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Is baptismal regeneration biblical?

To my comment: "God used a created thing to save mankind when he used Jesus human body as a sacrifice for our sins."
Who told you that?
Are you unaware that Jesus body was totally human?
Are you unaware the a human being is a created being?
Are you not aware that Jesus of Nazareth was both the eternal Logos/God and the flesh and blood human being born of Mary?
1 Corinthians 15:50 But I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor can corruption inherit incorruptibility.
Do human bodies have flesh and blood?
Is Jesus flesh and blood?
Does Jesus have a body of flesh?
Did his body bleed real blood when he was crucified?
He (His resurrection body that's with the Father) is the propitiation for our sins.
Was His resurrected body crucified?
Was He crucified after he was resurrected?
Or was He crucified first and did HE die first as a propitiation for our sins AND THEN was resurrected.
Rom 4:25
(Jesus Christ) who was delivered up because of our offenses,
and was raised because of our justification.

Rom 3:23-25
... all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood,

When did Jesus shed His blood, during the crucifixion or after the resurrection?

Take your time and get help if you need it. (You probably should get help.)
 
When I asked you at least twice what you think water baptism is necessary for, you didn't answer. But if this ⬇️ is your answer, I have another question relative to what occurred in Acts 8 to Simon after his public confession (water baptism) but prior to his Spiritual baptism.

Neccesary for public confession.

Was he making a public confession of his salvation through Jesus Christ by being water baptized?
 
Was he making a public confession of his salvation through Jesus Christ by being water baptized?


What else is water baptism necessary for?

Here in Romans 6 Paul says it is necessary for being baptized into Christ, both into His death and resurrection.

3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:3-4


JLB
 
1 Peter 3:21 says zero about 'water baptism' saving us. If you cannot make a Biblical case, just insert your own, I guess.
In fact, Peter was very clear about the fact that water does NOT save us in that verse:
"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

The phrase "NOT the removal of dirt" is a direct reference to literal (wet) water. The words "this water" is literal wet water, which is a symbol of the baptism (note that water is NOT mentioned in reference to "this water").

iow, literal water is a symbol of the real and dry baptism that saves us.

Going back to Noah's flood, he was saved, not BY water, but through water. The literal water never touched him, but it surely did touch every human being outside the ark. They were dunked, for sure. And all died, for sure.

So, who got the literal water dunk (baptism)? The rest of humanity. And they died.

We see the same principle in 1 Cor 10 where Paul spoke of the Exodus generation being baptized INTO Moses and in the sea.

If every reference to baptism demands water, how in the world can anyone be immersed INTO Moses? That is just nonsense.

Further, being baptized "in the sea" again was WITHOUT any literal water. They walked across the Red Sea on DRY GROUND.

So, who was dunked in the sea (water baptism)? The Egyptian army. And they all died.

So the Bible gives us 2 examples of being immersed in water that led to DEATH, not life.

The core meaning of 'baptize' is "identification". The word was used of immersing a cloth into a dye in order to change the color of the cloth. So the cloth became identified with a different color. iow, the point of immersing cloth into dye was to identify the cloth with a different color.

So, the real and dry baptisms of the Bible are identifications. When Jesus was water baptised by John, He was being identified with the Father's plan for Him. The water immersion was a SYMBOL of this identification. All the water did was get Him wet. Nothing more. It was SYMBOLIC of being identified with the Father.

Our salvation includes the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which places us in union with Christ (Eph 1:13), and is a real identification with God the Father. No water is involved. When the believer receives water (immersion) baptism, this is an identification as a child of God.

Here are links to articles that describe the 7 baptisms of the Bible:
https://www.gotquestions.org/seven-baptisms.html
http://www.born-again-christian.info/baptisms.htm

Peter says the complete opposite, in fact. The removal of dirt from the flesh does NOT save us. An appeal to God recognizing the resurrection of Jesus Christ saves us. No exceptions. Including the one thief on the cross.

1 Peter 3:21 And also, corresponding to this, ___?__ baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Israel pased through the sea on dry ground.

Exodus 14:21-22 And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and Yahweh moved the sea with a strong east wind all night, and he made the sea become dry ground, and the waters were divided. And the Israelites entered the middle of the sea on the dry land. The waters were a wall for them on their right and on their left.​


Who told you that?

1 Corinthians 15:50 But I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor can corruption inherit incorruptibility.

Do human bodies have flesh and blood?

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, I am writing these things to you in order that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one, and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

He (His resurrection body that's with the Father) is the propitiation for our sins.


No it hasn't. The church and Peter in his first letter taught "baptism" saves us, not 'water baptism'. You insert water into a verse where Peter specifically says the washing of the flesh does NOT save us and used the passing of Israel on dry ground to prove his point.


Was the fact that God parted the sea before Israel passed through it on dry ground not relevant too?
Exactly!
 
I said this, and a lot more that has been left out:
"1 Cor 1:14, but Paul didn't add "to God". But he was thankful that he didn't baptize any of them except Crispus and Gaius."
Because of the division that was taking place among these Gentile believers.

Paul didn't want them to think he was baptizing in his own name.
It makes no sense to de-emphasize water baptism if water baptism is necessary for salvation. That's the point.

I challenge anyone who thinks water baptism is necessary for salvation to carefully read through Acts and write down every instance of people coming to faith and count the # of times baptism is mentioned.

What you'll find is that belief alone occurs 23 times, and belief with baptism occurs just 9 times.

If salvation required water baptism, that would have required every instance to mention water baptism. Not just some of them.
 
Once again, the misreading bug has bit. I never said what is being claimed.
Wanna bet? From your own post #58:
I said this:
"Please invest in a study Bible. You'll learn that Mark 16:9-20 (end of chapter) isn't found in ANY of the earliest manuscripts

Your response:
"I read and studied Mark 16, and verse 15-16 are in my bible.

When you say "invest in a bible study", do you mean purchase some commentary that tells you Mark 16:9-20 isn't really scripture?
So, there it is, in RED and white. So you DID say what I claimed you said. I never said "invest in a bible study" as you claimed. So don't try to shift the misreading to me.

And I continue to be amazed at this bold denial of truth.

I suggested that you invest in a study Bible. They have added notes along the margins, for, you know, studying. Cross references, etc.
This was my statement, but shows up in your post as from you. Don't plagiarize.

However, Mark 16:9-20 does NOT appear in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts.

So, you are free to ignore that to your own peril. And accept what some scribe added to Scripture later.

I believe that's called "opinion", something you've shown disdain for. So why accept the opinion of some obscure scribe?
 
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It makes no sense to de-emphasize water baptism if water baptism is necessary for salvation. That's the point.


Paul did not de-emphasize water baptism in any size, shape of form.

Paul emphasized that he was glad the he himself did not water baptize many people, because of the people being divided, into following Paul thinking they were baptized in the name of Paul.

That is the point Paul made in 1 Corinthians 1:14-15


14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.
1 Corinthians 1:14-15

Here it is in plain and clear words: lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.


If you are not going to post the scripture with the actual language that the scriptures use, to make your point, then I will not address your questions or your post's.


JLB
 
I said this:
"To demonstrate my faith publicly. Why else?

btw, where did I ever even suggest that water baptism wasn't necessary?

Define what is meant by "necessary" so I can properly respond to your false charge."
Neccesary for public confession.

Why else?
Which is what I said. To demonstrate one's faith publicly is a public confession. Which does NOT save anyone.

So, water baptism doesn't save anyone. It's a public confession of one's faith, which DOES save.
 
I said this:
"Please invest in a study Bible. You'll learn that Mark 16:9-20 (end of chapter) isn't found in ANY of the earliest manuscripts

If you want to teach people to ignore Mark 16:16-18, because it is "not really scripture", then that will be for you to explain to Jesus Christ, on the Day of Judgement.

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:16-18


JLB
 
1Pe 3:20b-21 (RSV) ...in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
That says that passing through water by Noah and his family corresponds to (is the archetype of) believers being baptized in water.
If you cannot see that it is because of a serious deficiency in your reading comprehension skills.


Again, your inability to comprehend what you read has led you to a totally incorrect conclusion.

Baptism, which corresponds to this,
Corresponds to what?

Answer: to passing through water.

Please be aware that they passed through water without getting wet, or being immersed. The one who were actually and literally immersed in water DIED. All of them. Noah and the 7 were saved in fact FROM drowning in the water because of the ark.

This clearly shows that water immersion doesn't save. It kills. Same for the Egyptian soldiers who also were immersed in the Red Sea, while the Jews crossed the Red Sea on dry ground, yet Paul says they were baptised INTO Moses and in the sea. No water in either of thoe baptisms.
 
I said this:
"To demonstrate my faith publicly. Why else?

btw, where did I ever even suggest that water baptism wasn't necessary?

Define what is meant by "necessary" so I can properly respond to your false charge."

He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16


Freegrace, Is water baptism necessary for anything biblical?




JLB
 
Paul did not de-emphasize water baptism in any size, shape of form.
1 Cor 1 is clear enough for all to understand.

Paul emphasized that he was glad the he himself did not water baptize many people, because of the people being divided, into following Paul thinking they were baptized in the name of Paul.

That is the point Paul made in 1 Corinthians 1:14-15


14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.
1 Corinthians 1:14-15

Here it is in plain and clear words: lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.


If you are not going to post the scripture with the actual language that the scriptures use, to make your point, then I will not address your questions or your post's.
Having finally admitted that water baptism is necessary for public confession, why still seem to argue for the necessity of water baptism for salvation? What's the point in that?
 
JLB said:
Sorry you don't understand what I said.

It's quite sad that he wasn't even willing to resolve the problem.


There is no problem, with me, because I believe we are to be baptized, and because I believe we are to be baptized, I obey and have been baptized.

In addition, I teach people who ask, that they should be baptized as well, to be obedient to the Lord and those He sent.


JLB
 
If you want to teach people to ignore Mark 16:16-18, because it is "not really scripture", then that will be for you to explain to Jesus Christ, on the Day of Judgement.

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:16-18
JLB
Since these verses are NOT in the earliest manuscripts, there is no reason to accept the opinion of some obscure scribe who added his own thoughts to inspired Scripture.

Do you accept the opinion of this obscure scribe as being inspired by God to add to what was already writtten?

For some reason, I have doubts that I'll receive any answer to this.
 
1 Cor 1 is clear enough for all to understand.

Having finally admitted that water baptism is necessary for public confession, why still seem to argue for the necessity of water baptism for salvation? What's the point in that?

32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:32-33


JLB
 
I said this:
"To demonstrate my faith publicly. Why else?

btw, where did I ever even suggest that water baptism wasn't necessary?

Define what is meant by "necessary" so I can properly respond to your false charge."
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16
Opinion from some obscure scribe. Not inspired by God.

Freegrace, Is water baptism necessary for anything biblical?
I've already indicated what it is necessary for. Please read my posts before asking unnecessary questions.

btw, I notice you didn't provide a definition of what is meant by "necessary".

So, I'll ask again: necessary FOR WHAT, specifically?
 
32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:32-33


JLB
So, is this your assumed "ticket to heaven" then?
 
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