LAW

[Jethro Bodine]

Men who are saved, if they revert to any law, are considered falling away from grace. Galatians.

When I 'love your neighbor as yourself', or don't steal, or don't covet, am I reverting to a law and away from grace?

 

[Willie T]

When I 'love your neighbor as yourself', or don't steal, or don't covet, am I reverting to a law and away from grace?

Are you doing it as a requirement of "Law?" Therein, lies your simple answer.

 

[JLB]

Christ is the literal fulfillment of the law. Absolutely. It is Finished. Men who are saved, if they revert to any law, are considered falling away from grace. Galatians. And who has bewitched you? May anyone who preaches another gospe

Thank you and greetings in Christ. The point is, we who are in Christ, do NOT live according to the flesh. We never have since we've been saved. It's impossible to live in the flesh. We are no longer carnal minded. The sin living in us, IS. Most of these scriptures you posted are law. They are not grace. Paul is talking to weeds in the church. Anytime you see the law, you see the Lord seeking the lost sheep. Even, and especially the lost sheep inside the church.

I know it's difficult to grasp sometimes. But one must discern the Word of God from the place of being totally forgiven. We are the righteousness of God in Christ. How much holier could we possibly be? This takes no effort on our part. It is God's choosing to fill us with the Holy Spirit as we believed in the Son of God's complete sacrifice.

Be free. No worries. His Yoke is EASY and His burden is very, very LIGHT.

Could you post the scripture that states "we are the righteousness of God in Christ".


Thanks for sharing and encouraging.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Are you doing it as a requirement of "Law?"

What does that mean?

Faith in Christ upholds and fulfills the law. When faced with the choice of not obeying the law ('do not steal', 'do not lie', etc.) I want to obey the Spirit and fulfill the law.

 

[chozen1956]

Could you post the scripture that states "we are the righteousness of God in Christ".


Thanks for sharing and encouraging.


JLB

Romans 3:21, 22: 21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile.

 

[chozen1956]

When I 'love your neighbor as yourself', or don't steal, or don't covet, am I reverting to a law and away from grace?

If you attempt to gain this righteousness by your efforts? Absolutely. Do you think you are good enough to accomplish what no man can? Was Christ's death for nothing? Should you or I have hung on that cross instead? Is the work of God not finished? Does Jesus need your help to be a "good" person? Is that what the faith is about? Being good?

 

[chozen1956]

Are you doing it as a requirement of "Law?" Therein, lies your simple answer.

Excellent.

 

[Willie T]

What does that mean?

Faith in Christ upholds and fulfills the law. When faced with the choice of not obeying the law ('do not steal', 'do not lie', etc.) I want to obey the Spirit and fulfill the law.

It means what it says. Are you doing any of these good things because you feel you are required to by a rule you need to keep, or are you doing them because you feel a stirred, loving desire, in your heart, to do them?

 

[JLB]

Romans 3:21, 22: 21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile.

Thanks good scripture.

However, let's look a little closer and read a little further.


21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans 3:21-26

Consider this phrase -

...to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

Also - ... to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness,

By faith in Jesus Christ we access His righteousness.

You said we are the righteousness of God in Christ.

That's not entirely true, though we are called to be conformed to the image of His Son.

We are TO BECOME the righteousness of God in Christ.


21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21


Those who practice righteousness are in fact righteous.


Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7


JLB

 

[chozen1956]

What does that mean?

Faith in Christ upholds and fulfills the law. When faced with the choice of not obeying the law ('do not steal', 'do not lie', etc.) I want to obey the Spirit and fulfill the law.

Not really. Christ upheld the law and fulfilled it. Your faith doesn't do that. Your faith is in the one who upheld the law. Therefore, we no longer are required to. When we live by faith, we are not conscious of sin. At least, that's what living by faith actually means. We are Christ conscious. How do we please God? Faith is the only thing that pleases God. Now, living by faith, we know that grace prompts us toward a life that would reflect God's characteristics.

But here's the big difference from people who state that they are living basically within the law of the ten commandments, as you've pointed out, and those of us who live by faith: we know we can't live up to the law's expectations and to proclaim such, makes Jesus out to be a liar. For he said, NO ONE IS GOOD, NOT EVEN ONE!!!! But you, you believe you ARE GOOD. And you think by keeping the law, you will gain favor in God's eyes.

Be free by just "being." Be a witness by just resting in Christ. I promise you, you'll never go wrong, even when your flesh does.

God be with you.

 

[chozen1956]

Thanks good scripture.

However, let's look a little closer and read a little further.


21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans 3:21-26

Consider this phrase -

...to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

Also - ... to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness,

By faith in Jesus Christ we access His righteousness.

You said we are the righteousness of God in Christ.

That's not entirely true, though we are called to be conformed to the image of His Son.

We are TO BECOME the righteousness of God in Christ.


21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21


Those who practice righteousness are in fact righteous.


Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
1 John 3:7


JLB

You are not reading this in relative context. We might become doesn't mean that we are not. To become means that you are not completed by the work of Christ. That is an affront to the gospel of Christ and is another gospel that is untrue. We are immediately born again the moment we believe. Did the thief on the cross have time to "become" anything?
If you think you have any part in earning your righteousness, you are preaching the same untrue gospel that the Galatians were being taught. And what did Paul say to that man who taught them such? May you be cursed.

Now, I say the same to anyone who would dare to take Christ off that cross and put themselves up there. For there is no longer any sacrifice left. Do not think you can earn anything. Especially your righteousness. Because if you are honest, you know you can't live up to the law. So why pretend?

We ARE the righteousness of God. Now. The blood has ensured it. For we died. We no longer live. Only Christ lives in us. Are you saying Jesus is unrighteous? Are you saying the Holy Spirit is not dwelling in us? Take your thought process to its logical conclusions: becoming something means we are not yet there. God forbid.

 

[JLB]

You are not reading this in relative context. We might become doesn't mean that we are not. To become means that you are not completed by the work of Christ. That is an affront to the gospel of Christ and is another gospel that is untrue. We are immediately born again the moment we believe. Did the thief on the cross have time to "become" anything?
If you think you have any part in earning your righteousness, you are preaching the same untrue gospel that the Galatians were being taught. And what did Paul say to that man who taught them such? May you be cursed.

Now, I say the same to anyone who would dare to take Christ off that cross and put themselves up there. For there is no longer any sacrifice left. Do not think you can earn anything. Especially your righteousness. Because if you are honest, you know you can't live up to the law. So why pretend?

We ARE the righteousness of God. Now. The blood has ensured it. For we died. We no longer live. Only Christ lives in us. Are you saying Jesus is unrighteous? Are you saying the Holy Spirit is not dwelling in us? Take your thought process to its logical conclusions: becoming something means we are not yet there. God forbid.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, however some of what you are saying does not align with the word.

Please just simply address these scriptures, and not what you think I am saying, but the actual scriptures I have presented.


7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

We have been given the right to BECOME sons of God.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: John 1:12


Christians who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.


This was written to born again Christians -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

and again -

8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:8-10


Do not be deceived:

• He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
• the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

 

[Willie T]

Chozen 1956,

You can only do just so much for people. If the veil is there, they cannot see while it remains.

 

[JLB]

Chozen 1956,

You can only do just so much for people. If the veil is there, they cannot see while it remains.

If people ignore what the scripture plainly says, then they have willfully and knowingly rejected God's word.


Do not be deceived, he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

If a Christian practices the works of the flesh, such as sexual immorality, homosexuality, idolatry, fornication, sorcery... they can expect to hear these words from Jesus Christ on the Day of Judgenment -

'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Not really. Christ upheld the law and fulfilled it. Your faith doesn't do that. Your faith is in the one who upheld the law. Therefore, we no longer are required to. When we live by faith, we are not conscious of sin. At least, that's what living by faith actually means. We are Christ conscious. How do we please God? Faith is the only thing that pleases God. Now, living by faith, we know that grace prompts us toward a life that would reflect God's characteristics.

But here's the big difference from people who state that they are living basically within the law of the ten commandments, as you've pointed out, and those of us who live by faith: we know we can't live up to the law's expectations and to proclaim such, makes Jesus out to be a liar. For he said, NO ONE IS GOOD, NOT EVEN ONE!!!! But you, you believe you ARE GOOD. And you think by keeping the law, you will gain favor in God's eyes.

Be free by just "being." Be a witness by just resting in Christ. I promise you, you'll never go wrong, even when your flesh does.

God be with you.

You are not reading this in relative context. We might become doesn't mean that we are not. To become means that you are not completed by the work of Christ. That is an affront to the gospel of Christ and is another gospel that is untrue. We are immediately born again the moment we believe. Did the thief on the cross have time to "become" anything?
If you think you have any part in earning your righteousness, you are preaching the same untrue gospel that the Galatians were being taught. And what did Paul say to that man who taught them such? May you be cursed.

Now, I say the same to anyone who would dare to take Christ off that cross and put themselves up there. For there is no longer any sacrifice left. Do not think you can earn anything. Especially your righteousness. Because if you are honest, you know you can't live up to the law. So why pretend?

We ARE the righteousness of God. Now. The blood has ensured it. For we died. We no longer live. Only Christ lives in us. Are you saying Jesus is unrighteous? Are you saying the Holy Spirit is not dwelling in us? Take your thought process to its logical conclusions: becoming something means we are not yet there. God forbid.

Amen and Amen

 

[JLB]

Chozen 1956 said -

Now, I say the same to anyone who would dare to take Christ off that cross and put themselves up there.

No one on this thread has made such a claim. Why would you say such a thing?

Chozen 1956 said -

We ARE the righteousness of God. Now. The blood has ensured it. For we died. We no longer live. Only Christ lives in us. Are you saying Jesus is unrighteous? Are you saying the Holy Spirit is not dwelling in us? Take your thought process to its logical conclusions: becoming something means we are not yet there. God forbid.

Of course we are not there yet, this is exactly my point.

We are to BECOME the righteousness of God in Christ.

If you have faith in Christ for salvation, then you have the substance of the thing you are hoping for [salvation].

You will realize your salvation, that is to say, your salvation will have become a reality, when Jesus returns and we stand before Him and says these words to you:

'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34


Between now and then we have this life and it's challenges and testings that we must endure.

For it is those who endure to the end that will be saved.

For salvation comes at the end of your faith. - receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

Until then we must continue steadfast in the faith...

Until then we must exercise godliness...

Until then we must not turn away from the Living God...


12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14



JLB

 

[jocor]

Romans 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
Col 3:3: For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
Romans 6:11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus

None of these verses say anything about our flesh sinning, but that we don't sin. Our flesh is part of us as is our mind. It is through the indwelling Spirit that our flesh becomes subject to the will of Yahweh. If I commit adultery, it was sin in me working through the flesh that did it. Yet, I consented to it with my mind.

Col 3:5-6 go on to say, "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:​

His wrath comes upon His children, not just upon their flesh. Every part of us suffers His wrath because of sin.

Romans 6:16 goes on to say, "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"​

We yield "ourselves" to sin, not just our flesh, but our entire being. Sin may entice us through the flesh, but our mind consents to it. We can serve the law of Yahweh with our mind, but we can also refuse to serve the law of Yahweh with our mind.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It means what it says. Are you doing any of these good things because you feel you are required to by a rule you need to keep, or are you doing them because you feel a stirred, loving desire, in your heart, to do them?

So I don't unfairly presume anything, do you say that a Christian doing something in the law simply because the law says to do that is what Paul meant by the works gospel that can not justify, as opposed to the gospel of justification by faith?

 

[Willie T]

So I don't unfairly presume anything, do you say that a Christian doing something in the law simply because the law says to do that is what Paul meant by the works gospel that can not justify, as opposed to the gospel of justification by faith?

I really have no idea what you're talking about. But, what I mean is that if we are not developing Jesus' heart of compassion as the response that directs our actions, rather than just doing something because we found it in the Bible as something a Christian is supposed to do, then I think we might hear Jesus, one day, say, "You just never did get it, did you?"

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I really have no idea what you're talking about. But, what I mean is that if we are not developing Jesus' heart of compassion as the response that directs our actions, rather than just doing something because we found it in the Bible as something a Christian is supposed to do, then I think we might hear Jesus, one day, say, "You just never did get it, did you?"

True enough. But is that what Paul was talking about when he contrasted the works gospel with the gospel of grace?