Justified while Ungodly !

[Danus]

So those without faith are justified?

Sure if Christ died for them, they are Justified by His Blood ! Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Faith surly is as much a gift as mercy, but that does not help thous who are lost and enslaved to sin if we condense the good news down to a maybe, maybe not, does it? ;)

A seeker, in his effort, still finds, and while that my be their destiny it is still our privilege to help light the way.

 

[savedbygrace57]

danus

Faith surly is as much a gift as mercy

Sure it is, and so is Grace, however both Mercy and Grace were given the Elect in Christ before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

The Elect were also by that grace given, Justified before God before the world began Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

The Elect of God are born into this world as sinners and ungodly by nature before God like other men, but this ine difference, unlike other men, they are Justified before God by that Grace given them in Christ before the world began !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Justified by His Grace before the world began !

Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


This Grace by which God's Elect are Justified was given them in Him before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So if Grace was given them so early, then Justification by that Grace was given to at the same date !

Also were they accepted in Him at that date ! Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace [Given 2 Tim 1:9], wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.


60

 

[savedbygrace57]

What false religion does not know and understand, but at the same time that Christ was setup as the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant, the transgressions of all He represented, all the Father gave Him, they were charged to Him or imputed to Him, and so at that time they were discharged from all their guilt they would incur and declared Righteous or Justified !

 

[felix]

nm


I know what Ungodly is, everyone is born that way ! Including Abraham !

Do you have any Scriptural proof that everyone is born ungodly?

 

[Grazer]

It makes sense that we are born ungodly otherwise Jesus wouldn't have had to do what he did. Its been said many times we can't save ourselves, we can't make ourselves right with God, we need Jesus to do that for us to intercede on our behalf.

 

[felix]

It makes sense that we are born ungodly otherwise Jesus wouldn't have had to do what he did. Its been said many times we can't save ourselves, we can't make ourselves right with God, we need Jesus to do that for us to intercede on our behalf.

Christ death was not just about redeeming us from sins as God was able to forgive us even before Christ's death. Christ's ultimate sacrifice was to defeat death itself, the curse spoken by God where all mankind is suffering from. This is one of the important reason Christ had to die and have victory over death to give us eternal life. When God spoke something, it never returns to Him void, but had seen Him delay it. So, if God cursed man to death in Eden, His Word never returns void and we will all die. Hence, the only person who can challenge God's Word is God's Word Himself. This is why God's word had to come down in flesh and die for us all to save us all from "death". I explained it better here in my blog.

 

[felix]

nm



Sure they can, and are, that is just in your imagination ! Christ died for the elect while they were ungodly Rom 5:6

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

The elect, as the non elect, the wicked, come from the womb speaking lies Ps 58:3

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+58:2-4&version=KJV
Is speaking lies ungodly behaviour ?

(Ps 58:3) The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

No baby can speak a word after as soon as they are born. How can lie as the verse suggests?

Clearly David is comparing the level of wickedness rooted in them as if they were speaking lies just as they were born - just as he compared in the next verse about their poison and being like a deaf cobra.

 

[savedbygrace57]

When Paul teaches that one is Justified by Faith, Rom 5:1, he does not mean as the false teachers tell us, that one is Justified before God because of our act of faith or of believing, but that God given Faith embraces a Righteousness revealed to it, that was not our own Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein[The Gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Phil 3:9

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

The false teachers tells us that God counts their own faith as their Righteousness, which contradicts this very Truth !

 

[felix]

When Paul teaches that one is Justified by Faith, Rom 5:1, he does not mean as the false teachers tell us, that one is Justified before God because of our act of faith or of believing, but that God given Faith embraces a Righteousness revealed to it, that was not our own Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein[The Gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Phil 3:9

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

The false teachers tells us that God counts their own faith as their Righteousness, which contradicts this very Truth !

Paul also describes what Faith in Christ really mean:

(Acts 24:24-25) And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Now as he reasoned about

1. righteousness,
2. self-control, and
3. the judgment to come,

Felix was afraid and answered, "Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you."

Faith in Christ = Righteousness + Self-control + Judgment

 

[savedbygrace57]

The ungodly Elect are Justified by the blood of Christ alone before God's bar of Justice, before they know of it and embrace it by Faith, and so Rom 5:1 means that God given Faith has now embraced or received the fact of having been afore time Justified by Christ's Blood Rom 5:9 or His Grace Titus 3:7; 2 Tim 1:9; It is then Faith introduces us into the Grace that we stand Rom 5:2 in before God because of the Blood and Merits of Christ on our behalf !

The NASB is good here for Rom 5:2

through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

However the Elect's whole unconverted life was spent under the Justifying blood of Christ, being preserved until being called Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Calling follows being preserved. Paul recognized his preservation until called also by grace Gal 1:15

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

You see, regardless if we realize it by faith or not, the Blood of Christ has paid the sin debt one owed to God's Law and Justice, that was incurred in Adam and in our own physical persons. You see it is the Blood of Christ that had the Justifying merit before God, not our act of believing it ! Our believing it is only God giving us our own comfort and assurance of it !

 

[Jack Straw]

Originally posted by felix,

Paul also describes what Faith in Christ really mean:

(Acts 24:24-25) And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Now as he reasoned about
righteousness,
self-control, and
the judgment to come,
Felix was afraid and answered, "Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you."

Faith in Christ = Righteousness + Self-control + Judgment

Galatians 2:16: "We are justified BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST."

Read the above verse AGAIN!

We are justified by Christ's faith, NOT ours. We are saved because of His commitment, not ours. We are saved because of His righteousness, not ours. Faith and commitment ARE GIFTS.

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For in grace, through faith, are you saved, AND THIS IS NOT OUT OF YOU; it is THE GIFT of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should be boasting."

"Not of works" means that nothing from YOUR hand or YOUR mind made salvation happen. It was nothing YOU did or willed. It was nothing YOU said ... no particular combination of words or syllables roused the Savior to love you. It wasn't some unbiblical sinner's prayer that YOU repeated, or the sweat from YOUR brow, or sacrifices that YOU made, NOTHING! He saved you, WHILE YOU WERE A SINNER (Romans 5:8). All that remains now is for you to thank Him.

Most of Christendom has it backwards....they believe we need to win God's favor. However, Salvation is God's gift to humanity.... it is God's way of winning OUR favor. He loved us while we were yet sinners; remember? It is OUR favor that needs to be won, not His. Our self-righteous form of religion does not win His favor. Instead, it is a stench in His nostrils. All religion does is exalt men over other men. God's favor cannot be won, nor does it need to be.

If the way to life is presented as humanity approaching God rather than God approaching humanity, then the religion is false. Most Christians believe that gifts be brought to God in the form of works (i.e. - faith enough to please Him, etc.), for only then can His favor be won and salvation secured. These are not God's requirements, they are the devil's requirements, and the means by which he blinds and enslaves humanity (through religion). And what is humanity (including Christianity) blinded to:

2 Corinthians 5:19: "God was in Christ reconciling THE WORLD to Himself, NOT COUNTING THEIR TRESPASSES AGAINST THEM"

1 Timothy 4:10: "We have fixed our hope on the living God, Who is the Savior OF ALL MEN, especially of those who believe."

1 Corinthians 15:22: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall ALL BE MADE ALIVE."

John 12:32: "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN to myself."

Colossians 1:19-20: "For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross."

1 Timothy 2:3-4: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."


FAITH IN CHRIST = When God says that you are righteous and blameless in His sight because of the FAITH OF HIS SON - BELIEVE HIM!

God bless and peace. :peace

 

[savedbygrace57]

jack

Most of Christendom has it backwards....they believe we need to win God's
favor. However, Salvation is God's gift to humanity.

Some of Humanity, not to that segment that Christ will say this to Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And you see, Salvation is only a Gift through Him Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[savedbygrace57]

In the Mind of God !

In the Mind of God , a Person whom Christ died in behalf of is no more Justified after they believe, than they were before they believed, for God's Justification of one does not depend upon the act of man, which believing is, for if we believe not, He remains faithful [to the Covenant with His Son] and that is to Justify by His Blood, all for whom He died and Represented !

 

[felix]

Galatians 2:16: "We are justified BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST."

Read the above verse AGAIN!

Did you read the "definition" of "Faith in Christ" ??

(Acts 24:24-25) And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Now as he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, "Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you."

Felix is not reasoning Paul's righteousness but "Righteousness of Christ" which will give you faith in Christ as in 2Pet 1:1. Paul is not saying about his version of self control but the fruit of Spirit according to Gal 5:22. Paul is speaking about a fearful judgment for every believer who willfully sins as in Heb 10:26-27.

Without righteousness in Christ, fruit of the Spirit called Self-Control and the fear of judgment for any willful sinning, then s/he is no believer and does not have faith in Christ according to Scriptures.

(Jas 2:14) What [does it] profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
Ans: No

(Eph 2:8-9) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Is it faith that saves?
Ans: No, It is grace that saves through faith.

What is grace?
(Titus 2:11-14) For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself [His] own special people, zealous for good works.

Is grace sounds like works to you?
(Heb 12:15) looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

The point is, you are not saved through works but by grace through faith. But faith without works is dead. It is not that works are not required but it is not going to save you. Your faith must have works which can justify you. Or else, you will fall short of grace of God.

Faith only is a false doctrine. I haven't seen a single scripture verse that says that. The verses that speaks about saved by faith and not by works are all referring to "works of the law" not "works of what James is referring to" which has nothing to do with the law.

 

[savedbygrace57]

It is not Faith itself that Justifies the Elect, but God Himself Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

It is He that Imputes Righteousness unto them on behalf of Christ's Work for them, and that is what Faith has at it's view when God reveals this Righteousness Inputed by the Preaching of the Gospel to them Rom 1:16-17, so it is each child of Abraham will as Abraham did, have the Gospel Preached individually to them Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

By the Spirit's application of it to their minds and hearts, and God given Faith will embrace it and embrace Him that did Justify, God or God through Christ Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[savedbygrace57]

To be Justified by Faith we have Peace with God !


Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

To be Justified by Faith we have Peace with God : But now Christ is Our Peace with God before We believe Eph 2:14 However ones Peace consciously or knowingly comes through our believing after it is revealed , by the Power of the Holy Spirit Rom 15:13

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Now Being Justified by His Blood !

Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Being rendered Righteous by His Blood. Now what Paul means is that God has imputed Righteousness to everyone Christ has died for, which also ensures they all will be saved from wrath [second death] through Him. No one Christ died shall ever see the Wrath of God ! 1 Thess 1:10

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Fact that Christ was raised from the dead after dying for all those He died for, that fact ensures they all shall be and even are delivered from the Wrath to come ! Rom 4:25 tells us all whom He died, that His resurrection in their behalf evidences their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for [because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Thats why Paul says " Now being Justified by His Blood" because the resurrection proved that the Blood did just that ! Isa writes Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He Justified many because He bear their iniquties or shed His Blood !

The word Justify in Isa 53:11 is the hebrew word tsadaq and means:


to be just, be righteous

a) (Qal)

1) to have a just cause, be in the right

2) to be justified

3) to be just (of God)

4) to be just, be righteous (in conduct and character)

b) (Niphal) to be put or made right, be justified

c) (Piel) justify, make to appear righteous, make someone righteous

d) (Hiphil)

1) to do or bring justice (in administering law)

2) to declare righteous, justify

3) to justify, vindicate the cause of, save

4) to make righteous, turn to righteousness

e) (Hithpael) to justify oneself

So everyone He died for is declared Righteous, so Imputation has taken Place.

This declaration is before Faith or before we believe, for Christ's Blood was accepted by God In satisfaction for all the sins of everyone He died for over 2000 yrs ago, which means our Justification by Christ's Blood is at least that old !

 

[Mitspa]

Re: Now Being Justified by His Blood !

Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Being rendered Righteous by His Blood. Now what Paul means is that God has imputed Righteousness to everyone Christ has died for, which also ensures they all will be saved from wrath [second death] through Him. No one Christ died shall ever see the Wrath of God ! 1 Thess 1:10

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Fact that Christ was raised from the dead after dying for all those He died for, that fact ensures they all shall be and even are delivered from the Wrath to come ! Rom 4:25 tells us all whom He died, that His resurrection in their behalf evidences their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for [because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Thats why Paul says " Now being Justified by His Blood" because the resurrection proved that the Blood did just that ! Isa writes Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He Justified many because He bear their iniquties or shed His Blood !

The word Justify in Isa 53:11 is the hebrew word tsadaq and means:


to be just, be righteous

a) (Qal)

1) to have a just cause, be in the right

2) to be justified

3) to be just (of God)

4) to be just, be righteous (in conduct and character)

b) (Niphal) to be put or made right, be justified

c) (Piel) justify, make to appear righteous, make someone righteous

d) (Hiphil)

1) to do or bring justice (in administering law)

2) to declare righteous, justify

3) to justify, vindicate the cause of, save

4) to make righteous, turn to righteousness

e) (Hithpael) to justify oneself

So everyone He died for is declared Righteous, so Imputation has taken Place.

This declaration is before Faith or before we believe, for Christ's Blood was accepted by God In satisfaction for all the sins of everyone He died for over 2000 yrs ago, which means our Justification by Christ's Blood is at least that old !

So all that reject truth and mercy, all that love rebellion and serve the enemy of God? All that love to hate and destroy what is good? All that despise His life and the Glory of His goodness? You are wrong!

Rom 1:18

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19


Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[savedbygrace57]

mitsa

So all that reject truth and mercy, all that love rebellion and serve the
enemy of God?

What can you point out in post 78 that is not correct ? If you are here to debate what I have stated, you can begin by showing me whats wrong or not substantiated by scripture what I have posted.