LAW

[th1b.taylor]

I know this sounds good, but Paul boiled ALL TEN of them down into the second greatest command:

"9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." (Romans 13:9 NASB italics/emboldening mine)

When we love our neighbor as ourselves we fulfill ALL TEN, not just the last six.

May I note that it is this splitting of the Ten Commandments up into four and six that law keepers do to defend their argument that we still have to keep a literal Mosaic Sabbath. I counter with the fact that Paul says that we fulfill ALL TEN of them to God's complete satisfaction when our faith in Christ finds expression in love for others. Faith in Christ fulfills the law, not abolishes it. You will not be guilty of breaking ANY of the Ten Commandments when you are loving others as yourself. Rather you will be upholding them.

I have never taught keeping the Law in any form other than as it was meant to be kept, as a teacher. But I cannot argue with Jesus/God over the Ten being best represented in the two He gave us. Paul is not God, even though he spent three years seat at the feet of Jesus in a one on one tutoring situation but I'll need Jesus to confirm that we can just love our neighbor to honor God.


As I just shared from Paul's teaching, loving others is the fulfillment of all the commandments. Therefore, the fulfilling of the Ten Commandments--love for others-- is indeed a 24/7/365 act of worship.

Jesus did say 'love God' is the greatest command, but it's interesting that 'love others' is how we do that. John said it's impossible to honestly say you love God if you do not actively love your neighbor. In fact, loving our neighbor is how we love (obey) God. That's why the second greatest command is like the first.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hebrews Chapter 4 explains a Sabbath's rest for those who believe, and it is called "today".

Right on!

 

[Deborah13]

Hebrews Chapter 4 explains a Sabbath's rest for those who believe, and it is called "today".

Heb 4:5 and in this place again, `If they shall enter into My rest--;'
Heb 4:6 since then, it remaineth for certain to enter into it, and those who did first hear good news entered not in because of unbelief--
Heb 4:7 again He doth limit a certain day, `To-day,' (in David saying, after so long a time,) as it hath been said, `To-day, if His voice ye may hear, ye may not harden your hearts,'
Psa 95:7 For He is our God, and we the people of His pasture, And the flock of His hand, To-day, if to His voice ye hearken,
Heb 4:8 for if Joshua had given them rest, He would not concerning another day have spoken after these things;
Heb 4:9 there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God,
Heb 4:10 for he who did enter into his rest, he also rested from his works, as God from His own.

David got it. He was one who understood. The Spirit of the Lord taught him and he prophesied.

 

[reba]

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1Co_15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

 

[Deborah13]

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1Co_15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Good scriptures.

 

[JLB]

Hebrews Chapter 4 explains a Sabbath's rest for those who believe, and it is called "today".

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:6-9


JLB

 

[JLB]

Jethro Bodine said -

That is the Biblical definition of love...doing them no harm. Obviously, when we love others we do not murder them. When we love others we have entered into God's appointed Rest. When we love we rest from our own evil labor.

Please give the scripture that states when we love others we have entered God's appointed rest.

That would mean the world, by showing love to a homeless person, has now entered into God's rest.

When we obey God's commandments, it is this action that shows we love God.


Example: When we obey God's written commandment to not lie, but tell the truth to a person, it is by this action that we manifest love for both God and the person.


Then there is the commandment that comes directly from God, as in Obey His Voice.


Example:

The Holy Spirit leads you to pass out tracts in front of the local Crack House.

Instead, you bake some cookies for the Church bake sale to raise money for the new addition which you would love to see be constructed.


One of these is faith working by love, the other is walking in rebellion.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Jethro said -

Help me out here. I don't recall where the scripture is that says this. Perhaps there is also a scripture that says if I love myself I will treat myself to a Pizza Hut pizza with Italian sausage, pepperoni, extra cheese, and--you guessed it--anchovies!

The scriptures do say that when you love someone else you have fulfilled the law of Sabbath. Do you want me to quote it again, or do you know the passage I'm referring to?

No, that is what you say the scripture says.

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'


The scripture says -

Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 22:37-40


as yourself!


If you love God and love your neighbor as yourself, then you will obey God to take a day of rest, so that you will be rested and have the strength to do what pleases God for the rest of the week.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Jethro Bodine said -

What Christ accomplished through his body in bringing us into required rest makes it unnecessary (obsolete) to have to do that through the old literal Mosaic way to do that. That's why the people of God don't have to keep that shadow observance anymore--we've already been brought into Sabbath Rest through Christ.

Shadow observance?

Please explain what you mean by shadow observance.


You mean we don't have to obey this commandment:

4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, Exodus 20:4-5

Is it now permissible by God for us to have carved images of other gods and bow down to them, say just for "luck".

Is this a shadow commandment you are referring to?


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...I'll need Jesus to confirm that we can just love our neighbor to honor God.

'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' (Matthew 25:40 NASB)

It's not that the only thing we have to do is love other people. Of course we seek God in praise and worship and prayer, and in meditation and in study of the word, and so we love and long for him that way. But the Bible is clear that if a person does not love other people, and then claims they love God (because they're doing those other things?), John says that person is a liar. So for all the things that we say are the 'loving God' part, they mean nothing until our love for God shows up in our love for others.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Please give the scripture that states when we love others we have entered God's appointed rest.

As you well know, faith and obedience are basically synonymous with each other in Hebrews 4...

"For we who have believed enter that rest" (Hebrews 4:3 NASB)

Our obedience is the manifestation of our faith. So it is entirely correct to say 'those who are obedient enter that rest'.

And, again, I point out that Paul says when we love others as ourselves--that is, when we are obedient because of our faith in Christ--that obedience fulfills ALL the commandments.

That would mean the world, by showing love to a homeless person, has now entered into God's rest.

How can that be true? That obedience is not motivated by faith in Christ.

When we obey God's commandments, it is this action that shows we love God.

Amen, bro.

Example: When we obey God's written commandment to not lie, but tell the truth to a person, it is by this action that we manifest love for both God and the person.

Amen, again, bro.

Then there is the commandment that comes directly from God, as in Obey His Voice.


Example:

The Holy Spirit leads you to pass out tracts in front of the local Crack House.

Instead, you bake some cookies for the Church bake sale to raise money for the new addition which you would love to see be constructed.


One of these is faith working by love, the other is walking in rebellion.

While it may be true that if God said 'do this', but you 'do that', then you're in rebellion, but that's not really what loving others by faith means, if that's what you're driving at. The faith that motivates our love for others is not that we can operate by faith in God's power in our gifts. The faith that motivates our love for others is our faith in God that he has forgiven our sins in Jesus Christ. His love extended to us in the forgiveness of our sins is what then leads us to extend that same love toward others. That's why love is the signature and proof of faith.

 

[JLB]

Jethro said -

As you well know, faith and obedience are basically synonymous with each other in Hebrews 4...

"For we who have believed enter that rest" (Hebrews 4:3 NASB)

Our obedience is the manifestation of our faith. So it is entirely correct to say 'those who are obedient enter that rest'.

And, again, I point out that Paul says when we love others as ourselves--that is, when we are obedient because of our faith in Christ--that obedience fulfills ALL the commandments.

Yes we who have faith, enter that rest.

However it is the rest to come. - There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9

Remember the same principle for salvation; we are saved when we have faith in Christ for salvation.

That salvation like that rest will become a reality, when Jesus returns at the resurrection.

When we have faith, we have the substance of the thing we hope for, and the evidence of things not seen.

We don't yet see the salvation we are hoping for, nor do we see the rest we have faith for as well.

as it is written -

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9

and again -

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. Hebrews 4:11


Remember he who endures to the end will be saved... likewise he who endures to the end will enter that rest.


When we obey God to rest on that day of the week, we show by our faith that we believe in that rest to come.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Jethro said -

As you well know, faith and obedience are basically synonymous with each other in Hebrews 4...

"For we who have believed enter that rest" (Hebrews 4:3 NASB)

Our obedience is the manifestation of our faith. So it is entirely correct to say 'those who are obedient enter that rest'.

And, again, I point out that Paul says when we love others as ourselves--that is, when we are obedient because of our faith in Christ--that obedience fulfills ALL the commandments.

The scripture clearly says we who have believed [past tense] have entered that rest.

Just exactly the same as we who have believed are saved.

Do we see this salvation as a reality, or because we have faith, which is the substance of things hoped for.

We who have believed, do enter that rest, by faith...

As Galatians says - 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. Galatians 5:5


Being at rest is when all of your enemies are conquered.


That Day we are looking forward to by faith.


JLB

 

[ezrider]

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1Co_15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

As everyone continues to engage in this endless debate on the law, I do not think we should so lightly disregard the verse from Heb 8:11, which is a quote taken from the prophet in Jer 31:34. What does it mean when the Lord tells us through his prophet that we SHALL NOT teach every man his neighbor saying: Know the Lord?

I raised this very question in a thread I started months ago called Know the Lord? http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/know-the-lord.53708/

This is something the Lord has instructed us to NOT do under the New Covenant. Why would he not want us to teach every man his neighbor?

 

[reba]

ezrider IMO seems to me He is talking about writing His Word in our hearts ... We have His Word we do not need a priest to tell us His Word. He alone is the High Priest.

 

[Deborah13]

As everyone continues to engage in this endless debate on the law, I do not think we should so lightly disregard the verse from Heb 8:11, which is a quote taken from the prophet in Jer 31:34. What does it mean when the Lord tells us through his prophet that we SHALL NOT teach every man his neighbor saying: Know the Lord?

I raised this very question in a thread I started months ago called Know the Lord? http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/know-the-lord.53708/

This is something the Lord has instructed us to NOT do under the New Covenant. Why would he not want us to teach every man his neighbor?

I wondered about this verse as well and read Adam Clarke because he studied so much of the culture of the Jews and read what the Rabbis wrote.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/hebrews/8.htm
Then Matthew Henry has this to say...
"Here observe, [1.] In the want of better instruction, one neighbour should be teaching another to know the Lord, as they have ability and opportunity for it. [2.] This private instruction shall not be so necessary under the New Testament as it was under the Old. The old dispensation was shadowy, dark, ritual, and less understood; their priests preached but seldom, and but a few at a time, and the Spirit of God was more sparingly given out. But under the new dispensation there shall be such abundance of public qualified preachers of the gospel, and dispensers of ordinances statedly in the solemn assemblies, and so great a flocking to them, as doves to their windows, and such a plentiful effusion of the Spirit of God to make the ministration of the gospel effectual, that there shall be a mighty increase and spreading of Christian knowledge in persons of all sorts, of each sex, and of all ages. O that this promise might be fulfilled in our days, that the hand of God may be with his ministers, that a great number may believe and be turned to the Lord!"

 

[eddif]

Colossians 2:16
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Any time we read about sabbath, we are being pointed / reminded of a realization of (it is finished). Our rest is based on His (Jesus) actions. Jesus finished the work that brings ultimate rest.

Jesus is the solid reality that casts shadows. The touchable reality is Jesus.

eddif

 

[eddif]

IMHO God,s kind of love does what is necessary.

James 3:17
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

First pure then peaceable. No use to whitewash a lie.
For some reason peace has been moved into first place (in modern times). I strive after peace (good confession - let it manifest in spirit and truth).

If I were to get into drugs, to the extent I was leaving belief in Christ Jesus (overtaken completly), please try and work to help me see what is going on. If I will not listen turn me over to rehab treatment. When I repent like the prodigal son, then lavish kindness on me. First pure then peaceful etc.

You do not have to be angry to sign papers for rehab (you can be in tears). I have never been to a physical treatment center, but I have had people be honest about my life (some needed - some just in their perception). I did know a man: that an alcohol treatment center turned his life totally around and created (with much prayer) a counselor that helped hundreds of others. Tough love? Yes. But love that falls under church discipline. Do not try to help someone outside the church and expect a miracle. First purity in Christ Jesus.....

eddif

 

[Jethro Bodine]

As everyone continues to engage in this endless debate on the law, I do not think we should so lightly disregard the verse from Heb 8:11, which is a quote taken from the prophet in Jer 31:34. What does it mean when the Lord tells us through his prophet that we SHALL NOT teach every man his neighbor saying: Know the Lord?

I raised this very question in a thread I started months ago called Know the Lord? http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/know-the-lord.53708/

This is something the Lord has instructed us to NOT do under the New Covenant. Why would he not want us to teach every man his neighbor?

1 John 2 helps us see that what the people of God have in this New Covenant is discernment. We're not at the mercy of written or oral words alone, but we now have the Holy Spirit to aid us in discerning truth from error. A privilege that was largely only given to those in leadership, who were then responsible to share it with the masses. The people of God are no longer at the mercy of corrupt leaders who distorted or suppressed the truth. Now all of us have the priestly and royal anointing to one extent or another to know what is truth and what is a lie.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes we who have faith, enter that rest.

However it is the rest to come. - There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9

Remember the same principle for salvation; we are saved when we have faith in Christ for salvation.

That salvation like that rest will become a reality, when Jesus returns at the resurrection.

When we have faith, we have the substance of the thing we hope for, and the evidence of things not seen.

We don't yet see the salvation we are hoping for, nor do we see the rest we have faith for as well.

as it is written -

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9

and again -

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. Hebrews 4:11


Remember he who endures to the end will be saved... likewise he who endures to the end will enter that rest.


When we obey God to rest on that day of the week, we show by our faith that we believe in that rest to come.


JLB

The 'rest' that the author is referring to is the rest that remains to be entered into for those who have entered into the rest of the literal promised land--the one Joshua gave them. The rest remaining to be entered into is 'Today', the Day of Salvation. It isn't enough to just enter into the literal Land. There's another rest after that which these Hebrews must not be found to have fallen short of.