Mary was born with a sinful nature.

[Dave...]

Now you certainly have busted open a can of worms .

Was it evil for Adam and Eve to be naked before God ?

Worms don't bother me.

I don't think it was evil. But what was the shame from, if not a new awareness of something? That would somehow apply to "good and evil", no?

Dave

 

[electedbyHim]

Her sins in the womb , you are kidding me .


You are the one who if finding Mary guilty of sinning , from the moment of conception no less , without a shred of proof to offer .

I have posted much evidence from Scripture in another thread.

You are the one who if finding Mary guilty of sinning , from the moment of conception no less , without a shred of proof to offer .

Psalm 51:5 and 58:3 prove that your statement is false.

But you dismiss these Scriptures.

Mary was a sinner like all humans who needed a Savior.

 

[electedbyHim]

Someone please post Scripture explaining humans are born without sin.

 

[hawkman]

Someone please post Scripture explaining humans are born without sin.

Ahh , I will explain how much we are just like Jesus and HE was tried and tested JUST as we are which precludes us from having a sin nature or born in sin or born not sinless as you say . Otherwise the scriptures would be a lie .

Read as it tells where the SEED came from , must have been a seed without "sin nature " as was all the seed we came from .

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Jesus was made like unto his brethren .

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

In ALL points He was tempted as we are . He had ALL our infirmities . If we had a born in sin nature and Jesus did not this verse would be a LIE ! ALL POINTS .

15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

 

[Free]

Can we all at least agree that we are born with a fallen nature which gives us a propensity for sin such that sinning is inevitable, as is evidenced in even toddlers?

Maybe start there, figure out the difference between "fallen nature" and "sin nature," if there is one, and then work out from there.

 

[electedbyHim]

Ahh , I will explain how much we are just like Jesus and HE was tried and tested JUST as we are which precludes us from having a sin nature or born in sin or born not sinless as you say . Otherwise the scriptures would be a lie .

Read as it tells where the SEED came from , must have been a seed without "sin nature " as was all the seed we came from .

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Jesus was made like unto his brethren .

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

In ALL points He was tempted as we are . He had ALL our infirmities . If we had a born in sin nature and Jesus did not this verse would be a LIE ! ALL POINTS .

15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Ahh , I will explain how much we are just like Jesus and HE was tried and tested JUST as we are which precludes us from having a sin nature or born in sin or born not sinless as you say . Otherwise the scriptures would be a lie .

Then why are we not sinless if we are just like Jesus.

Do you believe you are sinless, or can achieve that in this life?

Why were the men of God in the Bible not sinless, what about the Apostles?

What do you do with the Scriptures that show we are born in sin and have inherited it from Adam?

What about the Scriptures that tell us that humans are spiritually dead before the Lord regenerated them?

A thorough study on Hamartiology will cancel out any arguments that humans are not born in sin.

It is sad to say that on this website, many do not like Systematic Theology, or any other sources outside of the Bible.

 

[electedbyHim]

Can we all at least agree that we are born with a fallen nature which gives us a propensity for sin such that sinning is inevitable, as is evidenced in even toddlers?

Maybe start there, figure out the difference between "fallen nature" and "sin nature," if there is one, and then work out from there.

I do not see the difference.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[tdidymas]

And we see the curse of death placed upon Adam and the humans to follow in Genesis 3:19 . Proves sin is in the body ? Nah . In fact I don't see the word sin in Genesis 3:19


Who's body was first embedded with sin and when did that happen ?

Human nature .

Jesus had human nature and was sinless, therefore human nature is not inherently sinful. Adam was created with human nature and was sinless (until his fall), therefore human nature is not inherently sinful. Sin entered the world through Adam, and so spread to all men (Rom. 5), therefore sin is inherited.

And obviously Adam was embedded with sin, as described in Rom. 5 and elsewhere. And since the wages of sin is death, "the body is dead because of sin" so therefore the body has sin in it. It's called "the flesh" in scripture and is often interpreted as "sinful nature."

If you disagree with this, then I think this conversation is over.

 

[hawkman]

Then why are we not sinless if we are just like Jesus.

Would you place blame on your sin nature or on you for your sins you commit ? I blame nothing other than myself for my sins .

In ALL points He was tempted as we are . He had ALL our infirmities . If we had a born in sin nature and Jesus did not this verse would be a LIE ! ALL POINTS .

15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Was Jesus tempted in ALL points like we are ? You did not address the verse .

 

[electedbyHim]

Would you place blame on your sin nature or on you for your sins you commit ? I blame nothing other than myself for my sins .

Was Jesus tempted in ALL points like we are ? You did not address the verse .

Would you place blame on your sin nature or on you for your sins you commit ? I blame nothing other than myself for my sins .

Sin nature and my being are the same from birth.

I am responsible.

Was Jesus tempted in ALL points like we are ? You did not address the verse .

my Lord is sinless.

I am not the Lord and I fall into sin at times.

When did you first sin after you were born?

 

[hawkman]

Jesus had human nature and was sinless, therefore human nature is not inherently sinful.

We as Christians through the power of the Holy Spirit can overcome our human nature that would cause us to sin . We can be angry but sin not . Jesus was tempted in ALL points as we are , if we have an embedded sin nature the verse would be false .

Adam was created with human nature and was sinless (until his fall), therefore human nature is not inherently sinful.

Adam sinned without a sin nature , what about that . It is possible to sin without a sin nature .

Who embedded the sin in Adam ?

 

[Dave...]

Ahh , I will explain how much we are just like Jesus and HE was tried and tested JUST as we are which precludes us from having a sin nature or born in sin or born not sinless as you say . Otherwise the scriptures would be a lie .

Read as it tells where the SEED came from , must have been a seed without "sin nature " as was all the seed we came from .

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Jesus was made like unto his brethren .

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

In ALL points He was tempted as we are . He had ALL our infirmities . If we had a born in sin nature and Jesus did not this verse would be a LIE ! ALL POINTS .

15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Some think that the fact that He did not sin was proof that He was incapable of it. The same "yesterday, today, and forever", is speaking of the nature of God. If sin was possible, wouldn't that have changed? Does that make the testing or tempting any less a testing or tempting?

Dave

 

[Dave...]

Hey everyone

Just to use an extreme example, simply because it's the only place that I believe that we can get a definitive answer in scripture. Can anyone give an example of a new born, or even a one year old sinning? It doesn't need to have actually happened, just theoretically speaking please. In other words, is it theoretically possible?

How does an infant rebel against God?

Dave

 

[Dave...]

Mitzvah I will ask family .it implies a coming of age you know the Torah and can be held to it.

Jason, did you get any feed back yet? Curious to hear what info you may have gotten.

Dave

 

[jasonc]

Jason, did you get any feed back yet? Curious to hear what info you may have gotten.

Dave

The word mitzvah is a command .

Mitzvhot

 

[electedbyHim]

We as Christians through the power of the Holy Spirit can overcome our human nature that would cause us to sin . We can be angry but sin not . Jesus was tempted in ALL points as we are , if we have an embedded sin nature the verse would be false .

Adam sinned without a sin nature , what about that . It is possible to sin without a sin nature .

Who embedded the sin in Adam ?

You are defending sinless perfection.

 

[hawkman]

You are defending sinless perfection.

The power of The Holy Spirit does not need my defense .

 

[jasonc]

The power of The Holy Spirit does not need my defense .

Do you sin daily ?

The apostle John who pemned revelation,had visions no modern day prophet or dreamers get fell as dead before the Lord.
Yet that indicates sin meaning we despite our justification haven't been glorified and free of sin or that body of death .

Yet he said 1 John 1:9

Why would John include his sin if he was sin free?

 

[jasonc]

Jason, did you get any feed back yet? Curious to hear what info you may have gotten.

Dave

The word mitzvah is a command .

Mitzvhot

That info is from Jewish online sources

 

[hawkman]

Worms don't bother me.

I don't think it was evil. But what was the shame from, if not a new awareness of something? That would somehow apply to "good and evil", no?

Dave

It was a loss of innocence , IMO . Their age of accountability had just started for them .