LAW

[JLB]

They are one and the same. Abraham walked in Yahweh's laws that were passed down verbally. They were later written down by Moses with certain additions concerning the temple, etc. Do you actually believe that Moses came up with those laws?



Have you been grafted into the natural olive tree of Israel? If so, then you are an Israelite through faith in Yeshua and no longer a Gentile.

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3;19


By saying added, the Holy Spirit is indicating that the law was a part that was being added to "something else'.

By saying until, the Holy Spirit is indicating that the law that was added, was temporary.

The Seed has fulfilled the law of Moses, therefore it has vanished away, in the light of the One whose shadow was seen in the Law.


We have been grafted into natural Olive Tree and are Partakers of the Commonwealth of Israel.

I am supported by the root, which is Christ, who is YHWH!


The man Israel was not under the law of Moses.


If you can show me where Abraham, Issac or Israel kept the sabbath, whereby they stoned to death any of their family members for not keeping the sabbath, then we can start from there.

 

[reba]

I'm not sure what you mean by "Exited", but there were many Gentiles that joined themselves to Israel and were under the law that Yahweh gave through Moses.

Kinda a play on the word Exodus ...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It meant death under the Old Covenant. There is no condemnation under the New Covenant that would lead to losing salvation.

If there is no condemnation, then what are you talking about?
You're trying to tell us we don't listen to the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit has sent you to us to straighten us out.
Straighten us out from what if there is no condemnation?

 

[JLB]

It meant death under the Old Covenant. There is no condemnation under the New Covenant that would lead to losing salvation.

Are we put to death under the New Covenant?

If not, then we are not under the law of Moses.

For the priesthood being changed Also necessitates a change in the law.

Case closed. Brother

 

[jocor]

What was Paul doing in the synagogues in Acts 13, 14, and 18? Did he go there to listen to the Torah reading or did he go there to give them the gospel message of the Messiah?
It's pretty obvious from the scripture what he was doing there, he made a lot of Jews angry at him because many Jews and proselytes believed him and followed him.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Why would the Gentiles have to wait until the next Sabbath to hear the Gospel? Why not preach to them the next day for a Sunday sermon?

To try to say that Paul was a perfect Torah observant Jewish Pharisee after his conversion is disproved by Paul's own words.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:​

Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.

Under the New Covenant, the Feasts can be kept anywhere (John 4:21; Acts 20:6; 1 Cor 16:8; Acts 27:9).

Paul at other times did try to be in Jerusalem during the feasts. He was always trying to convert his Jewish people. At feast times there were large congregations of Jewish men for him to give the gospel message of the Messiah to.

Act 24:11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship.​

Act 24:12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:

Paul went to Jerusalem for one purpose; to worship Yahweh during Pentecost (the Feast of Weeks, Shavuot). Gill's commentary says of Acts 24:11;

"and in opposition to the charge of profaning the temple, he observes that he came up to Jerusalem to "worship"; namely, at the feast of Pentecost."​

 

[jocor]

If there is no condemnation, then what are you talking about?
You're trying to tell us we don't listen to the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit has sent you to us to straighten us out.
Straighten us out from what if there is no condemnation?

That sure is a harsh way of putting it. I would say a loving Father sends His messengers to correct His children because He loves them and wants them to receive all He has for them.
Just because there is no condemnation doesn't mean there are no consequences. Yeshua said;

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

There is also the consequence of many lost blessings that come via Sabbath keeping and obedience in general.

 

[reba]

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

They kept their Sabbath along with envy and blaspheming...

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[jocor]

Are we put to death under the New Covenant?

If not, then we are not under the law of Moses.

For the priesthood being changed Also necessitates a change in the law.

Case closed. Brother

I'll reopen the case. We could be put to death under the NC. Not for Sabbath breaking, but for blaspheming the HS or renouncing Yeshua. You do not understand what "under the law means.
You also do not understand Hebrews 7:12. The only change made in the law was to change the requirement of who could serve as high priest. The Law says one must be from Aaron's lineage, but Yahweh's oath changed that for His Son's sake since Yeshua was not a Levite.

 

[jocor]

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

They kept their Sabbath along with envy and blaspheming...

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

That is one way to pollute the Sabbath.

 

[jeff77]

Someone told me a few weeks ago that if I go to church on Sunday, instead of Saturday that I have taken the mark of the beast! Ouch!

 

[JLB]

I'll reopen the case. We could be put to death under the NC. Not for Sabbath breaking, but for blaspheming the HS or renouncing Yeshua. You do not understand what "under the law means.
You also do not understand Hebrews 7:12. The only change made in the law was to change the requirement of who could serve as high priest. The Law says one must be from Aaron's lineage, but Yahweh's oath changed that for His Son's sake since Yeshua was not a Levite.

One is physical death.

The other is eternal death.

Otherwise we would be put to death for breaking the sabbath.

The Law is not of faith.

Anything that is not from faith is sin.

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

The law is not of faith.

Case closed!

JLB

 

[jocor]

Someone told me a few weeks ago that if I go to church on Sunday, instead of Saturday that I have taken the mark of the beast! Ouch!

Most likely a 7th Day Adventist. The mark will not be given until after the resurrection.

 

[jocor]

The Law is not of faith.

Anything that is not from faith is sin.

So, you are saying the Law is sin??? Paul says just the opposite.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
​

The fact is, breaking the Law is sin (1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7).

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

That sure is a harsh way of putting it. I would say a loving Father sends His messengers to correct His children because He loves them and wants them to receive all He has for them.
Just because there is no condemnation doesn't mean there are no consequences. Yeshua said;

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

There is also the consequence of many lost blessings that come via Sabbath keeping and obedience in general.

Quoting Matthew 5:19?
Well, we don't have to worry about being called the least in heaven according to your usage of this verse.
That distinction will go to the Apostle Paul, because that's who I follow in Scripture.
He is the one that says we are free from the Law of sin and death (That's the Law of Moses you keep quoting that we must keep).
He says through Jesus the Spirit has set us free.
Read Romans 8.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is no spiritual fulfillment for the physical rest that the Sabbath provides; not for humans or for animals who the Creator deems need the physical rest as well.

You'd have a point if that's what the Sabbath was really all about. But as it is, we see in the NT that it was but an illustration of greater, more important spiritual truth, not a reality in and of itself.

You say the specific day is not important, but Yahweh blessed and sanctified only the seventh day.

The seventh day is an illustration of the time of the appearance of Christ at the end of mankind's labor of the flesh. That 'Day' has come and we are commanded to now cease from our own works and enter into that Rest.

The Sabbath and bearing false witness commandments would be included in "if there is any other commandment".

I know that. That's why I quoted it. Read the passage. When we love others (according to the fruit of the Spirit) we satisfy any and all requirement of law. IOW, no debt of law remains outstanding when we love others with God's love when and where we are supposed to love others with God's love. The only thing outstanding being, of course, that we are to continue to love others with the love of God when and where we are supposed to.


The beast of burden (you and me) enter into God's appointed Rest when we believe in Christ. That means we rest from our own works--the work of our flesh we strove in before we entered into the Sabbath Day Rest of Jesus Charist trying to save our own lives and gathering manna for life in our own power--and resting (and fasting) from our sinful human work of harming others through that same flesh.

Faith in Christ satisfies ALL the law. Faith satisfies some laws in regard to the spiritual reality the literal law only pointed to and illustrated (animal sacrifice for sin, Feast and Sabbath observance), while faith satisfies other laws just as literally as they were to be satisfied in the old covenant (i.e. love your neighbor as yourself).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Also, "the righteousness of the law" is fulfilled only if one walks after the Spirit. If we walk after the flesh by not allowing ourselves to be subject to the law, then we cannot fulfill its righteousness.

And we will be subject to the condemnation of the law. This is true.

The balance being, some laws are simply not fulfilled in their literal to-the-letter-of-the-law way anymore, but in regard to the spiritual truth they represented. For example, I have never, ever sacrificed an animal for my sin as the law requires, yet I'm not guilty in any way shape or form of having not done what the law commands about that, not because there is no temple to do that in, but because God accepts my faith in Christ as the fulfillment of that lawful requirement. And so it is with other literal stipulations of the law. Even though I don't literally 'keep' them, I am not under any condemnation of the law for not doing that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Have you been grafted into the natural olive tree of Israel? If so, then you are an Israelite through faith in Yeshua and no longer a Gentile.

Technically this is true. I heard that 'gentile' means 'without God'. I most certainly am not 'without God'. And, according to Paul, I'm more Jewish than most blood Jews are. The bulk of them aren't even connected to the root anymore.

 

[eddif]

Head swimming. This thread is rolling faster than a gentile redneck Mississippi fellow can totally follow .

Under the Law I would need a sack of stones to work discipline.

Under Grace restoration is the goal of discipline. I do not need the stones, but we turn some (after a process) over to satan for the destruction of the flesh. Thanks to Job we know what level of control satan can use.

Righteousness comes from Christ Jesus. Identifying sin will come from a living, up to date law written on hearts of flesh. The ones able to do this are the weak in their own strength. When we realize and confess our sins, then his spirit can cause the needed actions to take place.

eddif

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm not sure what you mean by "Exited", but there were many Gentiles that joined themselves to Israel and were under the law that Yahweh gave through Moses.

I'm pretty sure that's what she getting at.

 

[jasonc]

some for being pro old school torah, its odd they write the Name of God.