Mary was born with a sinful nature.

[Dave...]

Some people these days are claiming that Mary was sinless. Just to set the record straight, and setting aside all the scripture that states all have sinned and fallen short of Gods glory. That would include Mary.

The sinful nature of man is passed down through the man. Eve sinned first. but through Adams sin we inherit this sinful nature.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Mary was born of a father. "Heli" Luke 3:23 (Mary's genealogy) Thus she was born with a sinful nature.

Jesus, being born of a virgin, even though His biological mother Mary had a sinful nature, this sinful nature did not pass down to Him since there was no biological father. He received inheritance rights through Joseph. The position, not the blood.

 

[hawkman]

" Mary , full of grace "
Means what to you ?

 

[electedbyHim]

" Mary , full of grace "
Means what to you ?

Luke 1:28 And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.”

Means favored one. All Christians are favroed.

highly favored. Lit. "full of grace"—a term used of all believers in Eph_1:6, where it is translated "accepted." This portrays Mary as a recipient, not a dispenser, of divine grace.

Mary needed a Savior, she was born in sin like all humans.

Luke 1:46 And Mary said: “My soul magnifies the Lord,
Luke 1:47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

One time when Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd proclaimed, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed” (Luke 11:27). There was never a better opportunity for Jesus to declare that Mary was indeed worthy of praise and adoration. What was Jesus’ response? “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it” (Luke 11:28). According to Jesus, obedience to God’s Word was more important than being the woman who gave birth to the Savior.

Luke 11:27 Now it happened that while Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.”
Luke 11:28 But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it.”

 

[hawkman]

The sinful nature of man is passed down through the man. Eve sinned first. but through Adams sin we inherit this sinful nature.

Is the sin nature in the DNA ?

 

[electedbyHim]

Is the sin nature in the DNA ?

Where do you think the sin nature is at conception?

 

[hawkman]

Where do you think the sin nature is at conception?

No where .

We are ALL born with a human nature , Adam and Eve was , Mary was , Jesus was and we all were born with a human nature.

Was Jesus born with a human nature ?

 

[electedbyHim]

No where .

We are ALL born with a human nature , Adam and Eve was , Mary was , Jesus was and we all were born with a human nature.

Was Jesus born with a human nature ?

We have been down this path in another thread, so it will not be productive here.

Back to the OP.

 

[electedbyHim]

" Mary , full of grace "
Means what to you ?

What does that mean to you?

 

[JLB]

No where .

We are ALL born with a human nature , Adam and Eve was , Mary was , Jesus was and we all were born with a human nature.

Was Jesus born with a human nature ?

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men… Romans 5:12

• thus death spread to all men

Why did death spread to all men?

 

[JLB]

Some people these days are claiming that Mary was sinless. Just to set the record straight, and setting aside all the scripture that states all have sinned and fallen short of Gods glory. That would include Mary.

The sinful nature of man is passed down through the man. Eve sinned first. but through Adams sin we inherit this sinful nature.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Mary was born of a father. "Heli" Luke 3:23 (Mary's genealogy) Thus she was born with a sinful nature.

Jesus, being born of a virgin, even though His biological mother Mary had a sinful nature, this sinful nature did not pass down to Him since there was no biological father. He received inheritance rights through Joseph. The position, not the blood.

Agreed.

 

[tdidymas]

Is the sin nature in the DNA ?

"the body is dead because of sin" - Rom. 8:10
If sin was not embedded in the body (DNA), it would not die; but "the wages of sin is death," therefore, since the mortal body remains subject to death, sin is in the body. "Who will deliver me from this body of death?"

Therefore, the "creationist" idea that babies are born in the same created state as Adam before his fall, is an unbiblical idea. It conflicts with a proper understanding of scripture. The correct idea is called "traducianism," in which case both the soul and body are derived from the parents, not created in a state of innocence. It's part of what all the geneologies are about, and is implied in scripture such as Heb. 7:9-10.

 

[hawkman]

If sin was not embedded in the body (DNA)

Who put the sin in your DNA ? You do understand sin is an action .

 

[electedbyHim]

"the body is dead because of sin" - Rom. 8:10
If sin was not embedded in the body (DNA), it would not die; but "the wages of sin is death," therefore, since the mortal body remains subject to death, sin is in the body. "Who will deliver me from this body of death?"

Therefore, the "creationist" idea that babies are born in the same created state as Adam before his fall, is an unbiblical idea. It conflicts with a proper understanding of scripture. The correct idea is called "traducianism," in which case both the soul and body are derived from the parents, not created in a state of innocence. It's part of what all the geneologies are about, and is implied in scripture such as Heb. 7:9-10.

Traducianism vs. creationism, thats a whole different debate.

 

[tdidymas]

Who put the sin in your DNA ? You do understand sin is an action .

"Sin" is not "a sin." "A sin" is an action, but "sin" is a principle. "God shut up all under sin, that He might have mercy to all." God is the one who made the principle of death as well as life. Therefore, God put sin in the body as an obstacle to righteousness, so that man would discover his need to trust God. It's part of the curse of the fall, in addition to thorns and thistles in the land. Economy works, but not as it should. The body works, but not as it should. Man's mind works, but not as it should. Only the resurrection of the righteous will release us from the curse of the old creation. This is what Rom. 7 is about.

 

[electedbyHim]

Who put the sin in your DNA ? You do understand sin is an action .

Your missing the point, dna has nothing to do with inheriting sin. Is there a sin gene?

If humans were not born in sin, that means they were born sinless.

Did we all inherit sin from Adam and Eve?

Yes, people inherited sin from Adam and Eve, specifically from Adam. Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4) and rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7; Joshua 1:18). Genesis 3 describes Adam and Eve’s rebellion against God and His command. Because of Adam and Eve’s disobedience, sin has been an “inheritance” for all of their descendants. Romans 5:12 tells us that, through Adam, sin entered the world and so death was passed on to all men because all have sinned. This passed-on sin is known as inherited sin. Just as we inherit physical characteristics from our parents, we inherit our sinful nature from Adam.

Adam and Eve were made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27; 9:6). However, we are also in the image and likeness of Adam (Genesis 5:3). When Adam fell into sin, the result was every one of his descendants also being “infected” with sin. David lamented this fact in one of his Psalms: “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). This does not mean that his mother bore him illegitimately; rather, his mother had inherited a sin nature from her parents, and they from their parents, and so on. David inherited sin from his parents, just as we all do. Even if we live the best life possible, we are still sinners as a result of inherited sin.

Being born sinners results in the fact that we all sin. Notice the progression in Romans 5:12: sin entered the world through Adam, death follows sin, death comes to all people, all people sin because they inherit sin from Adam. Because “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we need a perfect, sinless sacrifice to wash away our sin, something we are powerless to do on our own. Thankfully, Jesus Christ is the Savior from sin! Our sin has been crucified on the cross of Jesus, and now “in Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7). God, in His infinite wisdom, has provided the remedy for the sin we inherit, and that remedy is available to everyone: “Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you” (Acts 13:38).
Gotquestions.org

So back on topic.

Mary was born with a sinful nature.

Can anyone prove she was not?

@hawkman said:
" Mary , full of grace "
Means what to you ?

hawkman what does that mean to you?

 

[tdidymas]

Traducianism vs. creationism, thats a whole different debate.

It's not apples and oranges. One must believe in creationism as a foundation for the idea of the sinless perfection of Mary or the "immaculate conception" of Mary. Once traducianism is recognized as the correct biblical idea, it easily follows that Mary was not sinless, nor born sinless.

 

[Consecrated Life]

During His whole time on earth Mary had no idea that Jesus was born to be executed for the sins of the world.
Most people today know more thru the New Testament about God's plan for redemption than Mary did, prior to His resurrection.

It is not even clearly stated in scripture that even after beginning His Ministery that Mary was kept informed by Jesus as were His disciples concerning His coming death & resurrection .

 

[jasonc]

If Mary was sinless from birth then that means her parents also were as well and so on .

How? Because who taught Mary the Torah ?
Sure priests did and the temple but the way she truly sees it is at home .

 

[JLB]

Who put the sin in your DNA ?

But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Romans 7:17

The law of sin and death is how sin spread to all mankind from Adam.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men. Romans 5:12


Who put righteousness in us?

For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
Romans 5:19

 

[Dave...]

Hey

Something to consider...

Adam and Eve were ignorant of good and evil, that's what made them sinless. It's the state of innocence we should be considering here. It's not that they couldn't sin. They showed us that they were very capable of sinning. But with that one sin, (eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil), they also lost there innocent state. Maybe that's what we inherit.

Babies are born in this same state of innocence. God calls them innocent, not knowing their left from their right. Jewish tradition teaches that a child loses this state of innocence at age thirteen. 'Bar mitzvah' means son of the Law. "Bat mitzva" for woman. At that point, without the proper faith, they are considered lost. I believe that the correct biblical understanding is a state of innocence is that it depends on ones condition, not ones age.

Macarthur did a few good sermons on this topic called "the salvation of babies who die" Parts 1 and 2.

Just for the record, and for what it's worth, I believe that Jewish tradition teaches this sinful nature is passed down through man's seed. I could be wrong on the source though. I believe that idea may be more like a teaching tool. While technically true, it points to spiritual truth. I don't know.

I'm sure the death blow is being born with what will eventually be the knowledge of good and evil.

When? Kids grow up fast these days, so, I suppose it's different for everybody. Some mentally handicapped people may never reach that condition.

Out of time.

Dave