JoJo's answer about tongues

[Imagican]

'Tongues' DO still exist today. All one need do is 'step outside their door'. There are a MYRIAD of languages being spoken.

The 'gift of tongues'? Paul stated that they WOULD CEASE. What reason do we have to believe that that was written FOR US? It was written in a LETTER to those ALIVE at the TIME. Most likely to POINT OUT that WHILE many were STILL ALIVE, they would CEASE. For the ONLY REASON for them to BEGIN with were to make it possible for the apostles to COMMUNICATE with people of OTHER LANGUAGES.

Read it yourself; ''Tongues are FOR A SIGN, NOT to them that BELIEVE, but to them that BELIEVE NOT. Tonges made it possible for the apostles to communicate the Word of God to those who spoke DIFFERENT languages.

Now, ONCE The Church was established, there was NO NEED for the gifts offered to START The Church.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[radorth]

'Tongues' DO still exist today. All one need do is 'step outside their door'. There are a MYRIAD of languages being spoken.

The 'gift of tongues'? Paul stated that they WOULD CEASE. What reason do we have to believe that that was written FOR US? It was written in a LETTER to those ALIVE at the TIME. Most likely to POINT OUT that WHILE many were STILL ALIVE, they would CEASE. For the ONLY REASON for them to BEGIN with were to make it possible for the apostles to COMMUNICATE with people of OTHER LANGUAGES.

Read it yourself; ''Tongues are FOR A SIGN, NOT to them that BELIEVE, but to them that BELIEVE NOT. Tonges made it possible for the apostles to communicate the Word of God to those who spoke DIFFERENT languages.

Now, ONCE The Church was established, there was NO NEED for the gifts offered to START The Church.

Blessings,

MEC

True as far as it goes. There are also "diversities of tongues" which can clearly be used strictly for the edification of the church, when interpreted.

Let me ask, how is it that where there are no tongues allowed, that the church cannot all prophesy "one by one" either?

 

[follower of Christ]

True as far as it goes. There are also "diversities of tongues" which can clearly be used strictly for the edification of the church, when interpreted.

Let me ask, how is it that where there are no tongues allowed, that the church cannot all prophesy "one by one" either?

Ive never been to a church of any sort that would forbid someone genuinely exhibiting biblical prophesy.
Ive been to a LOT of charismatic churches who are entirely out of control, tho, and who NEVER try to follow the rules for tongues in the assembly.
When one can be presented that DOES follow the rules, I'll be more than happy to check it out.

 

[radorth]

True as far as it goes. There are also "diversities of tongues" which can clearly be used strictly for the edification of the church, when interpreted.

Let me ask, how is it that where there are no tongues allowed, that the church cannot all prophesy "one by one" either?

Ive never been to a church of any sort that would forbid someone genuinely exhibiting biblical prophesy.
Ive been to a LOT of charismatic churches who are entirely out of control, tho, and who NEVER try to follow the rules for tongues in the assembly.
When one can be presented that DOES follow the rules, I'll be more than happy to check it out.

OK fair enough. Hopefully we would all know when God was running the show. My fear is that some small disagreement about doctrine will more likely lead us to kill off the work of God. That is clearly our tendencey, is my point. Was Paul more afraid that people would preach Christ amiss, or that "I myself would be disapproved"? Shouldn't our own greatest fear be that our wineskins are too old for God to pour anything new into?

 

[follower of Christ]

OK fair enough. Hopefully we would all know when God was running the show. My fear is that some small disagreement about doctrine will more likely lead us to kill off the work of God. That is clearly our tendencey, is my point. Was Paul more afraid that people would preach Christ amiss, or that "I myself would be disapproved"? Shouldn't our own greatest fear be that our wineskins are too old for God to pour anything new into?

The problem is when some start REdefining what is being put into those new wineskins by introducing things into it that no NT scripture presents and certainly dissuades with scriptures that prohibit disorderly conduct and lack of self control.

I dont fear self control nor am I naive enough to believe that God works thru disorder, disobedience or even emotionalism to accomplish His purpose.

 

[jasoncran]

Wow the arguing over this and when were gone, another generation will start this one over again I used to hear these same arguments for and against tounges( and the baptism of the holy ghost) ten years ago.

I will say my viewpoint then observe and think, but may post and not argue. I have been raised in the faith in a pentacostal church( I went to the Church of God, and then onto a local nondemonational, holy spirit lead read my bible for myself church.) The latter was more charismatic then the former. Routinely there was prophecying, speaking in the gift of tounges with intrpetation, and healings, discernment.

The founder of the church was saved in a baptist church and went to follow the Lord, He wound up prophecying that( the lord told him, and he confessed it) he would have land and a church, would have a tv ministry as well. His church did more back in the 60's to his death in'85 than any other did, His church was the first to be a mixed church in my home county, a black with white and other races, back then there was only white, black and other. He also had school, and also wanted to help the homeless( the county fought that idea back then). He reached to the hippies, when other churches wouldn't . Herman Stalvey was his name and his widow now runs the church.

Both Stalveys believe in the holy ghost for today. There's order in this church, and yes the pastor has told people who speak in toungues not do so or any other who disrupt service stop. The worship service is a little loud and there a two hour service of worship( not always). The pastor and other who preach try to allow the spririt to lead, and no service(most of the times) is exactly the same.There' dancing and those who fall out form the laying of hands, i've done that myself. You have some control( you allow god to do that). There are catchers cause some people fake,and they there to prevent injury.

If any of you been to a black church( of any demonation) those people can be long winded, have long serivices, and dance, Thats they we they are. Lets be real, we used(still)act like fools at football games, basketball games, and anyother sport, not to mention those club days. Why can't we do that for Jesus.Even in this church , they're quiet people who are stand during worship, or clap( I stand or sit most of the time) others dance. If you are apprecitive for what Jesus has done why cant you make a joyful noise(not barking, or moaning). It can be done , i've seen people grieve for jesus, out of joy or sin in their lives, I've cried at a worship( did today) service, and i'v done in my car, at the altar. Where does it say in the bible that church is to be quiet, the same thing every day, a set pattern.

I've almost finished, I've been to quiet baptist church and been feed, and to others who wanted God on their time that I honestly didn' t think he was in that church. (bone dry). The only reason I don't go to the pentacostal church is cause i can longer stay awake for three hours as i work seven days a week.

link to my old church
http://www.wofnbc.com/view/?pageID=291774

 

[follower of Christ]

Why can't we do that for Jesus.Even in this church , they're quiet people who are stand during worship, or clap( I stand or sit most of the time) others dance.

I dont see the problem with 'dancing' or getting excited about Jesus. I draw the line on flopping around the floor like a dog have a seizure and rambling on incoherently where its VERY obvious that the Spirit doesnt have a thing to do with it.

Ive asked already, and my ongoing question is why do some seem to believe that the 'Holy Spirit = Chaos and disorder' ?
Does the Spirit need believers to be out of control ? For what purpose ?

 

[radorth]

I dont fear self control nor am I naive enough to believe that God works thru disorder, disobedience or even emotionalism to accomplish His purpose.

Agreed. I never suggested anything different. Are you speaking to me or someone in your rather puzzling imagination?

 

[follower of Christ]

I dont fear self control nor am I naive enough to believe that God works thru disorder, disobedience or even emotionalism to accomplish His purpose.

Agreed. I never suggested anything different. Are you speaking to me or someone in your rather puzzling imagination?

Just in general much of the time

 

[Imagican]

A SIMPLE question for those that PROMOTE the use of UNKNOWN TONGUES:

From a BIBLICAL perspective, PLEASE tell us where the Bible offers that UNKNOWN 'tongues' are ABLE to BE used BY The Church.

No, I am NOT asking about diverse tongues, specifically UNKNOWN 'tongues'.

Now, IF the 'tongue is UNKNOWN' that means that it CANNOT BE interpreted. For one LISTENING to gibberish is ONLY GOING TO HEAR 'gibberish'. PERIOD. Interpreting gibberish WOULD BE GIBBERISH.

So, diversity of tongues WAS a 'gift' that was NEEDED by the apostles to communicate with those of OTHER LANGUAGES to START The Church. Get it, LANGUAGES that EXIST. An UNKNOWN TONGUE is one that DOES NOT 'truly exist'. For it is UKNOWN. Not ONLY by the speaker, but the LISTENER as well.

Now, the churches that TEACH and practice tongues would say that it CAN be interpreted. This is UTTER falacy. That means that those that PRETEND to interpret are doing NOTHING other than 'playing the SAME GAME' as the one SPEAKING.

For we are PLAINLY told that 'tongues are FOR A SIGN, NOT to then that BELIEVE, but for them that BELIEVE NOT. Now, HOW IS THE SPIRIT going to offer UTTERANCE against the PRINCIPLE of 'tongues' to BEGIN with?

How is a NON BELIEVER going to INTERPRET 'tongues'? From what I have witnessed, it is the 'group' of SUPPOSED believers that these 'interpreters' are MEMBERS OF.

And what is the POINT of interpreting tongues TO Believers IF they are for THEM THAT BELIEVE NOT?

It's really simple folks. Some 'yahoo' misinterpreted EVERYTHING offered concerning tongues and then went out and offered such an EMOTIONAL tidal wave that MANY were 'caught up' in the excitement. At first, mostly uneducated and ignorant hillbillys and then it has grown in recent years to include a diversity of people. But there is NO TRUTH contained with these institutions or they would KNOW better than what they teach and practice.

The evidence is CLEAR. But obviously that won't convince MOST people. For MOST people are COMPLETELY devoid of THE TRUTH. Even when confronted with it they will ultimate CHOOSE 'self' over THE TRUTH every time.

The GIBBERISH that many CALL tongues are CERTAINLY NOT the 'tongues' mentioned concerning THE Spirit. Maybe inspired by SOME spirit, but NOT the Spirit of God. Sorry to be the one to 'bust your BUBBLE', but the truth is the truth and it doesn't take a 'rocket scientist' to 'figure it out'.

And notice how those that practice such teachings are ALWAYS completely at ODDS with ALL others that don't accept it. Hateful and spiteful towards ANYONE that refutes what they practice. Another sign or indication that the spirit that they are filled with is NOT The Spirit that I am familiar with.

So, as Paul stated, those that REFUSE to accept the TRUTH, LET THEM remain IGNORANT. For ultimately it is THEIR Salvation that they TOY WITH. And not a ONE OF US is capable of SAVING another. All we can Do is offer the truth and HOPE that it is accepted. But it's up to God and HIs children to FOLLOW IN TRUTH.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[jasoncran]

Imagine I don't act like that and my present church doesn't manifest the gift of tounges or others at all. reread my post I wasn't hostile you or anyone else. I only explained my position


Btw if you consired those churches who believe in tounges of the devil then if you are in Florida, the stations wreh,wscf are ran out of those types of churches. I think they do a heck of a job considering the times(wreh reaches about 40 to 50 percent of Florida and is listener supported) I guess florida must satan's backyard.

I'm not saying that all charismatic churches are godly, but I've also could blast the baptist movement as easily as you do. I've seem them preach against things not directly in the bible, I will say that many are good churches and I won't allow a few bad apples ruin a whole lot when forming my opinion. I will mention one bad expercience I went to a baptist church in Lawtey,Fl and the pastor was ranting on and on about how the speaking in tounges was the devil, yet his church while he was speaking other things was disorderly,people begain to praise god, testify, I could tell this happened here a lot, but i was more and more becoming like a pentacostal service. The most odd thing about that church was they had sewn (knitted) box with the name of Jesus on the alter and everytime they would testify someone would kick that thing around. I didn't know what to make of that church and I haven't been back since.
Jason

 

[stranger]

When will tongues pass away:

According to 1 Corinthians 13:8

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

This verse has to refer to the end of the age when all things will pass away except love. All prophesy has to be fulfiled before it passes away, again indicating the end of the age. Likewise when will all knowledge pass away? --- at the end of the age. If tongues pass away before the end of the age, while prophesy and knowledege continue then there is a problem with selective interpretation.


Rumer has it that after the early Church was established there was no further need for gifts.

I have found no evidence in scripture that the gifts will pass away before the end of the age. This is an assumption that has gained popularity for some reason making it possible for ungifted men to exercise gifts of human origin in the church.

Actually when the gifts pass away we are at the end of the age and there will be no need to start a church.

blessings

 

[follower of Christ]

I agree that tongues did not pass away with the start of the church as Paul said not to forbid speaking in tongues well into the church age.
I simply believe that there are a LOT of fakers and they exist because of the pressure to conform by those who probably havent ever genuinely spoken in tongues either.

 

[JoJo]

Wow. So much said and so little resolved. I am praying that the Lord will reveal HIS truth, the only truth, to each of us.

 

[follower of Christ]

Wow. So much said and so little resolved. I am praying that the Lord will reveal HIS truth, the only truth, to each of us.

Its typically the same in every doctrinal discussion. Two sides throwing verses back and forth, neither side willing to actually examine what the other is saying.
About the only thing one can do is hope the reader with discernment can figure out what the evidence actually is showing so at least some good comes of it all.

 

[jasoncran]

Yes, this christian is willing to hear the other side and is curraently reaserching more on this, I recently
asked a charismatic elder about this and will have a good discusion with him. I'll post later.

 

[Imagican]

jason,

When you go to have this discussion, ask your pastor or whoever WHERE in the Bible is the tongues used in your Church explained.

And then ask him HOW there can BE 'tongues' that are inspired by The Spirit that CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD.

Now a question for YOU:

Have you EVER experience an instance where ANYONE in your church speaks in tongues WITHOUT an interpreter?

Have you EVER experienced an instance where a WOMAN spoke in 'tongues' IN THE CHURCH?

Most people involved with many charismatic movements are NOT ABLE to be truthful with others or even themselves. For SELF delusion is more potent than SATAN.

And you don't even NEED to answer these questions to me. Answer them TO YOURSELF.

Then read what Paul offered in 1 Corinthians.

I am well aware of how PAINFUL the truth can be at times. There is NOTHING as hard to accept as being led astray in FAITH. Many, even when their hearts TELL THEM that they are following lies, their ego won't let them 'walk away'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[jasoncran]

Just curious if you don't believe in woman being in minstry the does the bible contradict itself when the prophetess blesses Jesus, i believe being a prophet is a ministry, even before Christ's arrival. Luke 2:36, also do you believe in healing for today or back then as you seem to pick apart the 1 cor 13 and use it for toungues, and prophecy, if were in that age why not healing as well. I believe Paul in I cor 14 was to address the corinthian church on a Jewish tradition, in synagougues( then and problably some today ) men and woman don't sit together, The woman would ask her husband what the pastor was saying. You have to understand that when looking at some of the nt, Do you and/or are you sugessting that a woman should were a shaw(burka) same thing in 1 cor 11:5, btw that verse speakes of woman prophecying is that teaching(it could be or the actual gift) In light of that why would Paul then say that a woman should keep silent later in chapter 14 of same book. I don't think that you're willing to accept that you could be in error as well, I'm still will ask but I will no longer argue as you seem set that you and those who agree have the total understand revalation of Jesus, You won't be the first I've ran into, and aren't the last . Recently I was informed of a doctrinal error in my believe of being to able to have authority( speak to rebuke the devil,as to command to lose things, that not seen in acts) I tell others when i see that, I see the need again, but i will do it in love, not wanting to be right.

 

[mutzrein]

Okay, I can accept that.

But I still don't see the difference between "tongues" as a special oral language and a "prayer language." I've never come across any Scripture that speaks directly of a "prayer language."

Hi Jo - What do you think of 1 Corinthians 14:2? - 'For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.'

Do you not see 'speaking' to God as prayer?

Mutzrein, could you please interpret this for me? Thanks!

"alla balla bella kemma, juru arauku bamma, warteh spiruh juannacarama fonsitana gillutrala"

Sure. It means that you have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[mutzrein]

Do you not see 'speaking' to God as prayer?

Why would anyone pray without knowing what he is praying for? He might even be praying to evil one.

.

I commune with God with my mind AND my spirit. There are some things, in my communion with Him, that are not able to expressed with my mind and since the Spirit of God dwells within me, I speak with Him in manner known only to Him.

As far as praying to 'evil one' is concerned, that is not possible for one who is born of the Spirit of God.