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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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Limited Atonement - TULIP
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
- Jul 13, 2012
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- #82
That is your “label”.
The people are already saved and expected to be fruitful.
Jesus calls it being fruitful.
All the parabolic teachings hinge on this principle. Being fruitful.
As we plainly see this principle in Matthew 25 as Jesus interprets the three parables in Matthew 25:31-46
He also teaches this principle in the sower and the seed.
And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?
Mark 4:13
“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. Matthew 25:14
His own servants refers to His people, His sheep.
- Apr 2, 2003
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It isn't a "label," it's what you're doing.
Exactly, but what you posted--“They way the scripture teaches us which of His disciples will inherit the kingdom of God or not is by their deeds"--contradicts that. By definition, a disciple of Jesus is someone who is saved. Therefore, it cannot be that a disciple will not inherit the kingdom of God, since every disciple will inherit the kingdom. Deeds are evidence that one is a disciple, that one is saved; they do not determine whether or not a person is saved.
- Jul 13, 2012
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- #84
False.
I’m quoting the words of Jesus Christ and trying to engage in a discussion about the words of scripture.
So far, all I see coming from “reformed” people is labels and phrases such as…
“You don’t understand”
“That’s work’s salvation”
“Your a universalist”
and so on.
None of you people actual engage in a discussion of the words Jesus said.
Again, here are Jesus words -
- Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit…
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-2,6
- If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch
Just to reiterate, these are people who are in Christ, but do not remain in Him, and therefore are gathered up and thrown into the fire.
Here is how this same John instructs us to remain in Christ -
- he who keeps His commandments abides in Him
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
These are the words of scripture; the words of Jesus Christ.
Plain, clear, irrefutable, undeniable words that you or anyone else can choose to believe and therefore obey or not.
Again
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
- and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Compare with what Paul taught in Romans -
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:5-11
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds“ -
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
- but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
- Jul 13, 2012
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- #85
Deeds is how we as Christians will be judged on that Day.
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds“ -
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
- but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath
Jesus on the Day of Judgement —
Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
for (because) I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’
Matthew 25:34-36
What was the reason Jesus said to these people?
Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom…
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In context it is about the final judgenment.
Sheep and goats are believers and unbelievers.
These are the goats, unbelievers.
Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
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- Apr 2, 2003
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True. You didn't simply quote "the words of Jesus Christ," you added your own understanding of what you think the text says--"They way the scripture teaches us which of His disciples will inherit the kingdom of God or not is by their deeds"--but it contradicts the text.
That's false. There has been all sorts of engagement with the text, but because other interpretations disagree with yours, you claim no one is.
You're teaching salvation by works again and pitting Paul against himself and Jesus against himself and each against the other. Works are only evidence of salvation, not how we are saved; they do not and cannot determine who gets into the kingdom of God (which means to be saved).
No one is denying that Christians will be judged by their works. The question is: what is the purpose of that judgement? Paul tells us:
1Co 3:12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
1Co 3:13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
1Co 3:14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.(ESV)
2Co 5:9 So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. (ESV)
It determines the level of reward or if there is to be any reward. What it does not do is determine who is saved and who isn't, as far as believers are concerned.
As to Matt. 25:31-46 then, we see that Jesus separates the "sheep" (believers) from the "goats" (unbelievers). The sheep get eternal life because their works are the evidence that they are saved, which is exactly what James gets at and what Paul speaks of elsewhere (Eph. 2:10; Titus 3:8). The goats' lack of good works proves that they weren't saved and so enter into eternal punishment.
- Jul 13, 2012
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- #93
If they repent and become born again first then they have the Spirit of Christ in them leading them to do the will of God the Father.
- Jul 13, 2012
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- #94
You going to have to do better than label with man made slurs.
I have asked you to address the scripture I posted rather than just simply labeling me in a negative way.
- Jul 13, 2012
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- #95
Yes he certainly does.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11
Paul warned the Corinthians and the Galatians and the Ephesians.
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
again
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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- #96
I asked you this. -
“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. Matthew 25:14
- who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.
Does his own servants refers to believers or unbelievers?
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,868
- 8,136
- Thread starter
- #97
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
- and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
- Jul 15, 2022
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John 5:29
those who have done good … evil. Jesus was not teaching justification by works (see Joh_6:29). In the context, the "good" is believing on the Son so as to receive a new nature that produces good works (Joh_3:21; Jas_2:14-20), while the "evil" done is to reject the Son (the unsaved) and hate the light, which has the result of evil deeds (Joh_3:18-19). In essence, works merely evidence one's nature as saved or unsaved (see notes on Rom_2:5-10), but human works never determine one's salvation.
Carry_Your_Name
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- Oct 2, 2023
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Nonetheless, it's the judgement of NATIONS, a passport to heaven or not depends on how a nation has treated the Lord's disciples. It's spoken in a collective sense in regard to the sheep nations and goat nations.
Carry_Your_Name
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I was talking about the Lord's BRETHREN, who are the disciples. In context, the sheep and goats are defined by how they have treated the Lord's brethren, and each will be judged accordingly.
While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” (Matt. 12:46-50)