Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes, I think we all understand that.
They were canonized because they were already recognized as having scriptural authority.
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It’s not biblical!
- Thread starter donadams
- Start date
They were canonized because they were already recognized as having scriptural authority.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I don't know how much NT Scripture you know but you should be aware that Paul himself knew the difference between his own educated opinions and what we recognize to be his scriptural authority. This is an important distinction that shows us Paul's writings are not just the writings of another Christian teacher.
So John, Peter, Luke... etc... didn't know if what they wrote was Scripture or not... So why would you trust Peter to validate Paul?
Paul was the superior one in your opinion... so why isn't Paul the Rock on which the Church is built?
Not at all only that the verse “the finished work of Christ” is not biblical
The “It” “it is finished” Jn 19 is the Passover sacrifice of Christ!
I never said all grace comes from Mary!
I said all grace comes thru Mary!
Jesus Christ is the source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17
And Jesus came to us thru Mary!
Lk 1:28 Hail full of grace!
Heb 4:16 throne of grace
And Mary found our salvation lost by Adam! Lk 1:30
Lk 1:45 Mary believed God!
Lk 1:38 Mary consented to our salvation!
It is finished refers to the Passover sacrifice of Christ.
OK
The finished work of Christ is the same even though those exact words may not be in the NT.
The CONCEPT is there.
Are you agreed to that?
BTW, the work that Christ came to finish was beautifully explained
by miamited in post no. 47.
OK
I know Catholic doctrine...I can go with all of the above
except for MARY FOUND OUR SALVATION LOST BY ADAM. LUKE 1:30
Are you referring to Genesis 3?
Even if you are, I think that statement is incorrect even by Catholic standards.
Matthew 16:18-16, "Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ,[r] the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him,[s] “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven! And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." This section of Matthew is often quoted, but it doesn't end there.
Matthew 16:22-23, "So Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him: “God forbid, Lord! This must not happen to you!” But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”
In this section, which follows a few verses later, Jesus a) calls Peter "Satan" and b) calls him a "stumbling block", in direct contrast to "on this rock I will build my church". These terms are not included by accident! The church is not built on Satan, and Peter is the rock that impedes Jesus.
The church, the body of Christ is built on the apostles and prophets and teachers and others who collectively founded the church.
Neither Peter nor Paul nor James nor anyone else is singly responsible for the creation of the church, the body of Christ. Colossians 2:18-19, "Do not let anyone disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, initiatory visions, puffed up without cause by a human way of thinking, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the whole body, nourished and held together by its ligaments and tendons, grows with a growth that is from God."
1 Corinthians 1:11-18, "For it has been made clear to me by Chloe’s people that there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters. What I mean is that each of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one can say that you were baptized in my name. I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else. For Christ did not send me to baptize but to proclaim the gospel—and not with eloquent wisdom, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its power.
For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
So what was your purpose with this post?
The discussion in question does not match anything in your post.
Perhaps you misunderstood the conversation that was going on.
Hi donadams
Look, if you only want to see what Jesus finished as just a Passover, ok, but I'm convicted seriously, as wondering seems to also agree with, what was actually finished was really much greater than just a Passover.
Now, don't misunderstand here. The Passover is the pattern for Christ's final days and while the Jews never understood that symbolism, as they had made up a whole bunch of other symbolism for it, the Passover, which was a memorial of when God saved them from the death angel in Egypt, was also a pattern of how some scapegoat was going to be needed for 'real' sin forgiveness later.
It's my understanding that christendom celebrates what is called Palm Sunday. Do you know what Palm Sunday represents and how it ties to the Passover?
God bless,
Ted
Look, if you only want to see what Jesus finished as just a Passover, ok, but I'm convicted seriously, as wondering seems to also agree with, what was actually finished was really much greater than just a Passover.
Now, don't misunderstand here. The Passover is the pattern for Christ's final days and while the Jews never understood that symbolism, as they had made up a whole bunch of other symbolism for it, the Passover, which was a memorial of when God saved them from the death angel in Egypt, was also a pattern of how some scapegoat was going to be needed for 'real' sin forgiveness later.
It's my understanding that christendom celebrates what is called Palm Sunday. Do you know what Palm Sunday represents and how it ties to the Passover?
God bless,
Ted
You wrote, "So John, Peter, Luke... etc... didn't know if what they wrote was Scripture or not... So why would you trust Peter to validate Paul?
Paul was the superior one in your opinion... so why isn't Paul the Rock on which the Church is built?"
My reply was to clearly show that Peter is not the rock upon which the church is built. Nor is Paul. Nor is any single person. The church is built on Jesus Christ. He is the head.
Perhaps I did misunderstand the conversation. If so, I apologize.
It was about particular passages between Peter and Paul.
Thanks for the apology.
Who canonized scripture?
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!
Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1
The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15
What about tradition?
Not customs and habits but the other kind of tradition, the teaching authority of Christ in His apostles in his church?
Those verses are great but they do not support scripture as the only authority!
Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone…
Where is this written?
Yes of course the Bible, the whole Bible not the ones produced by the tradition of men like the English bible society
But not the 16th century novelty of “the Bible alone” is the sole authority for Christians
Canon was decided in late 4th century, yes, but there were criteria used in determining which books to include in the canon. Among those criteria was catholicity, whether or not the books were accepted by the church at large.
And yet Peter referred to Paul's writings as Scripture. Paul also quotes from Luke's gospel in 1 Tim 5:18, calling it Scripture--"For the Scripture says . . . 'The laborer deserves his wages.'"
Sorry the 1 Tim 5:18 would be referring to the Scripture of "Deut 25:4 You shall not muzzle the ox when he treads out the corn.".
That would be an OT law from Scripture. And Luke and Paul are both quoting Scripture... not each other.
Don't be sorry. There are two parts to that verse:
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”
Yes, the first is the quote from Deut, but the second is from Luke 10:7:
Luk 10:7 And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the laborer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house. (ESV)
"Laborer" and "wages" don't even appear together in the OT. In fact, "laborer" is used only once:
Ecc_5:12 Sweet is the sleep of a laborer, whether he eats little or much, but the full stomach of the rich will not let him sleep. (ESV)
Luke wrote what Jesus said and Paul quoted it, calling it Scripture.
Paul and Luke might be quoting the popular version of the Deut passage. The Scripture reference may just reference the first part. Ergo your argument still doesn't hold water.
Firstly, what popular version, the one that isn't in any biblical text? Might be a popular saying, but we have no idea; that is conjecture. Secondly, Luke is not quoting Deuteronomy at all, he is quoting Christ. It is Paul alone who is quoting Deut 25:4.
Deu 25:4 “You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain." (ESV)
My argument certainly does hold water. Let's look at it again:
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”
Yes, the first is the quote from Deut 25:4, but the second is from Luke 10:7:
Luk 10:7 And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the laborer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house. (ESV)
"Laborer" and "wages" don't even appear together in the OT. In fact, "laborer" is used only once:
Ecc_5:12 Sweet is the sleep of a laborer, whether he eats little or much, but the full stomach of the rich will not let him sleep. (ESV)
Luke wrote what Jesus said and Paul quoted it, calling it Scripture. And "Scripture" most certainly applies to the second quote, unless we first make "and" cease to mean anything. It is also supported by:
1Co 9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. (ESV)