Jim Parker
Member
...the crux of the problem...Sorry you don't understand what I said.
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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...the crux of the problem...Sorry you don't understand what I said.
Are you unaware that Jesus body was totally human?Who told you that?
1 Corinthians 15:50 But I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor can corruption inherit incorruptibility.
Is Jesus flesh and blood?Do human bodies have flesh and blood?
Was His resurrected body crucified?He (His resurrection body that's with the Father) is the propitiation for our sins.
Neccesary for public confession.
Was he making a public confession of his salvation through Jesus Christ by being water baptized?
In fact, Peter was very clear about the fact that water does NOT save us in that verse:1 Peter 3:21 says zero about 'water baptism' saving us. If you cannot make a Biblical case, just insert your own, I guess.
Exactly!Peter says the complete opposite, in fact. The removal of dirt from the flesh does NOT save us. An appeal to God recognizing the resurrection of Jesus Christ saves us. No exceptions. Including the one thief on the cross.
1 Peter 3:21 And also, corresponding to this, ___?__ baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Israel pased through the sea on dry ground.
Exodus 14:21-22 And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and Yahweh moved the sea with a strong east wind all night, and he made the sea become dry ground, and the waters were divided. And the Israelites entered the middle of the sea on the dry land. The waters were a wall for them on their right and on their left.
Who told you that?
1 Corinthians 15:50 But I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor can corruption inherit incorruptibility.
Do human bodies have flesh and blood?
1 John 2:1-2 My little children, I am writing these things to you in order that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one, and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
He (His resurrection body that's with the Father) is the propitiation for our sins.
No it hasn't. The church and Peter in his first letter taught "baptism" saves us, not 'water baptism'. You insert water into a verse where Peter specifically says the washing of the flesh does NOT save us and used the passing of Israel on dry ground to prove his point.
Was the fact that God parted the sea before Israel passed through it on dry ground not relevant too?
It makes no sense to de-emphasize water baptism if water baptism is necessary for salvation. That's the point.Because of the division that was taking place among these Gentile believers.
Paul didn't want them to think he was baptizing in his own name.
Wanna bet? From your own post #58:Once again, the misreading bug has bit. I never said what is being claimed.
So, there it is, in RED and white. So you DID say what I claimed you said. I never said "invest in a bible study" as you claimed. So don't try to shift the misreading to me."I read and studied Mark 16, and verse 15-16 are in my bible.
When you say "invest in a bible study", do you mean purchase some commentary that tells you Mark 16:9-20 isn't really scripture?
This was my statement, but shows up in your post as from you. Don't plagiarize.I suggested that you invest in a study Bible. They have added notes along the margins, for, you know, studying. Cross references, etc.
It makes no sense to de-emphasize water baptism if water baptism is necessary for salvation. That's the point.
Which is what I said. To demonstrate one's faith publicly is a public confession. Which does NOT save anyone.Neccesary for public confession.
Why else?
I said this:
"Please invest in a study Bible. You'll learn that Mark 16:9-20 (end of chapter) isn't found in ANY of the earliest manuscripts
1Pe 3:20b-21 (RSV) ...in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
That says that passing through water by Noah and his family corresponds to (is the archetype of) believers being baptized in water.
If you cannot see that it is because of a serious deficiency in your reading comprehension skills.
Again, your inability to comprehend what you read has led you to a totally incorrect conclusion.
Baptism, which corresponds to this,
Corresponds to what?
Answer: to passing through water.
It's quite sad that he wasn't even willing to resolve the problem....the crux of the problem...
I said this:
"To demonstrate my faith publicly. Why else?
btw, where did I ever even suggest that water baptism wasn't necessary?
Define what is meant by "necessary" so I can properly respond to your false charge."
1 Cor 1 is clear enough for all to understand.Paul did not de-emphasize water baptism in any size, shape of form.
Having finally admitted that water baptism is necessary for public confession, why still seem to argue for the necessity of water baptism for salvation? What's the point in that?Paul emphasized that he was glad the he himself did not water baptize many people, because of the people being divided, into following Paul thinking they were baptized in the name of Paul.
That is the point Paul made in 1 Corinthians 1:14-15
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.
1 Corinthians 1:14-15
Here it is in plain and clear words: lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.
If you are not going to post the scripture with the actual language that the scriptures use, to make your point, then I will not address your questions or your post's.
JLB said: ↑
Sorry you don't understand what I said.
It's quite sad that he wasn't even willing to resolve the problem.
Since these verses are NOT in the earliest manuscripts, there is no reason to accept the opinion of some obscure scribe who added his own thoughts to inspired Scripture.If you want to teach people to ignore Mark 16:16-18, because it is "not really scripture", then that will be for you to explain to Jesus Christ, on the Day of Judgement.
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:16-18
JLB
1 Cor 1 is clear enough for all to understand.
Having finally admitted that water baptism is necessary for public confession, why still seem to argue for the necessity of water baptism for salvation? What's the point in that?
Opinion from some obscure scribe. Not inspired by God.He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16
I've already indicated what it is necessary for. Please read my posts before asking unnecessary questions.Freegrace, Is water baptism necessary for anything biblical?
Baptized for what reason?There is no problem, with me, because I believe we are to be baptized, and because I believe we are to be baptized, I obey and have been baptized.
So, is this your assumed "ticket to heaven" then?32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:32-33
JLB