LAW

[jasonc]

As I understand it, Sephardic Hebrew is Biblical Hebrew and Sephardic is becoming more popular as the language of modern Hebrew.

no, ancient Hebrew cant be coming back fully, Hebrew doesn't have the word for synagogue. that is from the greek word for gathering and Lutherans use the original koine greek word of synod. languages must adapt.

 

[JLB]

There is nothing in the Law that is of faith. However, faith leads to obeying the Law. Faith without works is dead (James 2:20). Among those works is obedience to the Law of Yahweh which is the Law of Moses. Faith does not make void the Law. It establishes the Law (Romans 3:31).

The law of Moses says you must put to death anyone who profanes the Sabbath!

The law of Moses says you must put to death anyone who commits Adultery!

The law of Mose says to sacrifice animals for sin....

The law of Moses requires physical Circumcision....

And on and on and on....

Is the Church required to do these things?

You must do ALL THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW, OR BE UNDER A CURSE!


9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." Galatians 3:9-10

It's all the law of Moses or nothing!


Now the law of God, which Abraham kept, is the Moral Law, which is the Royal Law.


Love God, and love your neighbor.


JLB

 

[JLB]

So the Pharisee Saul had the Law, knew the Law, taught the Law, and didn't understand to love his neighbor as himself. AND the authorities above him, had the Law, knew the Law, and didn't understand to love their neighbor as themselves? And didn't understand who their neighbor was?

 

[Deborah13]

As I understand it, Sephardic Hebrew is Biblical Hebrew and Sephardic is becoming more popular as the language of modern Hebrew.

It is my understanding that....
When the Jews where forced out of Israel the group called Sephardic moved to places like Spain and Portugal. The dialect of the Sephardic was influenced by the languages around them just as the Yiddish is a dialect of the original Hebrew that was influenced by the languages around them.

 

[jocor]

You say that if one does not observe days, weeks, and months it is sin. If that is true then it must be necessary that we do them. BUT I don't see where YHVH included them in the NT as being necessary, do you? He made sure all these other sins were listed in the NT, why not those?
And if they are necessary for holiness then surely circumcision is necessary too. If not, why not?

They do not need to be included in the NT as "necessary". How do you know Yeshua did not discuss their necessity since he taught much more than what we have in our Bibles? The NT does not list all sins. For example, where does the NT reiterate Deuteronomy 4:2? Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of YHWH your Elohim which I command you. Surely you believe this command still exists.

Circumcision is necessary as far as the circumcision of the heart is concerned. It is also necessary to obey the law of physical circumcision, but not in order to be justified or saved. However, an exception was made for new adult converts who were not circumcised on the 8th day. The male children of believers should be circumcised.

 

[jasonc]

It is my understanding that....
When the Jews where forced out of Israel the group called Sephardic moved to places like Spain and Portugal. The dialect of the Sephardic was influenced by the languages around them just as the Yiddish is a dialect of the original Hebrew that was influenced by the languages around them.

according to jewfact. org that is the correct.

 

[jocor]

So the Pharisee Saul had the Law, knew the Law, taught the Law, and didn't understand to love his neighbor as himself. AND the authorities above him, had the Law, knew the Law, and didn't understand to love their neighbor as themselves? And didn't understand who their neighbor was?

Correct. Why do you think Yeshua gave the parable of the Good Samaritan?

 

[jocor]

You must do ALL THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW, OR BE UNDER A CURSE!

This is true concerning the Law as it was administered under the OC. Now it is administered under the NC wherein there is no curse.

 

[Deborah13]

They do not need to be included in the NT as "necessary". How do you know Yeshua did not discuss their necessity since he taught much more than what we have in our Bibles? The NT does not list all sins. For example, where does the NT reiterate Deuteronomy 4:2? Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of YHWH your Elohim which I command you. Surely you believe this command still exists.

Interesting, is the Talmud adding to the commands that YHVH gave. The Messiah seemed to say the Pharisees had been adding to the Law. From the scripture you quoted shouldn't they have known that seeing that they had the Torah?
I would know not to do this because YHVH is the author of the Bible so if I intentionally did that I would be a liar, which Paul said lying is sin.

Circumcision is necessary as far as the circumcision of the heart is concerned. It is also necessary to obey the law of physical circumcision, but not in order to be justified or saved. However, an exception was made for new adult converts who were not circumcised on the 8th day. The male children of believers should be circumcised.

Really? Paul said there was no difference between the physically circumcised and the uncircumcised in Christ.

 

[jasonc]

the Talmud wasn't around then. it was the midrash.

 

[jocor]

Interesting, is the Talmud adding to the commands that YHVH gave. The Messiah seemed to say the Pharisees had been adding to the Law. From the scripture you quoted shouldn't they have known that seeing that they had the Torah?
I would know not to do this because YHVH is the author of the Bible so if I intentionally did that I would be a liar, which Paul said lying is sin.

There is no doubt the Pharisees added to the law and caused people to break Yahweh's commandments. Yes, they should have known it was wrong. That is the nature of sin. It deceives and slays. If the Talmud does the same, it is equally guilty.

What if you unintentionally did that? Would you still be a liar?

Men intentionally remove the Hebrew tetragrammaton (YHWH) and replaced it with "yod yod" in Hebrew in the congregation I attend. Men removed "YHWH" from the text and substituted 'the LORD" in its place. I won't have any part in such lies which is why I use "Yahweh" which is the closest transliteration of the name I know of. For me to continue to use "the LORD", knowing it is an outright man-made substitute for truth, is to condone the lies.

 

[Deborah13]

This is true concerning the Law as it was administered under the OC. Now it is administered under the NC wherein there is no curse.

So are you saying that under the OC which was the Law of Moses and was administered by Moses, is now, under the NT, the same Law and is now the Law of the Spirit and administered by the Spirit?
I thought I had read in the NT that Moses was the mediator of the Law of Moses and I don't see in scripture that the Messiah is ever said to be the new mediator of the Law of Moses? I thought the new came and the old was fading away?

Young's Literal Translation
1Ti 1:7 willing to be teachers of law, not understanding either the things they say, nor concerning what they asseverate,
1Ti 1:8 and we have known that the law is good, if any one may use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 having known this, that for a righteous man law is not set, but for lawless and insubordinate persons, ungodly and sinners, impious and profane, parricides and matricides, men-slayers,
1Ti 1:10 whoremongers, sodomites, men-stealers, liars, perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that to sound doctrine is adverse,
1Ti 1:11 according to the good news of the glory of the blessed God, with which I was entrusted.

We as believers in Messiah....
2Co 5:19 how that God was in Christ--a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation,
2Co 5:20 in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, `Be ye reconciled to God;'
2Co 5:21 for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient to be ministrants of a new covenant, not of letter, but of spirit; for the letter doth kill, and the spirit doth make alive.
2Co 3:7 and if the ministration of the death, in letters, engraved in stones, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look stedfastly to the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face--which was being made useless,
2Co 3:8 how shall the ministration of the Spirit not be more in glory?

 

[JLB]

Paul was obeying orders from those in authority over him. To them, the followers of Messiah were not neighbors, but enemies of the faith.

This is what The religion of Judaism taught.


JLB

 

[JLB]

However, faith leads to obeying the Law. Faith without works is dead (James 2:20). Among those works is obedience to the Law of Yahweh which is the Law of Moses. Faith does not make void the Law. It establishes the Law (Romans 3:31).

Faith does not lead to obeying Moses law, for by the works of the law is no man justified!

Those who are of the works of the law are under a curse.

James does not mention the works of the law, but the action of obedience, or the work of obeying God.

Faith comes by hearing God. A living faith is an obedient faith.

The "works" that justified Abraham was his obedience to sacrifice Isaac, not the works of the law!

18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:18-24

There is nothing in the Law that is of faith.

Then, there is nothing in the law of Moses that is part of the New Covenant.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

There is no doubt the Pharisees added to the law and caused people to break Yahweh's commandments. Yes, they should have known it was wrong. That is the nature of sin. It deceives and slays. If the Talmud does the same, it is equally guilty.

The Talmud adds a lot of traditions, and oral law, that are not in the OT.

What if you unintentionally did that? Would you still be a liar?

That's an interesting question and I think it would depend on the circumstances. The easy answer would be that one is only lying if the know they are telling a lie. But on the other hand say someone repeats something they heard and believed but it wasn't the truth about someone else than maybe that would be considered lying, so no gossiping. The Gnostics really didn't believe they sinned but they were horrible sinners and John said that was lying to say one had not sinned.

Men intentionally remove the Hebrew tetragrammaton (YHWH) and replaced it with "yod yod" in Hebrew in the congregation I attend. Men removed "YHWH" from the text and substituted 'the LORD" in its place. I won't have any part in such lies which is why I use "Yahweh" which is the closest transliteration of the name I know of. For me to continue to use "the LORD", knowing it is an outright man-made substitute for truth, is to condone the lies.

You know that is one reason I like Young's Literal Translation. When the text says YHVH, it says Jehovah. NOW, don't have a come apart. I know that to pronounce YHVH with a 'J' sound and Jesus as well, is incorrect. But do you really think that the way it is pronounced in different languages offends YHVH, I don't think so He is much bigger a personality than to be offended by that. ie, In Hebrew, King Daved, long e sound, in English David, short i sound and in both cases the 'v' sounds like a 'v'.
Young's only uses Lord and lord when the Hebrew says adonai, which I believe is a correct translation. Here's a good explanation maybe of how all that happened.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/840-adonai

A Karaite Jew will tell you that there is no law against saying the name of God, that is simply tradition of the rabbis. I agree, don't see that in the OT either.

Blessings to you, jocor

 

[JLB]

This is true concerning the Law as it was administered under the OC. Now it is administered under the NC wherein there is no curse.

That's just it, the law of Moses carries a curse, whereas in the new covenant, those who are under the law are redeemed from the law.

Gentiles living in America are in no wise under the law of Moses.

The curse comes from those who try to keep part of the law of Moses.

Just exactly what you are suggesting.

Paul calls this partial law keeping, turning away from Christ.


JLB

 

[jocor]

Do you confess Jesus Christ as YHWH [Lord], God manifested in the Flesh, the creator of all things?


Yes or No ?


JLB

No, but I do confess him as my Lord.

 

[jocor]

The law of Moses says you must put to death anyone who profanes the Sabbath!

The law of Moses says you must put to death anyone who commits Adultery!

The law of Mose says to sacrifice animals for sin....

The law of Moses requires physical Circumcision....

And on and on and on....

Is the Church required to do these things?

You must do ALL THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW, OR BE UNDER A CURSE!


9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." Galatians 3:9-10

It's all the law of Moses or nothing!


Now the law of God, which Abraham kept, is the Moral Law, which is the Royal Law.


Love God, and love your neighbor.


JLB

Galatians 3:13 Messiah has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree:
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish (make stand) the law.
​

The Law stands, the curse falls.

 

[jocor]

It is my understanding that....
When the Jews where forced out of Israel the group called Sephardic moved to places like Spain and Portugal. The dialect of the Sephardic was influenced by the languages around them just as the Yiddish is a dialect of the original Hebrew that was influenced by the languages around them.

Every language is influenced by other languages. Sephardic pronounces the Hebrew letters as they are written. For example, the word "Shabbat" ends in a "T" sound just as the Hebrew word does since it ends with a "tav". However, the Ashkenazi pronunciation ends in an "S' sound, "Shabbos".

 

[JLB]

No, but I do confess him as my Lord.

There is one LORD and He is God.