Is baptismal regeneration biblical?

[FreeGrace]

Well, Jesus teaches us the truth: He who believes and is baptized will be saved;

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16
JLB

Please invest in a study Bible. You'll learn that Mark 16:9-20 (end of chapter) isn't found in ANY of the earliest manuscripts. It was obviously added later. Therefore, NOT inspired. But go ahead, if you think so, and handle some poisonous snakes and drink some poison and see what happens.

 

[dirtfarmer]

There are different scriptures that deal with being Baptized in to Christ.

• 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3-4

• were baptized into Christ Jesus [the body of Christ] were baptized into His death

This is a reference to water baptism.

13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

• by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body [the body of Christ]

To me this speaks of being born again, in which we are baptized into Christ Jesus, [The body of Christ] by the Spirit.


Acts 19 uses similar language, about being baptized


And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:1-6

• When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

To me this is when they were "born again" in which they were baptized by the Spirit into Christ. [The body of Christ]


Acts 10 uses the same language, [baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus], but meaning water baptism

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.Acts 10:44-48

• “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Acts 8 also refers to baptism in the name of the Lord to refer to water baptism.

14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:14-17

• For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

The Point:

• Acts 8:16 - Baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus = Water baptism
• Acts 10:48 - he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. = Water Baptism
• Acts 19:5 - When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. = Born again; Baptized into the body
• Romans 6:3 - were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? = Water Baptism
• 1 Corinthians 10:2 - all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea = Born again; Baptized into the body of Christ

Cherry picking some scriptures while ignoring others is how many are able to promote unbiblical doctrines.

• 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16

• 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:19-20

• 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins

Peter also says

20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1 Peter 3:20-21


3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3-4

• I would never teach anyone to ignore water baptism, Spirit baptism or being born again and baptized into Christ.

The Lord gave them to us for a reason, and I don't believe we understand the fullness of the reason for all three and I would never want to minimize any of them.


Can a person be saved, on their death bed or car wreck or otherwise, without water baptism?

I believe they can.


However I would never teach someone to ignore water baptism.



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

In your refernce to Romans 6:3-4, should not verse 2 also be included? It is stated, " How shall we that are dead to sin, live any
longer therein? Is it water baptism that brings about our death to sin or is it the baptism of the Spirit that brings about death to sin? Is water baptism the vehicle that brings about our death to the old man? Can verse 4 be used to prove that water baptism is the vehicle by which death occurs, or is it when we are baptized by the Spirit? It is my belief that our spirit is "divided' from our soul and made conscieous of God the moment we believe.

As to 1 Corinthians 12:13, the vehicle that "places" (baptizes) in the one body is the Spirit, not water.

With the exception of Romans 6 and 1 Corinthians 12, your belief is based on transitional scripture from law to grace, and on scripture written by an apostle to the circumcision and not by the Apostle Paul, who was the apostle to "the uncircumcision".

It seems as if you are implying with your last 3 sentences that without water baptism there is no salvation except in rare circumstances. Would this not be "baptismal(water)salvation"?

 

[chessman]

Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Did Peter say to water baptize them (Gentiles) before or after they had received the Holy Spirit "just as we (Jews) have"?

This is a reference to water baptism.

Romans 6:3-4 Or do you not know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried-with Him through baptism into death in order that just as Christ arose from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk in newness of life.​

So passages that never even mention "water" and that came from someone saying "I give-thanks to God that I baptized none of you"is a reference to 'water baptism'?

Acts 8 also refers to baptism in the name of the Lord to refer to water baptism.

Acts 8:13 Now Simon himself also believed. And having been baptized, he was attaching-himself to Philip. He was astonished, seeing both signs and great miracles taking place.​

Is this referring to 'water baptism', to your understanding and teaching?

 

[Mike]

To all participants, this topic tends to get volitile. This discussion started out very well. Kudos to Oz for that. It's started to head south with personal remarks. Please take care not to do that to your brothers and sisters.

 

[JLB]

Did Peter say to water baptize them (Gentiles) before or after they had received the Holy Spirit "just as we (Jews) have"?

After they received the Holy Spirit.

Which means it was not to be disregarded or ignored as irrelevant.

 

[JLB]

So passages that never even mention "water" and that came from someone saying "I give-thanks to God that I baptized none of you"is a reference to 'water baptism'?

Where does Romans 6:3-4 say those words?

 

[JLB]

Is it water baptism that brings about our death to sin or is it the baptism of the Spirit that brings about death to sin? I

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4

Going down into the water signifies our being buried with Him in death, and out coming up from the water signifies our being raised from the dead, so that we are dead to our old life and alive to Christ, so that we should walk in the newness of life.

Romans 6:1-4 refers to water baptism.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Please invest in a study Bible. You'll learn that Mark 16:9-20 (end of chapter) isn't found in ANY of the earliest manuscripts. It was obviously added later. Therefore, NOT inspired. But go ahead, if you think so, and handle some poisonous snakes and drink some poison and see what happens.

Have you been Baptised in water?


JLB

 

[JLB]

One can only be baptized by their own choice by being immersed in literal water. The baptism of the Spirit is God's choice. Not ours.

Your teaching is in serious error.


I've already explained 1 Cor 10. Where are your answers to my questions and requests for explanations of why the Egyptian soldiers DIED from being IMMERSED in water, while Paul described the Exodus generation as being "baptized in the sea" even though they STAYED DRY??

While I recognize no poster is required to answer any question, lack of specific answers only weakens one's position.

Thanks for your opinion.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I know what was posted. Which is why I responded.


I never said otherwise. Wasn't my post even read???


Define what "this water" refers to.
Since it's clear your view that the baptism that "now saves you" is [water baptism], you've created a problem The water of Noah's day KILLED all of humanity, save 8 persons, all of whom were in the ark, and SAVED FROM WATER.


Again, this is silly. Water is NEVER a symbol of water. Water actually IS water. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Thanks for your opinion. :yes

 

[FreeGrace]

After they received the Holy Spirit.

Which means it was not to be disregarded or ignored as irrelevant.

So far, no one has even hinted that water baptism is to be disregarded or ignored as irrelevant.

The topic is baptismal regeneration. While it's been shown that baptism isn't a requirement for regeneration, it is an act of obedience AFTER one has been born again.

 

[FreeGrace]

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4

Going down into the water signifies our being buried with Him in death, and out coming up from the water signifies our being raised from the dead, so that we are dead to our old life and alive to Christ, so that we should walk in the newness of life.

Romans 6:1-4 refers to water baptism.

No, as Peter plainly explained in 1 Pet 3:20-21, water baptism is a symbol of the baptism that saves us, which is Holy Spirit baptism.

No where does the Bible say that water baptism saves anyone. The Bible does say that water baptism will take the dirt off our skin though.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Please invest in a study Bible. You'll learn that Mark 16:9-20 (end of chapter) isn't found in ANY of the earliest manuscripts. It was obviously added later. Therefore, NOT inspired. But go ahead, if you think so, and handle some poisonous snakes and drink some poison and see what happens."

I'm wondering why someone would find it funny (hilarious) that their views are based on uninspired words added later to what Mark wrote.

Have you been Baptised in water?

Yes.

Years after I believed in Jesus Christ and received eternal life and was promised that I'd never perish.

 

[FreeGrace]

Thanks for your opinion. :yes

Which hasn't been refuted by any Scripture yet.

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"Please invest in a study Bible. You'll learn that Mark 16:9-20 (end of chapter) isn't found in ANY of the earliest manuscripts. It was obviously added later. Therefore, NOT inspired. But go ahead, if you think so, and handle some poisonous snakes and drink some poison and see what happens."

Yes and I said this.

Its hilarious that your only answer to scripture, is to claim it's not really scripture.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Which hasn't been refuted by any Scripture yet.

It's just your opinion with no scripture as usual.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes.

Years after I believed in Jesus Christ and received eternal life and was promised that I'd never perish.

If you have been baptized in water then why do you teach its not necessary?


JLB

 

[JLB]

"Please invest in a study Bible. You'll learn that Mark 16:9-20 (end of chapter) isn't found in ANY of the earliest manuscripts

I read and studied Mark 16, and verse 15-16 are in my bible.

When you say "invest in a bible study", do you mean purchase some commentary that tells you Mark 16:9-20 isn't really scripture?



Did you ever stop to wonder why those signs followed believers in the New Testament scriptures?

Try investing in studying the Bible itself, rather than pay for man's opinion.

Is that why your posts just have opinion?



JLB

 

[new covenant preacher]

Please note this is not an accusation against anyone in particular.

To deny the power of Christ is to make the false claim that we are Born Again.
If one is truly born again then it is impossible to be taught of the Spirit, (which is what happens when this Spiritual re-birth occurs) and also be taught of men that bring forth damnable heresies.

2 Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


We all need to allow the true light of our Savior and Lord to shine in us, exposing our sin and deception. If we, however, hold on to any part of that sin nature, the darkness in us will prevent the light from shining through.


Matt 25:29-30 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Be careful therefore how you interpret the Word of God. To those who have the Spirit of God and are born again, much more spiritual understanding will be given. But those who do not have the truth and are not born again, from them shall be taken even that which they believe to have because it represents a lie.

Can the claim of being born again be true, if we are unable to understand the fundamental doctrine of Christianity regarding our Salvation and when it occurs.


It is the Comforter that Christ sent that teaches us all things and prevents us from following the deceptive doctrines of men. Far too many confuse the tingling sensation they experience from an entertaining well orchestrated cinematic like production, at a building called the church, with that of the infilling of the Holy Spirit that comes upon the members of the church.


If any man does not have the Spirit of Christ or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, he can not be of Christ. We must be transformed by Christ to put on the Mind of Christ.


1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Our Lord said, “the words that I speak they are Spirit and they are Life” (John 6:63). The teachings of Jesus Christ can only be understood when His Spirit dwells within us. When this transformation occurs then the claim of becoming born again is real.


We are to seek after the kingdom of God and His righteousness, in a continual and diligent manner, without ceasing. The reward that we seek should be that of our Redemption and Salvation upon our Lord’s return, not the deceitfulness of riches (Matt 6:20-24, 33, 13:22, Rom 8:23, Eph 1:13-14).


John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


Do we not, therefore, deny the power of Christ when we proclaim that we have already received our Salvation? If you are forever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, can you truly claim to have received the Spirit of truth (2 Tim 3:7).


Until you are born again it is impossible to have a personal and intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. Once this new Spiritual birth occurs deceptive doctrines are easily observed and avoided.

Because very few even understand what it means to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, the great deception within Christianity does indeed flourish.


The very first warning Jesus gives us regarding the last days is to ensure that you are not deceived (Luke 21:8).


Eph 4:30-31 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and blasphemy, be put away from you, with all malice:


Mark 7:9 Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

The earnest (which is a down payment) of our inheritance with Christ, is that we are sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. The fulfillment of this contract is our redemption which is realized when Christ returns with our Salvation (Eph 1:13-14, Heb 9:28, 1 Peter 1:5).


2 Cor 1:21-22 Now he which establishes us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.


And then shall the Son of man appear, and when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption is near (Luke 21:27-28).


Those in Christ Jesus that are led by the Spirit of God, are the Sons of God (Rom 8:14).


We are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, in order that we may have fellowship with Christ through the Spirit (1 Cor 1:9; Eph 3:5-12; Phl 2:1).


Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[OzSpen]

Hi Oz.

My views on baptism are formed from 2 passages. The first one is 1 Cor 1:
14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.
16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

What I hear Paul saying is that, as an evangelist, his sole purpose was to preach the gospel, which is the only way one can be saved; to hear and believe it. He clearly minimized water baptism in v.14-16. If salvation were dependent upon water baptism along with faith in Christ, it seems he would have emphasized, not de-emphasized, water baptism. And made some direct statements as to the necessity of being water baptized for salvation. Yet, he didn't.

The second one is in 1 Pet 3:
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

In v.20, Peter speaks of Noah being "saved through water". It should be obvious that the water didn't save Noah, his family, or any animals. They were, in fact, saved FROM the water. Or they would have drowned IN the water.

Then, he states clearly in v.21 that "this water", being a reference to literal water (as in the flood of Noah's time), is a symbol of the baptism that saves us. So, water baptism is a symbol of the real (dry) baptism that saves. So, what is this real baptism? It can only be the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Peter further clarifies his point by adding "not the removal of dirt from the body". This is clearly a reference to literal water. And he says "NOT the removal of dirt". iow, it's NOT water baptism that saves us. That's just a symbol. It's the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves.

John the baptizer said this about the Savior:
Matt 3:11- "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire

John used literal water for baptism. Jesus used the Holy Spirit, the source of our regeneration/salvation.

FreeGrace,

I find that to be an excellent exposition the rejects baptismal regeneration.

There is one point I'd question (not disagree with) and that is your statement:

Peter further clarifies his point by adding "not the removal of dirt from the body". This is clearly a reference to literal water. And he says "NOT the removal of dirt". iow, it's NOT water baptism that saves us. That's just a symbol. It's the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves.

Here you refer to 1 Peter 3:21. The reason I question this is because of this verse:

'We were all baptized by one Holy Spirit into one body. It didn't matter whether we were Jews or Greeks, slaves or free people. We were all given the same Spirit to drink' (1 Cor 12:13 NIRV).​

Seems that this refers to the Holy Spirit baptising Christians into the body of Christ at salvation - no matter what our cultural background. The baptism of the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost (Acts 2). I appreciate that both 1 Peter and 1 Cor were written after the Day of Pentecost.

Congratulations on an excellent post and especially your explanations. ed

Oz