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Justified while Ungodly !

savedbygrace57 said:
mitsa



What can you point out in post 78 that is not correct ? If you are here to debate what I have stated, you can begin by showing me whats wrong or not substantiated by scripture what I have posted.
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Well your post is correct for those who have accepted Christ by Faith. Not for those who reject the salvation of Christ, by faith. The point the Apostle Paul was making was that no sinner can say that after hearing the "gospel" they do not need to accept "Christ" savlation by faith! For the Gospel declares ALL MEN are sinners and need come to Christ for salvation. Any who reject that message is without an excuse before God the Father and subject to His wrath.
 
mitsa

Well your post is correct for those who have accepted Christ by Faith.
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I never said that in my post, so you need to point out anything in my post that is not correct from scripture.

If you cannot constructively rebut any of the points I made with scripture, then why are you debating what I posted ?

The facts that I presented never said a thing about anyone accepting Christ by Faith !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
mitsa



I never said that in my post, so you need to point out anything in my post that is not correct from scripture.

If you cannot constructively rebut any of the points I made with scripture, then why are you debating what I posted ?

The facts that I presented never said a thing about anyone accepting Christ by Faith !
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The gospel of salvation is for those who believe. The wrath of God for those who reject it. That was my point:)
 
Mitspa said:
The gospel of salvation is for those who believe. The wrath of God for those who reject it. That was my point:)
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Are you going to address the points in the post you quoted of mine or not. If not, I am going to put you on ignore, so far you are nothing but mouth,m all talk.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Are you going to address the points in the post you quoted of mine or not. If not, I am going to put you on ignore, so far you are nothing but mouth,m all talk.
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You mean there is a button or a way to ignore some one elses post? You do remember posting the same post to me over and over again for several days on
'The Power of the Cross" thread?:o
You do what you like, you have not showed any desire for a honest dialog with me or any others that I have seen. You may think you get to decide who God saves but He has established His Own laws that "YOU" seem to know little about or care to learn? I guess this is goodbye :wave
 
Mitspa said:
You mean there is a button or a way to ignore some one elses post? You do remember posting the same post to me over and over again for several days on
'The Power of the Cross" thread?:o
You do what you like, you have not showed any desire for a honest dialog with me or any others that I have seen. You may think you get to decide who God saves but He has established His Own laws that "YOU" seem to know little about or care to learn? I guess this is goodbye :wave
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Yeah this is good by, you are not worth anymore of my time. See ya at the Judgment.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Yeah this is good by, you are not worth anymore of my time. See ya at the Judgment.
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:toofunny The only people you think will be "judged" are those who dont buy into your doctrines of "faithless grace"? I will be glad to be counted with Abraham and the others of (Heb 11)




Heb 11:6

 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.:clap
 
If God Justifieth the Ungodly, then it is reasonable to conclude that God did Justify them, all for whom Christ died, before they had yet been given saving Faith, and while they were ungodly enemies ! Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The word ungodly here is the greek word asebēs and means:


destitute of reverential awe towards God, condemning God, impious

Everyone Christ died for and Justified by His Blood[Rom 4:25], are being born into the world ungodly, but they are already Justified by Christ's Blood, if Christ did die for them !

Thats why Paul preaches that we is Justified freely by Grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Death ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
 
Justified before God before and apart from Faith !


That all for whom Christ died, shed His Blood for, gave Himself for, that they are all Justified before God by it [His Blood] even as the blessed resurrection so declares it Rom 4:25: That this is the case is collaborated by the Truth of Rom 5:19b

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That by the one obedience [active and passive] of ONE MAN ALONE [Jesus Christ] many SHALL be made Righteous, or as the Prophet Isaiah says it, He shall Justify many Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Some Translate like this

ESV Isa 53:11

Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see[a] and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.

So it is by the obedience of ONE, shall many be declared Righteous or Justified. Now this comes about by only the obedience of One, and not Two, which would be the case if Faith by the believer is being considered, in that, that is also obedience, as in the obedience of Faith [believing] Rom 16:26

26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—

Also Rom 10:16-17

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?â€

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

These makes it clear that Faith is an act of obedience to the Gospel. Those who say Faith is not an act of obedience, are LIARS,plain and simple.

But according to the Truth of Rom 5:19b, many shall be made righteous, and that not by the obedience of Two, but one ! To deny this, debate it, is nothing but rejection of the Gospel Truth !
 
The Just shall live by Faith !


That those Christ died for are Justified before they believe, made Righteous or Just Rom 5:19

by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

That word righteous is the greek word dikaios and is translated Just 33 times, for instance here Rom 1:16-17


17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So Rom 5:19 could actually read:

by the obedience of one shall many be made Just

The obedience here is His Death, by His obedience unto death [Phil 2:8] shall many be made Just !

Now, all those who are Just [Justified] by His Obedience, shall live by Faith in the future.

So clearly, being made Just or Justified, precedes living by Faith. This is Justification before God before Faith !

Gal 3:11

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Heb 10:38

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Hab 2:4

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
 
Justified by Grace ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Justification is a gracious act of God, because of the redemption in Christ's Blood Eph 1:7 !

That even when unworthy in ourselves, and ungodly Rom 5:6; Rom 4:5, God does freely acquit us, that is all for whom Christ died, of all Transgressions of His Law, and accepts us into His Favour and declares us Righteous, with a Righteousness that has been freely imputed to us, even while we ourselves are in unbelief !

This free and gracious Justification of All for whom Christ died, will in God's time, will be revealed to each of them for whom He died and Justified, so they shall live by Faith !

Faith being not a condition, but a means of revealing or making known that Justification, that already exists in God's Mind, that is already credited to ones account, because of Christ's redemptive blood.
 
Faith being not a condition !


Faith being not a condition, but a means of revealing or making known that Justification, that already exists in God's Mind, that is already credited to ones account, because of Christ's redemptive blood.

Justification by Faith is how God has ordained that the Justified ones find out about and realize their Justification freely given to them by God through Jesus Christ ! This is why it is written, the Just or Justified shall live by Faith, hence everyone Christ died for and shed His Blood for, are Justified before God because of it [Rom 5:9] they must be given Faith, a Fruit of the Spirit of God, to embrace and receive consciously that Peace with God, which Christ's redemptive blood accomplished for them as God's Elect, and so is so called " The Faith of God's Elect"

Those who take Justification by Faith [ Rom 5:1] and declare it to be a condition of man, that he must meet, in order to God to Justify them, they PERVERT the Truth of Justification by Grace and Faith, and do preach a false and accursed Gospel. That Justification is received by Faith, as it is revealed to the Justified one, we most heartily agree, but to state that it is a condition in order to get Justified before God, we reject as criminal and Apostate !
 
Faith is not the causative reason for one's Justification before God unless we are strictly speaking of Christ's Faith or Faithfulness, but rather it is the sense, or perception, and evidence of ones Justification [ Heb 11:1] for it is Christ's Righteousness as imputed that only Justifies before God, and this is revealed from Faith to Faith to heaven born Faith ! Faith is a spiritual grace or fruit [Gal 5:22] and enabling produced by the Holy Spirit of God that gives the redeemed sinner eyes to see in Christ a imputed Righteousness, now having by Him also convicted of our own sinfulness by nature, we do turn from our own Righteousness, and succumb to the Righteousness we have had revealed to us by the Gospel, provided by Christ Rom 1:16-17, hence the Spirit of God bears witness with our spirit that we are indeed Justified and do have peace with God through Jesus Christ, and do become evidentially as well as declaratively Justified by the Spirit of God 1 Cor 6:11. Now Faith reveals to the Elect sinner, their state in Christ, and their free gift of Righteousness through Him Rom 5:17-18

17For if by one man's offense death reigned by one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ.

18Therefore as by the offense of one, judgment to condemnation came upon all men, even so by the righteousness of One, the free gift unto justification of life came upon all men.
 
God's Justification of His Elect is Twofold, it is first and foremost forensic and declarative of God's Mind, and then it is experimental or internal, fir then God causes the Justified to live like it by Faith, for the experimental comes by the New Birth. All those whom God Justifies judicially by the Blood of Christ and His Grace Alone per Rom 5:9;3:24 shall be Justified experimentally by the Spirit 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

This scripture confirms a first Justification by Christ, His Blood, or in His Name, followed by the Justification the Spirit accomplishes, which is also because of Christ's Name or in recognition of His Work ! Hence God gives grace for the living according to their Judicial status. That is why it is imperative that all for whom Christ died, must be born again Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous [experimentally by New Birth].

In addition to making Christ's obedience the sole basis of forensic Justification, it is also the sole basis for constitutive righteousness which is brought to pass by New Birth !
 
Sometimes disobedient

Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Even though the Elect by Nature were disobedient, yet even then, Paul never classified them and neither were they ever " The children of disobedience" as per Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

In the greek the children of disobedience reads "toiv uioiv thv apeiqeiav;:

The definite article makes it clear that these are a definite group of people, they are the vessels of wrath Paul writes on in Rom 9:22. In other words, the children of disobedience will always be the children of disobedience !

The Elect, even though by Nature are children of wrath as others, and walk according to the prince of the power of the air, yet they have already been accepted or Highly Favored in the Beloved Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Yes, they have that status before God, by Grace, prior to their actual quickening in the Time state Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

The difference, the Elect, because of Christ's obedience, they shall be made Righteous ! Rom 5:19 and this is done by their New Birth by the Spirit, which causes their obedience to the Truth 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Belief of the Truth and obedience are the same !
 
Faith believes on Him that Justifieth the ungodly. That is God given faith receives the Divine Testimony that God Justified His People solely upon Christ's death per Rom 8:33-34, and not on account of any works or conditions performed by men, but while they were being ungodly and enemies in themselves, God was justifying them by the death of His Son ! Also God imputes righteousness to all for whom Christ died or was made sin for 2 Cor 5:21; Rom 5:19 without works, this is testified Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Now without works means without believing, for believing is a work performed by the mind of man. The word works ergon means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

So now if God imputes Righteousness because one did believe a testimony, then Rom 4:6 cannot be true ! If God justifies any sinner or accounts them righteous because of believing, then He is responding to good, virtuous dispositions within him the man, which cannot be if He is Justifying the Ungodly. Ungodly means:

destitute of reverential awe towards God, condemning God, impious

For Paul writes 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

And this fact of accomplishment s received by God given Faith !
 
The ungodly are lost, Psa 1:5-6 1 Pet 4:18 and they remain lost until they conditionally meet the requirement of faith/belief.


Nowhere does the bible say that God justifies the ungodly unconditionally.


Rom 4:4,5 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Abraham (and David) were ungodly men in that both committed sins. But God did not justify them unconditionally in their sins but their justification required belief. Belief includes repentance of sins. So the sinner must first repent..." Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance".
"But believeth" in Rom 4:5 is the condition the ungodly must meet to be justifed.


Rom 4:6-8 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."


The phrase "without works" in verse 6 refers to works of merit of verse 4 and not obedience. David did not 'do nothing' about his sins, he did something, he repented.

THe passage points out that God will either impute sin or impute righteousness. Yet God will not impute sin to the one "whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered".

Not a single verses says one gets their inquities forgiven and sin covered by doing nothing, but one must do the obedient work of repenting to have iniquities forgiven and sins covered. God will NOT impute righteousness to the disobedient impenitent..."But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;" Rom 2:5
 
It is God who Justifies !

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Now who shall lay anything to the charge[Against] of God's Elect ? It is God that Justifieth [declares righteous]

Quite frankly here, the non charge by God regarding His Elect, is their Justification !

Nothing of the Elect's performance is regarded in the matter. Now who are those whom God will not lay charges against ? Quite frankly it is for all those Christ died, which reasonably means, the charges that should have been laid or charged against them, were laid or charged upon Him, leaving them Justified by God !

God did not lay iniquity upon them, but upon Him Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid[or charged or to strike] on him the iniquity of us all.
 
Justified by His Grace before the world began !

Rom 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


This Grace by which God's Elect are Justified was given them in Him before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

So if Grace was given them so early, then Justification by that Grace was given to at the same date !

Also were they accepted in Him at that date ! Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace [Given 2 Tim 1:9], wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.



60
 
What false religion does not know and understand, but at the same time that Christ was setup as the Surety of the Everlasting Covenant, the transgressions of all He represented, all the Father gave Him, they were charged to Him or imputed to Him, and so at that time they were discharged from all their guilt they would incur and declared Righteous or Justified !
 
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