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JoJo's answer about tongues

jasoncran said:
Just curious if you don't believe in woman being in minstry the does the bible contradict itself when the prophetess blesses Jesus, i believe being a prophet is a ministry, even before Christ's arrival. Luke 2:36, also do you believe in healing for today or back then as you seem to pick apart the 1 cor 13 and use it for toungues, and prophecy, if were in that age why not healing as well. I believe Paul in I cor 14 was to address the corinthian church on a Jewish tradition, in synagougues( then and problably some today ) men and woman don't sit together, The woman would ask her husband what the pastor was saying. You have to understand that when looking at some of the nt, Do you and/or are you sugessting that a woman should were a shaw(burka) same thing in 1 cor 11:5, btw that verse speakes of woman prophecying is that teaching(it could be or the actual gift) In light of that why would Paul then say that a woman should keep silent later in chapter 14 of same book. I don't think that you're willing to accept that you could be in error as well, I'm still will ask but I will no longer argue as you seem set that you and those who agree have the total understand revalation of Jesus, You won't be the first I've ran into, and aren't the last . Recently I was informed of a doctrinal error in my believe of being to able to have authority( speak to rebuke the devil,as to command to lose things, that not seen in acts) I tell others when i see that, I see the need again, but i will do it in love, not wanting to be right.

If you wrote this in reply to my previous statement:

There are MANY functions that women ARE permitted to hold. But Church LEADER is not one of them. And, as concerning the use of tongues, Paul PLAINLY offers in a chapter DEVOTED to 'tongues' that 'women are to remain SILENT in the Church. Whether you LIKE IT or NOT or whether you agree with it or NOT is not something that has an effect on ME in the least. Whether you are ABLE to bear the truth, once again, has NO bearing on me other than the sorrow that I feel when confronted by those that 'proclaim' to know and love Christ yet are unable to abide by His commandments.

Total revelation of and understanding of Christ? Not likely to happen in this lifetime. But a 'perfect understanding' of the PURPOSE of Christ is offered to us. All we have to do is open our hearts to Him and read The Word. If we are TRUE to ourselves AND God, The Spirit IS able to offer understanding.

This 'tongues' issue is pretty well documented and the truth IS offered. Whether one chooses to ABIDE by what is offered is a 'personal issue' that I have merely tried to offer as such. Paul didn't 'beat around the bush' as concerns 'tongues'. He PLAINLY offered what they are NOT so that we can determine by witnessing those that are USED in such a manner are INDEED, not TRUE 'tongues'. He also plainly offered what they ARE. He expressedly offered that they can ONLY be manifest 'as The Spirit GIVES utterance', and IN THE CHURCH, they have guidelines that MUST be adhered to or they are NOT 'tongues' offered AS The Spirit GIVES utterance. The Spirit is NOT ignorant and WILL not offer a 'gift' to one that it DOESN'T ALREADY KNOW is able to USE this 'gift' for the edification of THE BODY.

So, accusations are like blades of grass. Tons of em and all they need is a little dirt and water to grow.

And I find that is MORE common for those that REFUSE to accept the TRUTH to accuse others of 'thinking' that they KNOW everything or simply misinterpretation. And these methods are 'nothing new'. Those that persecuted Christ and the apostles used NO LESS in their attempts to 'stiffle the truth' for the sake of themselves.

Blessings,

MEC
 
What does "speaking in tongues" really mean?

In Acts 2, I see that those gathered at Pentecost were given the ability to speak in different languages by the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:6-11) Does this not mean that they were empowered by the Holy Spirit to take the gospel throughout all the world. How else would a Galilean bring testimony to a Parthian or a Median? I, for one, am not convinced by "tongues" that are not interpreted.

1Cor 12:10-11 and to another workings of powers, to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; and to another kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues. But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each one as He desires.

1Cor 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God.
1Cor 14:4 The one speaking in a tongue builds himself up...

1Cor 14:6-9 But now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you, except I speak to you either in revelation, or in knowledge, or in prophecy, or in teaching? Yet lifeless things giving a sound, whether flute or harp, if they do not give a distinction in the sound, how will it be known what is being piped or harped? For also if a trumpet gives an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself for the battle? So also you, if you do not give a clear word through the language, how will it be known what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air.

1Cor 14:27-28 If one speaks in a language, let it be by two, or at the most three, and in succession. And let one interpret. But if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in a church; and let him speak to himself and to God.
 
But if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in a church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

And this pretty much sums up what Paul offered.

Note: Let him BE SILENT in the church.

And then: and let him speak to himself and to God.

If we take this in context along with all else that Paul offered on this subject, we can SEE that what is actually stated here is NOT, ''let that man SPEAK to himself and to God VERBALLY OUT LOUD. But what is offered is prayer that one performs WITHOUT actually speaking out loud but SILENTLY as in 'a moment of SILENT PRAYER'.

Yet so many times have I heard those that defend tongues say, "See, it SAYS; 'let him SPEAK to himself and to God'. UTTERLY ignoring the sentence offered DIRECTLY before this one. One CANNOT be SILENT and SPEAK OUT LOUD at the SAME TIME. So, taken in context, this explicitly states that one is TO BE SILENT, praying to himself and God IN SILENCE.

Blessings,

MEC
 
My understanding is that there are nine gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Paul didn't want Gentiles to be ignorant of them.
The Gifts of the Holy Spirit can be organized into categories:

Power Gifts:
  • Miracles[/*:m:1if9mu0j]
  • Faith[/*:m:1if9mu0j]
  • Gifts of Healing[/*:m:1if9mu0j]
Gifts of Revelation:
  • Discernment of Spirits[/*:m:1if9mu0j]
  • Word of Wisdom[/*:m:1if9mu0j]
  • Word of Knowledge[/*:m:1if9mu0j]
Gifts of Utterance:
  • Prophecy[/*:m:1if9mu0j]
  • Tongues[/*:m:1if9mu0j]
  • Interpretation of Tongues[/*:m:1if9mu0j]

It is important to note that these gifts are given to the church herself. I like to think of them as "Betrothal Gifts". That's why Paul had to admonish his followers in Corinth about doing things in proper order (and decorum) while they were assembled together. We would not want the Church, the Bride of Christ, doing things in an unseemly manner, right?

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

We know the more excellent way that Paul taught in the next couple verses, but we should not skip over the admonition to covet earnestly the best gifts (such as Prophecy). When I study this passage I get the sense that we are to chase the gifts down as if we are in a veritable race. Have you ever seen dog races (it's gambling so if you haven't I understand :shades ) - but the greyhounds on the track are running after a rabbit and are very single minded in it. That's the sense of urgency that I understand from the Apostle's admonition to the Spirit filled saints of Corinth, "covet earnestly the best gifts".

To me, it is perfectly okay :thumb to not only ask our Father in heaven for a "Fish", knowing that He will not give a stone - but when seeking the Gifts of the Spirit, to run them down hard. We have permission, perhaps even more than that, yes?

Obviously some of the members of the Corinthian church were speaking in tongues but were not doing so in the way God wanted. Paul didn't mock them saying, "don't speak jibberish". He could have and I believe he would have (perhaps with more tact) had that been what they were doing. He acknowledged their "speaking in tongues" and later said the he spake in the spirit more than they did. He did explain the reason but didn't prohibit speaking in tongues and in fact forbade that.

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say :amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well :praying , but the other is not edified :shrug . I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all :approve : Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

The Apostle went on to demonstrate the principle by creating a scenario where he depicted the Corinthians behaving in a disorderly manner:
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? :screwloose

Paul began his dissertation in the chapter with the statement that he did not want them to be ignorant about the Gifts of the Spirit. He concluded with, "What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order."
 
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