JoJo's answer about tongues

[Dave Slayer]

I can do nothing about that (it was prophesied, so it has to be this way, although sad) Some will seek the Lord about it, if they love to find out what He says about it, some will not, and will stick to their religion.

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but I hope you are not saying that just because someone doesn't seek the Lord continously for the gift of tongues that they are sticking to religion and doing away with Jesus? I am getting tired of hearing how Christians need so badly this gift. Whether or not I agree with it, I don't mind if others are able to speak in tongues, but please do not make those who don't speak in tongues feel bad. I personally have dealt that with enough in my life and will not deal with it anymore. I don't say this to be harsh, but I am just getting annoyed. I have recently recovered from Pentecostal brainwashing, so please leave me be. :D

Not aiming these bad experiences at you, but sometimes you do make me feel bad because I don't speak in tongues. I am sure that is not your intent, but I just do not want to feel bad about not speaking in tongues.

God Bless,

Dave

 

[stranger]

I can do nothing about that (it was prophesied, so it has to be this way, although sad) Some will seek the Lord about it, if they love to find out what He says about it, some will not, and will stick to their religion.

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but I hope you are not saying that just because someone doesn't seek the Lord continously for the gift of tongues that they are sticking to religion and doing away with Jesus? I am getting tired of hearing how Christians NEED so badly this gift. Whether or not I agree with it, I don't mind if others are able to speak in tongues, but PLEASE do not make those who don't speak in tongues feel bad. I personally have dealth that with enough in my life and will NOT deal with it anymore. I don't say this to be harsh, but I am just getting annoyed. I have recently recovered from Pentecostal brainwashing, so please leave me be. Thank you!

Hi Dave,

This explains your extensive series of youtube videos against tongues or at least the abuse thereof. In one post I mentioned someone I knew became a MacArthurite. He to had (at the time) recently left a Pentecostal church with considerable ill feeling. But then as i discovered -- he was soon reading MacArthurs version of the bible and listening to MacArthurs tapes and reading books by MacArthur. I don't know but I get the feeling that one source of material (MacArthur's tapes, videos, books, sermons and Macarthur's bible) does not constitute a balanced diet. It may be that few men can really handle success (and MacArthur is successful) without it eventually turning their hearts from the Lord. I have to wait and see, maybe I'm blowing the whistle to early on this one.

take care

 

[Dave Slayer]

I can do nothing about that (it was prophesied, so it has to be this way, although sad) Some will seek the Lord about it, if they love to find out what He says about it, some will not, and will stick to their religion.

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but I hope you are not saying that just because someone doesn't seek the Lord continously for the gift of tongues that they are sticking to religion and doing away with Jesus? I am getting tired of hearing how Christians NEED so badly this gift. Whether or not I agree with it, I don't mind if others are able to speak in tongues, but PLEASE do not make those who don't speak in tongues feel bad. I personally have dealth that with enough in my life and will NOT deal with it anymore. I don't say this to be harsh, but I am just getting annoyed. I have recently recovered from Pentecostal brainwashing, so please leave me be. Thank you!

Hi Dave,

This explains the series against tongues or at least the abuse thereof. In one post I mentioned someone I knew became a MacArthurite. He to had (at the time) recently left a Pentecostal church with considerable ill feeling. But then as i discovered -- he was soon reading MacArthurs version of the bible and listening to MacArthurs tapes and reading books by MacArthur. I don't know but I get the feeling that one source of material (MacArthur's tapes, videos, books, sermons and Macarthur's bible) does not constitute a balanced diet. It may be that few men can really handle success (and MacArthur is successful) without it eventually turning their hearts from the Lord. I have to wait and see, maybe I'm blowing the whistle to early on this one.

take care

Thanks for your response. I do not believe MacArthur on everything, but I find his teachings on tongues to be fairly accurate. His teachings may not be perfect, but then again no one's teachings are. Only the scriptures are perfect and we will always differ on how we will interpret them. Just because someone likes a particular preaher, doesn't make them a follower of that preacher. If you were a preacher and I agreed with you a lot, that wouldn't make me a "Strangerite". ;)

God Bless!

Dave

 

[Cornelius]

I can do nothing about that (it was prophesied, so it has to be this way, although sad) Some will seek the Lord about it, if they love to find out what He says about it, some will not, and will stick to their religion.

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but I hope you are not saying that just because someone doesn't seek the Lord continously for the gift of tongues that they are sticking to religion and doing away with Jesus? I am getting tired of hearing how Christians need so badly this gift. Whether or not I agree with it, I don't mind if others are able to speak in tongues, but please do not make those who don't speak in tongues feel bad. I personally have dealth that with enough in my life and will not deal with it anymore. I don't say this to be harsh, but I am just getting annoyed. I have recently recovered from Pentecostal brainwashing, so please leave me be. :D

Not aiming these bad experiences at you, but sometimes you do make me feel bad because I don't speak in tongues. I am sure that is not your intent, but I just do not want to feel bad about not speaking in tongues.

God Bless,

Dave

You know Dave, that sometimes we sink into a comfort zone and somebody like me has to pass you by and the irritation is not always a bad thing. I told you before, I am not doing this for any other reason but love.

Most so called churches are asleep. I have been in and through them for thirty years, seeking if somewhere I could find truth. There is really none out there. I know most will not believe this, but than that is normal.

The fact that you do not speak in tongues , does not mean you will NOT speak in tongues. So feeling bad can have a positive effect. If you seek the Lord in earnest about it, He will tell you.

You must remember that the church has been through the Dark Ages, and we lost a lot of truth during those years. The truth about the Holy Spirit was lost too and the Protestant movement come from the Catholic, which did not preach this. So we still have some leftover doctrine floating around that must be renewed. Most people are still confused about this. You are not alone.

It took me a while too, because I grew up in a very traditional church who still do not even preach anything about the Holy Spirit.

C

 

[Dave Slayer]

I can do nothing about that (it was prophesied, so it has to be this way, although sad) Some will seek the Lord about it, if they love to find out what He says about it, some will not, and will stick to their religion.

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but I hope you are not saying that just because someone doesn't seek the Lord continously for the gift of tongues that they are sticking to religion and doing away with Jesus? I am getting tired of hearing how Christians need so badly this gift. Whether or not I agree with it, I don't mind if others are able to speak in tongues, but please do not make those who don't speak in tongues feel bad. I personally have dealth that with enough in my life and will not deal with it anymore. I don't say this to be harsh, but I am just getting annoyed. I have recently recovered from Pentecostal brainwashing, so please leave me be. :D

Not aiming these bad experiences at you, but sometimes you do make me feel bad because I don't speak in tongues. I am sure that is not your intent, but I just do not want to feel bad about not speaking in tongues.

God Bless,

Dave

You know Dave, that sometimes we sink into a comfort zone and somebody like me has to pass you by and the irritation is not always a bad thing. I told you before, I am not doing this for any other reason but love.

Most so called churches are asleep. I have been in and through them for thirty years, seeking if somewhere I could find truth. There is really none out there. I know most will not believe this, but than that is normal.

The fact that you do not speak in tongues , does not mean you will NOT speak in tongues. So feeling bad can have a positive effect. If you seek the Lord in earnest about it, He will tell you.

You must remember that the church has been through the Dark Ages, and we lost a lot of truth during those years. The truth about the Holy Spirit was lost too and the Protestant movement come from the Catholic, which did not preach this. So we still have some leftover doctrine floating around that must be renewed. Most people are still confused about this. You are not alone.

God Bless!

Dave

It took me a while too, because I grew up in a very traditional church who still do not even preach anything about the Holy Spirit.

C

Thanks for your response and I appreciate you doing this out of love. However, I do not believe I am confused about tongues, but you may think I am and that is okay. I will just agree to disagree with you. I am going to leave it at that. I think my discussion on tongues are going to now "cease". :D

 

[stranger]

Thanks for your response. I do not believe MacArthur on everything, but I find his teachings on tongues to be fairly accurate. His teachings may not be perfect, but then again no one's teachings are. Only the scriptures are perfect and we will always differ on how we will interpret them. Just because someone likes a particular preaher, doesn't make them a follower of that preacher. If you were a preacher and I agreed with you a lot, that wouldn't make me a "Strangerite".

Hi Dave,

Mine is an observation - but I take your point. I find it unusual that MacArthur would publish his own version of the bible and that in a number of languages - don't you think that is unusual?

blessings

 

[Dave Slayer]

Thanks for your response. I do not believe MacArthur on everything, but I find his teachings on tongues to be fairly accurate. His teachings may not be perfect, but then again no one's teachings are. Only the scriptures are perfect and we will always differ on how we will interpret them. Just because someone likes a particular preaher, doesn't make them a follower of that preacher. If you were a preacher and I agreed with you a lot, that wouldn't make me a "Strangerite".

Hi Dave,

Mine is an observation - but I take your point. I find it unusual that MacArthur would publish his own version of the bible and that in a number of languages - don't you think that is unusual?

blessings

It's actually a NASB Version with study notes by John MacArthur. All study Bibles have study notes that are simply interpretations of the scriptures as study notes will differ among the Bible versions. There is an NASB Bible and there are NASB Study Bibles. I guess MacArthur wanted an NASB Bible with his study notes. Why? I don't know. I would rather do without the study notes or foot notes a they are merely interpretations. I prefer my Bible served straight up, if you know what I mean. ;)

God Bless!

Dave

 

[stranger]

Hi Cornelius,

The fact that you do not speak in tongues , does not mean you will NOT speak in tongues. So feeling bad can have a positive effect. If you seek the Lord in earnest about it, He will tell you.

Doesn't God give gifts to whom He will ? Some he gave to be... I would see it more as recognising the gifts that God gives rather than seeking particular gifts with the exception of prophesy.

Also seeking the Lord without an agenda is quite different to seeking the Lord with an agenda.

blessings

 

[stranger]

It's actually a NASB Version with study notes by John MacArthur. All study Bibles have study notes that are simply interpretations of the scriptures as study notes will differ among the Bible versions. There is an NASB Bible and there are NASB Study Bibles. I guess MacArthur wanted an NASB Bible with his study notes. Why? I don't know. I would rather do without the study notes or foot notes a they are merely interpretations. I prefer my Bible served straight up, if you know what I mean. ;)

Hello,

OK. I don't mind the so called cross references -- but study notes/ interpretations? On the website there were also 4(?) volumes of questions and answers. I didn't like the sound of that either because the JW's use the question and answer method quite affectively to brainwash. I like people to ask their own questions and find their own answers from different sources.

Go in peace!

 

[Cornelius]

Hi Cornelius,

The fact that you do not speak in tongues , does not mean you will NOT speak in tongues. So feeling bad can have a positive effect. If you seek the Lord in earnest about it, He will tell you.

Doesn't God give gifts to whom He will ? Some he gave to be... I would see it more as recognising the gifts that God gives rather than seeking particular gifts with the exception of prophesy.

Also seeking the Lord without an agenda is quite different to seeking the Lord with an agenda.

blessings

I have really done this study all through these threads where I showed the difference between the "Some He gave......." where it talks about ministry gifts that operate IN church and then the gifts that are not part of the offices (like Apostles, pastors , evangelists etc )

So the confusion is purely the result of a lack of knowledge, which can easily be rectified with a bit of serious study

Seeking the Lord with the agenda to come into His will regarding the Holy Spirit is a pure purpose.



C

 

[jasoncran]

yes, this is a tough issue for some, but if the gitft of miracles listed 1cor 12:1thru 10 went away then why do we pray for healing. I've seen miracles and been healed by a miracle myself. No, I don't advocate scientology, the abstaining from doctors. I will read and post the 1 cor 13:10 kjv" But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is part shall be done away" yes, i also read the above scriptures. Paul was saying that love is more important than gifts,( while they should be used). The complete part is the retun of Jesus. He hasn't yet. Didn't Jesus say that greater miracles shall you do then these because of I go unto the father. Look at Peter in the book of acts. That's for today as it was then. Yes, they're fakers out there.

I went to pentacostal church, I have recieved the holy ghost baptistism, and have spoke in tounges, It doesn't make one more saved. But it does edify you and others. Yes there is a gift of tounges, and without an interpretation its only a prayer,but when the unkown(or a foreign language) tounge is interpreted the church is edified. I longer make big deal out of it, as living the life is more important.

I've also seen pentacostal churches do weird things, spiritual warfare, name and claim it.
IMHO, and scripture will back it up in Jude,. We aren't to rebuke the devil in every case, i mean if your praying for a lost soul why are you comanding the devil to let him/her go, No i'm not saying that there's heresy in the pentacostal church, just error in doctrine, all churches have some mistintepretations.

Well, I wasn't going to attack any demonation, but i will say this since it was brought up. Where in the bible does it say once saved always saved. This questions is for the Baptist and others who believe that. I do listen to Pastor Adrian Rogers, and I understand the view point. I just can't reconcile the baptist belief that once saved always saved with in Luke 21:36,Mark 14:32to37.

You all have given me much to pray about.

 

[follower of Christ]

In my life, I have always given when asked Once it was a house.

But sometimes the Lord has spoken to me NOT to give, when abuse came into play: Here is the scripture He once gave me, while I was looking after a woman, who refused to work and demanded her "keep" from me each month, because we "have to give" (by this time, I was looking after her for a year already)

2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, If any will not work, neither let him eat.

God taught me how to read all of the Word to come to an understanding. He did not leave us powerless against abuse.

Im sorry but you either accept the scriptures AS written or you dont. Apparently when YOUR whims need for absolutes to exist in the texts, then you take it 'as written...when you dont like what it says then you find some way out of it.

Youve proven a point tho, so thank you very much. That point is that ONE or TWO verses about ANY given topic, including tongues, MUST be taken along with ALL of the relevant evidence and THAT WHOLE is where we see that tongues ISNT required...nor is it something that all or even many believers will ever have.

You can run on for 50 more pages about this, friend, and Im afraid you are simply wrong. Tongues is for a sign for those who believe NOT....prophecy is for those who believe. That is by Pauls own instruction.

 

[follower of Christ]

Do you see how I can abuse the PLAIN scripture if I choose to do so ?

Brother, I just wanted to add: there is no skill in abusing the Word. We have preachers who do that for a living !

And you seem to be doing exactly what those preachers do...abusing the word to teach a false doctrine.

 

[follower of Christ]

OK, I have to ask you: Can you see that there is a condition to receiving the Holy Spirit in that scripture ?

..............to them that ask him?

And we understand that condition. But HE decides who gets what gift and we ALL get DIFFERENT gifts.

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were Gentiles, how you were led, being carried away to these speechless idols. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Now there are varieties of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are varieties of ministries, but the same Lord.
And there are varieties of activities, but the same God works all in all.
But to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the profit of all.

For to one is given a word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another a word of knowledge according to the same Spirit, and to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another discerning of spirits, and to another different kinds of tongues , and to another interpretation of tongues.

But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

For just as the body is one and has many parts, but all the parts of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and we were all given to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one part but many.
(1Co 12:1-14)

..nuff said.

 

[lovely]

Cornelius,

I know that everyone is sort of talking to you at once in these threads, but when you have time I would like to see your response to what I have written to you about how I understand 1 Corinthians 12 that not all will be given the gift of tongues. Someone mentioned that if you asked for a fish will you be given a stone, and I think that we have to recognize that sometimes God's answer is 'no', because we are first to pray that His will, not ours, be done.

I think that the attitude that we all should be speaking in tongues, or we lack faith, or we haven't asked enough is not only not Scripturally accurate according to 1 Corinthians 12, but it's actually what causes people to imitate the gift to the extent that we see...to the point that other sickening manifestations creep in, and so bad that many of us have never actually heard someone genuinely speak with tongues with an interpreter in the orderly manner that scripture mandates for believers, and churches, who have this gift.

The Lord bless you.

 

[follower of Christ]

So the confusion is purely the result of a lack of knowledge, which can easily be rectified with a bit of serious study

Seeking the Lord with the agenda to come into His will regarding the Holy Spirit is a pure purpose.
C

No, that is just the charismatic trying to do away with the CLEAR and consistent FACTS that tongues is a GIFT that many NEVER have.

HE decides who gets what gift and we ALL get DIFFERENT gifts.

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were Gentiles, how you were led, being carried away to these speechless idols. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Now there are varieties of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are varieties of ministries, but the same Lord.
And there are varieties of activities, but the same God works all in all.
But to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the profit of all.

For to one is given a word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another a word of knowledge according to the same Spirit, and to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another discerning of spirits, and to another different kinds of tongues , and to another interpretation of tongues.

But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

For just as the body is one and has many parts, but all the parts of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and we were all given to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one part but many.
(1Co 12:1-14)

 

[follower of Christ]

Maybe the devil has perverted the gift. Why is that a reason to throw it out? Why would he not pervert all the gifts?

There isnt any need to throw it out, is there?
All we have to do is follow the RULES for tongues and keep order in the assembly and those who fake will be dealt with by God Himself.

The scripture has VERY clear rules for tongues.
One is not speaking in tongues out loud to the assembly UNLESS there is an interpreter.
Now, how does a tongues speaker KNOW beforehand that there will be an interpreter afterward ?

Paul was a pretty brilliant guy. The rules laid out actually curb the abuse of tongues WHEN the rules are followed.
In MOST charismatic churches the rules are trampled on, just as they apparently were in Corinth.

I'll say it again.
The Corinthian church seems to be the ONLY church that idolized tongues. And Paul called them children and told them to basically 'grow up'.
I wouldnt want to partake of anything that church was doing that was being corrected by Paul.

 

[follower of Christ]

it is the spirit of discernment telling you something is hokey here.

Discernment passed away with the early church.

Cheap shot.
I dont think anyone is saying in any absolute fashion here that tongues cannot exist today, not any posts that Ive read so far anyway.
But we ARE saying, in agreement with Paul, that tongues had/has a purpose and that purpose is that it is for a sign for those who believe NOT...just as scripture teaches us.

You are refusing to harmonize ALL of the data, friend. Tongues is the LEAST of the gifts as it has no real purpose in the church. *IF* it did then Paul certainly would NOT tell us to remain silent unless there were an interpreter.

 

[follower of Christ]

First, I was showing how ridiculous it is to claim one gift and dump another. They use words that suit them

Huh...really ?
Then your beef is with PAUL, friend, as HE is the one who said to 'dump' tongues over other gifts...

Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
(1Co 14:22)

PAUL is the one who 'dumps' tongues for prophecy, friend. You'll have to deal with Paul, Im afraid.

I used scripture in my posts, and as you can see, not even that would change the minds of those who have rejected the gifts.

And *I* have bombarded these threads with CLEAR scripture, which you just ignore and distort to suit your error.

I can do nothing about that (it was prophesied, so it has to be this way, although sad) Some will seek the Lord about it, if they love to find out what He says about it, some will not, and will stick to their religion.

We will seek to see what His WORD teaches as a whole and test every single thing you claim here, that is for certain.

 

[follower of Christ]

The fact that you do not speak in tongues , does not mean you will NOT speak in tongues.

AND if he does it STILL will NOT change the FACTS that not all will speak in tongues.
That is a huge error I see all the time in the body. *I* do something so therefore ALL must do it...which is ridiculously absurd.
What part of Pauls instruction are you folks missing ?
This is ABOUT gifts of the Spirit and how we EACH have different gifts and we all complete the ONE body. WE are NOT all the SAME part having the SAME function..a fact that you clearly are oblivious to.

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom;
to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit;
to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles;
to another prophecy;
to another discerning of spirits;
to another divers kinds of tongues;
to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
For the body is not one member, but many.

If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body.
And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

And God hath set some in the church,
first apostles,
secondarily prophets,
thirdly teachers,
after that miracles,
then gifts of healings,
helps,
governments,
diversities of tongues.

Are all apostles?
are all prophets?
are all teachers?
are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing?
do all speak with tongues?
do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
(1Co 12:1-31)

How a person can READ that chapter and miss it is beyond me. Almost like they WANT to believe a lie.
Its almost as bad as my friend who is into abortion clinic protests who demands that EVERY christian has to do the same. If we ALL did abortion protests NOTHING else would get done !

Based on PAULs words there we should be coveting the BEST gifts, which very clearly tongues is not anywhere near the top of that list.