believe refers to a future temple in Dan 9:26, is Strongs 6944, which is usually translated as 'holy'. In this case it is clearly not a future physical temple sanctuary, but the status of Christ era Jews as a set-apart people. This status was destroyed by the rebellious actions of first century Jews. The later physical destruction of their already desolate temple was just a ratification of their spiritual decent from a holy people back into the mass of the heathen. As the iconic symbol, in their way of thinking, of their status as God's people, the temple had to go once that status was forfeit. However, Judaism's real sanctuary, the refuge which set them apart from Gentiles, had always been their status as God's People; granted by God, not built by human hands.

the jews teach this and Know this, but they believe that the moshiac will return and remove the false worship from their land. they dont believe the torah will be changed at all but restored and even to the point more clear when he comes.

but the gentile futurists and messianic jews(jews that are of isreal) seem to neglect that part. i have posted this facts to both camps here and abroad

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by JLB,

Daniel 9:26 refers to the destruction of the Physical city of Jerusalem and the Physical temple.

...And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Daniel 9:24 -27 deals with the restoration of the city and temple that was destroyed by the Babylonians, as well as the destruction of the that very same temple by the Romans and the rebuilding of the temple in verse 27 with the resuming of sacrifice and offerings.

JLB

In the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK (70th Week), Jesus PUT AN END to the sacrifices and offerings!

Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city.......

• To finish the transgression,
• To make an end of sins,
• To make reconciliation for iniquity,
• To bring in everlasting righteousness,
• To seal up vision and prophecy,
• And to anoint the Most Holy

Do you deny Jesus fulfilled the specifications listed above? He certainly DID! Of course the consummation of all things is yet future (obviously, DEATH hasn't been "swallowed up in victory", and God is not yet "ALL IN ALL"). But the above was certainly accomplished at the Cross!



Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem until the Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks."

Immediately following the 7 Weeks AND 62 Weeks (69 Weeks = 483 Years), Jesus arrived at the banks of the Jordan River where John baptized Him. Jesus began His public ministry in the Sunday Year of A.D. 27, which is the first year of the 70th Week!


Daniel 9:26 "And AFTER the sixty-two weeks, Messiah shall be cut off..."

AFTER the "7 Weeks and Sixty-Two Weeks" i.e. - the 7 Weeks were FIRST, and the 62 Weeks FOLLOWED the 7 Weeks, for a total of 69 Weeks, which is 483 years! In other words, Daniel 9:26 (above) says after the 62 Weeks (which followed the 7 Weeks) is "in total" AFTER the 69 Weeks, 483 Years - Messiah would be "cut off" after the 69 Weeks. This is true because He died in the MIDDLE OF THE 70TH WEEK, which is AFTER the 69 Weeks.


Daniel 9:27 "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK [70th Week] He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering."



Indeed. Jesus put an end to animal sacrifices and ceremonial offerings when He died on the cross, which was PRECISELY in the MIDDLE OF THE 70TH WEEK - a WEDNESDAY YEAR; AD 30!


Hebrews 9:24 "For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself."

Hebrews 9:11 "But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Hebrews 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL, having obtained eternal redemption."


Notice (above) that Jesus achieved the "specifications" given in Daniel 9:24 here in Hebrews chapter 9!


Daniel predicted Jesus' death and Jesus fulfilled Daniel's prophecy when he died in the MIDDLE of the seventieth week!


Galatians 4:4 "But when THE TIME HAD FULLY COME, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law."
Romans 5:6 "You see, AT JUST THE RIGHT TIME [the MIDDLE of the 70th Week], when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly."







Now, PLEASE answer my original question, the one you've been skillfully dodging by taking everyone on side trips:

I ask that you address EACH ONE of these passages specifically and Scripturally, and tell me how they relate to a 'future temple' and a 'future Israel':

• 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
  1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."
  
  
  [*]2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God."
  
  
  [*]1 Peter 2:5 "You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
  
  
  [*]Acts 7:47-48 "But Solomon built Him a house. However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands."
  
  
  [*]1 Corinthians 3:11 "For NO OTHER FOUNDATION CAN ANYONE LAY than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
  
  
  [*]1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building."
  
  
  [*]Hebrews 8:4-5 "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle."
  
  
  [*]Revelation 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God."

And,

• Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
  Romans 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."
  
  
  [*]Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
  Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Address each passage, one by one, and tell me what they mean, and how they relate to a 'future Temple' and a 'future Israel.' Thank you. ;)

 

[JLB]

Call it what you will. Were they gathered in Christ? Will they build in Christ?

No.

The entirety of those matters remain the futile exercises of natural blinded men engaged in natural blinded external exercises just like any other common religion.

Trying to 'stake' your 'end time' sights on them will amount to nothing.

s

You have to ask yourself this question:

Was it The Lord's will for the Nation of Israel to become a nation again in 1948?

Yes or No?

JLB

 

[jasoncran]

not really, he allowed for his purposes but well if you think only jews that are in isreal will be saved then you have some issues then.

any saved jew since the cross is ISREAL.

 

[JLB]

In the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK (70th Week), Jesus PUT AN END to the sacrifices and offerings!

Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city.......

• To finish the transgression,
• To make an end of sins,
• To make reconciliation for iniquity,
• To bring in everlasting righteousness,
• To seal up vision and prophecy,
• And to anoint the Most Holy

Do you deny Jesus fulfilled the specifications listed above? He certainly DID! Of course the consummation of all things is yet future (obviously, DEATH hasn't been "swallowed up in victory", and God is not yet "ALL IN ALL"). But the above was certainly accomplished at the Cross!



Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem until the Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks."

Immediately following the 7 Weeks AND 62 Weeks (69 Weeks = 483 Years), Jesus arrived at the banks of the Jordan River where John baptized Him. Jesus began His public ministry in the Sunday Year of A.D. 27, which is the first year of the 70th Week!


Daniel 9:26 "And AFTER the sixty-two weeks, Messiah shall be cut off..."

AFTER the "7 Weeks and Sixty-Two Weeks" i.e. - the 7 Weeks were FIRST, and the 62 Weeks FOLLOWED the 7 Weeks, for a total of 69 Weeks, which is 483 years! In other words, Daniel 9:26 (above) says after the 62 Weeks (which followed the 7 Weeks) is "in total" AFTER the 69 Weeks, 483 Years - Messiah would be "cut off" after the 69 Weeks. This is true because He died in the MIDDLE OF THE 70TH WEEK, which is AFTER the 69 Weeks.


Daniel 9:27 "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK [70th Week] He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering."



Indeed. Jesus put an end to animal sacrifices and ceremonial offerings when He died on the cross, which was PRECISELY in the MIDDLE OF THE 70TH WEEK - a WEDNESDAY YEAR; AD 30!


Hebrews 9:24 "For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself."

Hebrews 9:11 "But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Hebrews 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL, having obtained eternal redemption."


Notice (above) that Jesus achieved the "specifications" given in Daniel 9:24 here in Hebrews chapter 9!


Daniel predicted Jesus' death and Jesus fulfilled Daniel's prophecy when he died in the MIDDLE of the seventieth week!


Galatians 4:4 "But when THE TIME HAD FULLY COME, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law."
Romans 5:6 "You see, AT JUST THE RIGHT TIME [the MIDDLE of the 70th Week], when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly."







Now, PLEASE answer my original question, the one you've been skillfully dodging by taking everyone on side trips:

I ask that you address EACH ONE of these passages specifically and Scripturally, and tell me how they relate to a 'future temple' and a 'future Israel':

• 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
  1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."
  
• 2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God."
  
• 1 Peter 2:5 "You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
  
• Acts 7:47-48 "But Solomon built Him a house. However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands."
  
• 1 Corinthians 3:11 "For NO OTHER FOUNDATION CAN ANYONE LAY than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
  
• 1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building."
  
• Hebrews 8:4-5 "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle."
  
• Revelation 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God."

And,

• Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
  Romans 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."
  
• Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
  Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Address each passage, one by one, and tell me what they mean, and how they relate to a 'future Temple' and a 'future Israel.' Thank you. ;)

Key phrase:

For your people and for your holy city.......

Jesus was Crucified [Cut Off] "outside" of the 70 week time frame.

Meaning, He was crucified in between the 69th and 70th week.

The language is clear -

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

• after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off - 33 AD
  
• destroy the city and the sanctuary. - 70 AD

Verse 26 is clear in that it spans a time frame that is well beyond 7 years, yet does not include the 70th week.


That is why I say Messiah was cut off "outside" of the 70 weeks prophetic time-frame.


The language of verse 25 Messiah The Prince -

Messiah the Prince refers to the Messianic proclamation of the people when Jesus came into the city of Jerusalem, where they cried out Hosanna to the son of David, and laid palm branches down before Him. This event is celebrated even to this day as "Palm Sunday". Hosanna is a Messianic term from psalms 118 that means "save now"! The priest's were angry with the people and asked Jesus to stop them because this was a reference to be made to YHWH.
9 Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying: "Hosanna to the Son of David! 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!' Hosanna in the highest!" 10 And when He had come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, "Who is this?" 11 So the multitudes said, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth of Galilee." Matthew 21:9-11
Jesus said if these people don't praise me the stones will cry out.

This was the prophecy from Daniel being fulfilled and nothing in heaven or on earth was going to stop it from coming to pass!

Psalm 118:21-26
21 I will praise You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. 23 This was the Lord's doing; It is marvelous in our eyes. 24 This is the day the Lord has made; We will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I pray, O Lord; O Lord, I pray, send now prosperity. 26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! We have blessed you from the house of the Lord.

This event marked the end of the 69th week!

Five days later, after the 69th week, Messiah was "cut off" on Passover.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

Messiah The Prince is the reference to - Hosanna to the son of David.

Daniel predicted Jesus' death and Jesus fulfilled Daniel's prophecy when he died in the MIDDLE of the seventieth week!

Clearly from scripture the 70th week is "after" 70 AD!


JLB

 

[JLB]

Originally Posted by Osgiliath
Indeed. You and I certainly see this in the same way. It is God who blinds them:


Matthew 13:11 "He answered and said to them, 'Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.'"

2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

Ezekiel 14:9 "And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet"



God blinds those who "think they see":

John 9:39 "And Jesus said, '"For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who think they see may be made blind.'"


Paul gives us a closer look regarding this "God given" blindness:

1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Concerning Matthew 13 Jesus said -

12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

What is it one must have in order for God to give him more?

JLB

 

[smaller]

You have to ask yourself this question:

Was it The Lord's will for the Nation of Israel to become a nation again in 1948?

Yes or No?

JLB

I'm in the 'everything that happens is of God' camp.

As it pertains to eschatology though, I wouldn't give a nickel for your view.

One line is more than enough reba
s

 

[JLB]

I'm in the 'everything that happens is of God' camp.

As it pertains to eschatology though, I wouldn't give a nickel for your view.


s

I wouldn't take an end time novel if you gave it to me.

But as for you, you can't even answer a simple one line sentence with a yes or no.

So your perception of truth is distorted at best.

EDIT


JLB

 

[smaller]

I wouldn't take an end time novel if you gave it to me.

But as for you, you can't even answer a simple one line sentence with a yes or no.

So your perception of truth is distorted at best.

EDIT


JLB

It was answered. Might not be exactly as you wanted to hear.

The modern temple rebuilding theory has been in the christian end time novel scene for quite awhile and is one of the most common views.

And fwiw, spiritual understandings and correlations are legitimate avenues of understandings.

Here is the House under construction, and it is thee ONLY ONE Jesus cares about:

1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

It is also this HOUSE that Jesus builds:

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

If you happen to see Jesus strap on a carpenters apron and start building in Jerusalem, give a hollar.

The terms Israel, Jersalem, Temple are ALL changed in spiritual correlations.

Current Jerusalem, spiritually speaking, is defined as such:

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

I doubt very much Jesus has any interest in building His Temple in Sodom and Egypt.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Here we see the 'decent' of that Temple:

Rev. 21
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

s

 

[JLB]

It was answered. Might not be exactly as you wanted to hear.

The modern temple rebuilding theory has been in the christian end time novel scene for quite awhile and is one of the most common views.

And fwiw, spiritual understandings and correlations are legitimate avenues of understandings.

Here is the House under construction, and it is thee ONLY ONE Jesus cares about:

1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

It is also this HOUSE that Jesus builds:

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

If you happen to see Jesus strap on a carpenters apron and start building in Jerusalem, give a hollar.

The terms Israel, Jersalem, Temple are ALL changed in spiritual correlations.

Current Jerusalem, spiritually speaking, is defined as such:

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

I doubt very much Jesus has any interest in building His Temple in Sodom and Egypt.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Here we see the 'decent' of that Temple:

Rev. 21
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

s

Originally Posted by smaller
There is a natural course in the text and there is a spiritual course in the same text.

Where there is violence in the city, these God will divide and destroy.

Psalm 55:9
Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues: for I have seen violence and strife in the city.

I take it you are not going to answer my question with a direct answer.

Let's try it again.

Do you believe the city of Jerusalem and the temple there were destroyed in 70 AD?

Yes or No?

If yes, Do you believe Daniel 9:26, And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, was a prophecy of that event?

Yes or No?

It was answered. Might not be exactly as you wanted to hear.

not exactly as I wanted to hear?

I gave you a yes or no option and you chose not to answer at all.

Yet,in your mind, you answered.

Your doctrine is the same, you "think" you are being very spiritual, yet in reality nothing you say makes any sense!

God bless you, JLB

 

[smaller]

I take it you are not going to answer my question with a direct answer.

Let's try it again.

Do you believe the city of Jerusalem and the temple there were destroyed in 70 AD?

Already addressed. No sense arguing with that historical fact.

Also pointed out there was also another Temple destroyed as well.

If yes, Do you believe Daniel 9:26, And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, was a prophecy of that event?

Of which temple/Temple?

You passed on this one the first time I asked.

I gave you a yes or no option and you chose not to answer at all.

I was certainly trying to engage a legitimate dialog. But to say that the destruction of Jesus Christ was not in view in that matter would not be accurate would it?

Why the press to only look at the temporal temple?

Yet, in your mind, you answered.

Uh, no, I'm not given to forced sets. There actually were TWO TEMPLES destroyed in VERY close proximity on the time charts.

Should we force fit only one to suit your views?

Your doctrine is the same, you "think" you are being very spiritual, yet in reality nothing you say makes any sense!

The Spiritual Temple came into the Natural temple.

They were BOTH destroyed.

What's yer point?

If you are incapable of seeing these matters just say so.

s

 

[JLB]

Already addressed. No sense arguing with that historical fact.

Also pointed out there was also another Temple destroyed as well.


Of which temple/Temple?

You passed on this one the first time I asked.



I was certainly trying to engage a legitimate dialog. But to say that the destruction of Jesus Christ was not in view in that matter would not be accurate would it?

Why the press to only look at the temporal temple?



Uh, no, I'm not given to forced sets. There actually were TWO TEMPLES destroyed in VERY close proximity on the time charts.

Should we force fit only one to suit your views?



The Spiritual Temple came into the Natural temple.

They were BOTH destroyed.

What's yer point?

If you are incapable of seeing these matters just say so.

s

There actually were TWO TEMPLES destroyed in VERY close proximity on the time charts.

Jesus was crucified in 33 Ad.

The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

Very close proximity on the time charts?

Must be a special spiritual time you are using. :shades


JLB

 

[smaller]

Jesus was crucified in 33 Ad.

The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

Very close proximity on the time charts?

Must be a special spiritual time you are using. :shades

JLB

The observation was of TWO temples.

Sorry you missed it.

s

 

[JLB]

In the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK (70th Week), Jesus PUT AN END to the sacrifices and offerings!

Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city.......

• To finish the transgression,
• To make an end of sins,
• To make reconciliation for iniquity,
• To bring in everlasting righteousness,
• To seal up vision and prophecy,
• And to anoint the Most Holy

Do you deny Jesus fulfilled the specifications listed above? He certainly DID! Of course the consummation of all things is yet future (obviously, DEATH hasn't been "swallowed up in victory", and God is not yet "ALL IN ALL"). But the above was certainly accomplished at the Cross!



Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem until the Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks."

Immediately following the 7 Weeks AND 62 Weeks (69 Weeks = 483 Years), Jesus arrived at the banks of the Jordan River where John baptized Him. Jesus began His public ministry in the Sunday Year of A.D. 27, which is the first year of the 70th Week!


Daniel 9:26 "And AFTER the sixty-two weeks, Messiah shall be cut off..."

AFTER the "7 Weeks and Sixty-Two Weeks" i.e. - the 7 Weeks were FIRST, and the 62 Weeks FOLLOWED the 7 Weeks, for a total of 69 Weeks, which is 483 years! In other words, Daniel 9:26 (above) says after the 62 Weeks (which followed the 7 Weeks) is "in total" AFTER the 69 Weeks, 483 Years - Messiah would be "cut off" after the 69 Weeks. This is true because He died in the MIDDLE OF THE 70TH WEEK, which is AFTER the 69 Weeks.


Daniel 9:27 "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK [70th Week] He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering."



Indeed. Jesus put an end to animal sacrifices and ceremonial offerings when He died on the cross, which was PRECISELY in the MIDDLE OF THE 70TH WEEK - a WEDNESDAY YEAR; AD 30!


Hebrews 9:24 "For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself."

Hebrews 9:11 "But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Hebrews 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL, having obtained eternal redemption."


Notice (above) that Jesus achieved the "specifications" given in Daniel 9:24 here in Hebrews chapter 9!


Daniel predicted Jesus' death and Jesus fulfilled Daniel's prophecy when he died in the MIDDLE of the seventieth week!


Galatians 4:4 "But when THE TIME HAD FULLY COME, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law."
Romans 5:6 "You see, AT JUST THE RIGHT TIME [the MIDDLE of the 70th Week], when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly."







Now, PLEASE answer my original question, the one you've been skillfully dodging by taking everyone on side trips:

I ask that you address EACH ONE of these passages specifically and Scripturally, and tell me how they relate to a 'future temple' and a 'future Israel':

• 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
  1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."
  
• 2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God."
  
• 1 Peter 2:5 "You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
  
• Acts 7:47-48 "But Solomon built Him a house. However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands."
  
• 1 Corinthians 3:11 "For NO OTHER FOUNDATION CAN ANYONE LAY than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
  
• 1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building."
  
• Hebrews 8:4-5 "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle."
  
• Revelation 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God."

And,

• Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
  Romans 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."
  
• Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
  Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Address each passage, one by one, and tell me what they mean, and how they relate to a 'future Temple' and a 'future Israel.' Thank you. ;)

Daniel 9:26-27

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.


And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The people who destroyed the city and sanctuary were the Romans!

The prince who is to come, is therefore Roman.

Was Jesus a Roman?


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

• Did Jesus "confirm" an existing covenant with many for a seven year period? No!

• The "he" in verse 27 is referring to the last person mentioned which was in verse 26, "the prince who is to come".

• The abomination of desolation in v. 27 is associated with the bringing to an end of sacrifice and offerings and the confirming of a seven year covenant. Jesus had nothing to do with any of those events!

After Jesus' death and resurrection we see recorded in the book of Acts, a man sent by Jesus Christ and confirmed by God, by signs ,wonders and miracles who also wrote 2/3's of the New Testament as inspired by The Holy Spirit, participate in offerings prescribed under the law, of which you say Jesus Christ put an end to.


23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality." 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them. Acts 21:23-26




The fact is the scripture says -



But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.


Jesus did not bring an end to sacrifice and offering, they continued for almost 40 years, until the temple was destroyed.


The time of "everlasting righteous" has not come yet, Jesus Christ will usher in this time of everlasting righteousness when He returns,
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:24



Daniel writes of a 3 1/2 year period that is clearly associated with the language Jesus used in Matthew 24:15.


"How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" 7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. Daniel 12:7.11


The temple is about to be rebuilt. Sacrifice and offerings will commence again, according to the scriptures.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.



Jesus Himself will destroy this lawless one with the brightness of His coming.




JLB

 

[reba]

JLB do you believe the temple to be built is/will be holy?

yes or no answer would be explanatory thanks.

 

[JLB]

JLB do you believe the temple to be built is/will be holy?

yes or no answer would be explanatory thanks.

You and I both know that Jesus Christ was the final blood sacrifice "once and for all".

My initial answer to you would be no I don't believe the temple will be holy.

The reason I say no, is because I just can't believe the Jews, through whom came the scriptures and The Messiah, could ever conceive of building another temple... however I know my response is soulish and probably wrong.

Wrong for two reasons.

1. The temple will be built during Daniel's 70th week which was prophesied to come to pass.
2. The language "abomination of Desolation", lends itself to the idea that for the temple to become "desolate" through the "abomination" being set up, then it must be holy to begin with.

Sorry for not giving you a simple yes or no.


I wanted you to hear my heart because I know how frustrated you get with this whole temple thing.

Thanks, JLB

 

[reba]

Thank you for your answer and a direct one.

The way i see it the temple you are hoping will be built can not have a holy place, as God will not be there. God is not there, it is not holy, how can it be desecrated ?

 

[Hitch]

You and I both know that Jesus Christ was the final blood sacrifice "once and for all".

My initial answer to you would be no I don't believe the temple will be holy.

The reason I say no, is because I just can't believe the Jews, through whom came the scriptures and The Messiah, could ever conceive of building another temple... however I know my response is soulish and probably wrong.

Wrong for two reasons.

1. The temple will be built during Daniel's 70th week which was prophesied to come to pass.

1. I keep missing this part can you post the quote ?

[

 

[JLB]

Thank you for your answer and a direct one.

The way i see it the temple you are hoping will be built can not have a holy place, as God will not be there. God is not there, it is not holy, how can it be desecrated ?

I'm not hoping for a temple to be built.

I just choose not to ignore what I see in the scriptures.

The way i see it the temple you are hoping will be built can not have a holy place,

What you see is opposed to what Jesus taught us concerning this matter.


15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15


JLB

 

[Hitch]

I'm not hoping for a temple to be built.

I just choose not to ignore what I see in the scriptures.

What you see is opposed to what Jesus taught us concerning this matter.


15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15


JLB

Good, you have circled back to the OP;


Should the predictions of yet another temple be correct it should not be too much to ask wrt the WHY... What reason would God have in restoring the temple?