LAW

[Rollo Tamasi]

I grew up in a neighborhood in Boston with a great many Jews in the 1960's.
They would hurry to catch the last bus before sunset on Friday from work or they would have to walk home.
I always wondered why God would require such harsh treatment of his own people.
They could not use electricity or cook food.
I wondered if they were allowed to flush the toilet.
This was the Sabbath and it meant a lot to them to keep it.

Is that what you are trying to impose upon us?
Is God really calling us all to be this way?
Do you keep the Sabbath this way or do you have your own set of rules?

It seems to me the whole Book of Galatians talks about those in the church who were trying to bring the Law back into the church and Paul was having a grand time trying to bring them back to the truth, or as he says, if the truth is really in them.

When I first got saved, 1985-87 in Boston, I attended 2 separate Messianic Congregations, one on Friday nights and the other on Saturday.
They in no way taught that they had to keep the Sabbath but it was their tradition to worship on the Sabbath.
I supported then and still do today Jews for Jesus who are in full agreement with these congregations yet they are not tied together in any way.

I noticed in the 1990's-2000's here in Florida that Messianic Congregations had changed and were observing the Law and trying to tell Gentiles that they needed to do the same.
I think this is Galatians all over again.

 

[eddif]

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

They kept their Sabbath along with envy and blaspheming...

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Excellent post

The word made flesh in Christ Jesus. When Christ is lifted up, men are drawn.

eddif

 

[jasonc]

I grew up in a neighborhood in Boston with a great many Jews in the 1960's.
They would hurry to catch the last bus before sunset on Friday from work or they would have to walk home.
I always wondered why God would require such harsh treatment of his own people.
They could not use electricity or cook food.
I wondered if they were allowed to flush the toilet.
This was the Sabbath and it meant a lot to them to keep it.

Is that what you are trying to impose upon us?
Is God really calling us all to be this way?
Do you keep the Sabbath this way or do you have your own set of rules?

It seems to me the whole Book of Galatians talks about those in the church who were trying to bring the Law back into the church and Paul was having a grand time trying to bring them back to the truth, or as he says, if the truth is really in them.

When I first got saved, 1985-87 in Boston, I attended 2 separate Messianic Congregations, one on Friday nights and the other on Saturday.
They in no way taught that they had to keep the Sabbath but it was their tradition to worship on the Sabbath.
I supported then and still do today Jews for Jesus who are in full agreement with these congregations yet they are not tied together in any way.

I noticed in the 1990's-2000's here in Florida that Messianic Congregations had changed and were observing the Law and trying to tell Gentiles that they needed to do the same.
I think this is Galatians all over again.

which congregation? the way?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

which congregation? the way?

I've never heard of the way.
I'm on my way to church.
Talk later.

 

[Eugene]

I've never heard of the way.
I'm on my way to church.
Talk later.

Religiousness was the exact thing God attempted to show Israel that was an impossible task, and they were to turn to Christ. I taught boxing to one young Jewish youth the same age of my son at that time, and the night of his first fight was a Friday night. I picked him and his father up, arrived at the arena before 6:00 PM, his fight I'll say was around 7:00 PM not remembering exactly, and after the fight they could not ride home because of the Sabbath and walked I would guess to be about seven miles. Fight but no ride huh? He is now a Rabbi.

 

[jocor]

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3;19


By saying added, the Holy Spirit is indicating that the law was a part that was being added to "something else'.

By saying until, the Holy Spirit is indicating that the law that was added, was temporary.

The Seed has fulfilled the law of Moses, therefore it has vanished away, in the light of the One whose shadow was seen in the Law.

When Paul uses "law", he means the Old Covenant.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Messiah, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
​

The Old Covenant was added to the Abrahamic Covenant to deal with sin / transgressions of the law.

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence (transgressions) might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
​

Yahweh wanted people to know beyond a shadow of a doubt how sinful they were so that when Messiah came, they would see their need for him. The Old Covenant provided a temporary way to deal with those transgressions.

So, when Paul says, "till the seed should come", he is saying the "covenant" that was added would cease. That is why he goes into his teaching about the two covenants in the next chapter. He is showing us why that Old Covenant needed to end. However, the law did not end. It would be written on hearts and minds under the NC.

If you can show me where Abraham, Issac or Israel kept the sabbath, whereby they stoned to death any of their family members for not keeping the sabbath, then we can start from there.

"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."​

It is illogical to assume that Yahweh made Adam on day 6, then set apart and blessed the 7th day, but failed to tell Adam that the 7th day was set apart as holy time with a blessing upon it.

Yeshua said, "The Sabbath was made for man ...". He did not say, "The Sabbath was made for Jews" or "The Sabbath was made only for men who lived after Sinai, but until my death." The Sabbath was made for every man that will ever live. It is Yahweh's gift to mankind and the means by which we remember His Creation and who it is that sanctifies us (Ex 20:11; 31:13).

 

[jocor]

Quoting Matthew 5:19?
Well, we don't have to worry about being called the least in heaven according to your usage of this verse.
That distinction will go to the Apostle Paul, because that's who I follow in Scripture.
He is the one that says we are free from the Law of sin and death (That's the Law of Moses you keep quoting that we must keep).
He says through Jesus the Spirit has set us free.
Read Romans 8.

Paul may have been the least of all living believers at that time, but he will be among the greatest in the coming Kingdom.

We are not free from "the law", but from "the law of sin and death". The "law of sin and death" means "if you break the law and sin, you die". It is a principle he is bringing forth. He also mentions "the law of the Spirit of Life". That is a principle whereby we will live if we walk after the Spirit". He clearly says in verse 7 that those who walk after the flesh (carnal) cannot be subject to the law. The implication is that those who walk after the Spirit will subject themselves to the law. However, if they do, there won't be any condemnation / death for breaking it.

 

[jocor]

The seventh day is an illustration of the time of the appearance of Christ at the end of mankind's labor of the flesh. That 'Day' has come and we are commanded to now cease from our own works and enter into that Rest.

Mankind had only been laboring for about 4,000 years when Messiah came (4 days in Yahweh's time). Mankind is to work six days or 6,000 years. When Messiah comes the second time, the 7th day millennial Sabbath rest for one day / 1,000 years will begin.

I know that. That's why I quoted it. Read the passage. When we love others (according to the fruit of the Spirit) we satisfy any and all requirement of law. IOW, no debt of law remains outstanding when we love others with God's love when and where we are supposed to love others with God's love. The only thing outstanding being, of course, that we are to continue to love others with the love of God when and where we are supposed to.

So when we steal from a brother we do not satisfy the requirements of the law. When we allow our landscaper to come and mow our yard on the 7th day, we show we do not love him and we fail to satisfy the requirements of the law.

The beast of burden (you and me) enter into God's appointed Rest when we believe in Christ. That means we rest from our own works--the work of our flesh we strove in before we entered into the Sabbath Day Rest of Jesus Charist trying to save our own lives and gathering manna for life in our own power--and resting (and fasting) from our sinful human work of harming others through that same flesh.

Yes, we rest "from our own works", but we begin to do His works which we were ordained to do. Those works include obeying all His commandments out of love for Him (1 John 5:3).

Faith in Christ satisfies ALL the law. Faith satisfies some laws in regard to the spiritual reality the literal law only pointed to and illustrated (animal sacrifice for sin, Feast and Sabbath observance), while faith satisfies other laws just as literally as they were to be satisfied in the old covenant (i.e. love your neighbor as yourself).

Please give me a supporting verse for your first sentence. In the meantime, I will give you one:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.​

 

[jocor]

And we will be subject to the condemnation of the law. This is true.

The balance being, some laws are simply not fulfilled in their literal to-the-letter-of-the-law way anymore, but in regard to the spiritual truth they represented. For example, I have never, ever sacrificed an animal for my sin as the law requires, yet I'm not guilty in any way shape or form of having not done what the law commands about that, not because there is no temple to do that in, but because God accepts my faith in Christ as the fulfillment of that lawful requirement. And so it is with other literal stipulations of the law. Even though I don't literally 'keep' them, I am not under any condemnation of the law for not doing that.

Since the Sabbaths and Feasts will be kept in the millennium, they are not among the laws that are fulfilled spiritually.

 

[JLB]

When Paul uses "law", he means the Old Covenant.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Messiah, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
​

The Old Covenant was added to the Abrahamic Covenant to deal with sin / transgressions of the law.

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence (transgressions) might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
​

Yahweh wanted people to know beyond a shadow of a doubt how sinful they were so that when Messiah came, they would see their need for him. The Old Covenant provided a temporary way to deal with those transgressions.

So, when Paul says, "till the seed should come", he is saying the "covenant" that was added would cease. That is why he goes into his teaching about the two covenants in the next chapter. He is showing us why that Old Covenant needed to end. However, the law did not end. It would be written on hearts and minds under the NC.

"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."​

It is illogical to assume that Yahweh made Adam on day 6, then set apart and blessed the 7th day, but failed to tell Adam that the 7th day was set apart as holy time with a blessing upon it.

Yeshua said, "The Sabbath was made for man ...". He did not say, "The Sabbath was made for Jews" or "The Sabbath was made only for men who lived after Sinai, but until my death." The Sabbath was made for every man that will ever live. It is Yahweh's gift to mankind and the means by which we remember His Creation and who it is that sanctifies us (Ex 20:11; 31:13).

When Paul uses the word law, he is referring to the law of Moses.

What purpose then does the law [of Moses] serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19

The law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant.

The Abrahamic Covenant was "Re-Newed" and became the New Covenant.

The One who made Covenant with Abraham, became flesh, and shed His part of the blood letting.

It is now a better covenant with better promises.

The law was added temporarily until the Seed should come.

The law was to point them to Christ.

We are and ever will be Governed by YHWH's law of His Kingdom.



JLB

 

[jocor]

some for being pro old school torah, its odd they write the Name of God.

I assume you are referring to my use of "Yahweh". It is no where forbidden to write His name.

 

[jocor]

When Paul uses the word law, he is referring to the law of Moses.

What purpose then does the law [of Moses] serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19

You are adding "of Moses" to the text. I am not adding "covenant" to the text. Paul is addressing the Old Covenant in Galatians 3 & 4.

 

[jasonc]

I assume you are referring to my use of "Yahweh". It is no where forbidden to write His name.

then why doesn't it not have vowels, you are using an oral form the name. the reason Hebrews do that with the Heshem is because they don't want to blaspheme the name. NO one knows the vowels in the original Hebrew. they are lost save one. the Hebrews simply didn't recite that name. both messianic jews and jews never use that name in writing unless they are going to discuss it alone.

 

[JLB]

You are adding "of Moses" to the text. I am not adding "covenant" to the text. Paul is addressing the Old Covenant in Galatians 3 & 4.

Brother, the law that was added came after the Abrahamic covenant!

Very simple!

which one of these statements do you disagree with?


When Paul uses the word law here, as a reference to law of Moses.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19

The law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant.

The Abrahamic Covenant was "Re-Newed" and became the New Covenant.

The One who made Covenant with Abraham, became flesh, and shed His part of the blood letting.

It is now a better covenant with better promises.

The law was added temporarily until the Seed should come.

The law was to point them to Christ.

We are and ever will be Governed by YHWH's law of His Kingdom.



JLB

 

[Eugene]

I assume you are referring to my use of "Yahweh". It is no where forbidden to write His name.

I thought His name was יְהֹוָה. Forgive me brother, I hope it wasn't the devil making me do that.

 

[jocor]

then why doesn't it not have vowels, you are using an oral form the name. the reason Hebrews do that with the Heshem is because they don't want to blaspheme the name. NO one knows the vowels in the original Hebrew. they are lost save one. the Hebrews simply didn't recite that name. both messianic jews and jews never use that name in writing unless they are going to discuss it alone.

They don't use it out of tradition and misguided reverence. Every patriarch spoke His name regularly. Yahweh put His name in the text so we would read it and say it every time we read the Word. No vowels need to be added. Josephus said the Name consisted of four vowels (that is, letters that can act as vowels). YHWH = ee-ah-oo-eh.

 

[jasonc]

They don't use it out of tradition and misguided reverence. Every patriarch spoke His name regularly. Yahweh put His name in the text so we would read it and say it every time we read the Word. No vowels need to be added. Josephus said the Name consisted of four vowels (that is, letters that can act as vowels). YHWH = ee-ah-oo-eh.

that is odd. every patriarch.? and that isn't the case. post me where josephus said that? if that was the case we woud all being using Jehovah as that is the Germanic usage of the YHWH. its a mix of adonai and the name. see exodus 6:3 Abraham nor the patraichs called God , Yahweh.they didn't know that name.

so that isn't possible.

 

[jasonc]

misguided reverence? so when the Hebrew translated the Masoretic text, which is in in Hebrew but Aramaic and a oral code with marks on what the Hebrew meant the Christians bible writers knew the name despite the fact that vulgate used the lxx? and some other Hebrew source? the lxx does NOT have the name of GOD in it its simply rendered kyrios. which is LORD.

 

[jocor]

Brother, the law that was added came after the Abrahamic covenant!

The Old Covenant came after the Abrahamic Covenant.

The Abrahamic Covenant was "Re-Newed" and became the New Covenant.

False! The Abrahamic Covenant still exists. The Old Covenant was abolished for believers and was replaced by the New Covenant.

The One who made Covenant with Abraham, became flesh

, and shed His part of the blood letting.

The Son of the one who made the covenant became flesh.

It is now a better covenant with better promises.

You finally made a true statement.

The law was added temporarily

until the Seed should come.

What does Romans 3:31 mean to you? "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

The law was to point them to Christ.

The law as it functions under the OC pointed them to Messiah.

We are and ever will be Governed by YHWH's law of His Kingdom.

HalleluYah!!

 

[jasonc]

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Parashah/Summaries/Shemot/HaShem/hashem.html

good read and aslo what I have found, the NAME of GOD is not enough to describe him. literally the YHWH means being. the other names are attributes and are from the YHWH.