OSAS

[stovebolts]

see there is the first mistake i never said i supported osas .i have stated that many times i used it to show how lot sat at the gates of sodom gomorah probably mayor so to speak.. Lot was very much a part of the city while i doubt he practied the sexula pervison . but he is the leader of his family his wife couldn't leave the place. her heart earned to say . end results .she was turned to a pillar of salt . i have been pretty reserved in my post . not many has been willing to wade in on it.. but to call out other doctrines that are osas as false twisted pet doctrines.. over they years i have heard it all. facts are Jesus never promoted any one single doctrine. i had a man tell me years ago non demon was way to go as that was what jesus was.. jesus is the way truth life.. your tos rules with name calling .it does not promote unity

If you didn’t use verse 16 to support OSAS, please tell me why you posted it as a counter passage against JLB.

btw, I don’t Strongly disagree with your above comments, but I believe verse 9 explains why Lot hesitated in verse 16. I do not believe Lot hesitated because he wanted to stay. The rest of 16 shows the Angels granting Lot and his family safe passage, just like the Angels blinded those wanting to harm Lot to keep Lot safe in earlier passages.

 

[JLB]

yes it is and not one time did he EVER TEACH osa osnas he never taught speaking in tongues other languages give me a break sare the building program . you have not been building osas is not a false doctrine nor more than osnas is

By reading and studying the New Testament, we come to realize that the concept of OSAS is not from Christ.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


It’s as simple as understanding that if a person is “in Christ” they have eternal life; ie they are saved. They are one spirit with Christ and therefore are one spirit with eternal life.

Being joined to Christ is “knowing Him”.


If a person is removed from Christ, then they are no longer in Christ, in which they are no longer joined to Him.


They are no longer one with Him; no longer one spirit with Him.


This concept is seen in the natural life of a husband and wife who become divorced.


We must heed His words that say...

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch

JLB

 

[JLB]

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
Amen.

This is OSAS
Believe it and live it and you will be saved.

Thanks for your post Allen.


The “live it” is what makes your belief not OSAS.

 

[jerry63935]

By reading and studying the New Testament, we come to realize that the concept of OSAS is not from Christ.

ok your the moderator so everyone will know from the house top JLB has the perfect doctrine. you can only give scriptures that you say are of that ..i can counter that and say those who are not truly saved . just to be honest i am tired of the rhetoric . i have dome my upmost best using scripture to show you . who shall we cherry pick to death next? church of Christ methodist .you simply do not get it

 

[jerry63935]

but I believe verse 9 explains why Lot hesitated in verse

he hesitated the spirit is willing the flesh is weak.. i used lot to TRY and i am through show lots was called just living in the sin filled city yes most likely he turned his head as to what went on . But God seen fit to bring him and his two daughters out..they call that mercy and Grace just because we wonder off go astray does NOT mean we are lost and need saved again. i am done with this subject for personal reasons . some of the things posted goes against your tos that was set up . if you want my true feeling you can priv message me and i will galdy express my discontent other wise and kenny rogers chorus in the song the gambler you got to know when to hold them know when to fold them know when to walk away ..i am walking away

 

[stovebolts]

he hesitated the spirit is willing the flesh is weak.. i used lot to TRY and i am through show lots was called just living in the sin filled city yes most likely he turned his head as to what went on . But God seen fit to bring him and his two daughters out..they call that mercy and Grace just because we wonder off go astray does NOT mean we are lost and need saved again. i am done with this subject for personal reasons . some of the things posted goes against your tos that was set up . if you want my true feeling you can priv message me and i will galdy express my discontent other wise and kenny rogers chorus in the song the gambler you got to know when to hold them know when to fold them know when to walk away ..i am walking away

Jerry, It seems you are getting upset by something I said and I by no means want to be a hypocrite of my own tos. I have been in violation in the past, just like the rest of us, including you. However, I don’t see where I’ve violated it so if you can kindly show me I would really appreciate it. we can continue in PM if you like.

as far as Lot, let’s stay close to the text on this one and when we do, we can learn the lessons intended. within the narrative, I don’t see any support for OSAS. My opinion is that one would have to impose a view upon that narrative which is foreign to the original intent and meaning.

if you need time to gather yourself, I understand. You don’t need to reply if you don’t want too.

 

[jerry63935]

It seems you are getting upset by something I said

no not you .. i dont mind discussion and opinions.. its not a matter of gathering

 

[JLB]

ok your the moderator so everyone will know from the house top JLB has the perfect doctrine.

Again Jerry, my motive is to encourage people to turn to Christ and His doctrine.

To study for themselves what the New Testament says. That’s where we should get our doctrine from.

Is it really that confusing ?


Jesus Christ is the truth. The perfect representative of God, and what God desires for us as His children.


His kingdom is a kingdom of truth, righteousness, peace, love and joy.

His teachings and commandments embody these characteristics.


Rebelling, disobeying and refusing to submit to this law of love and righteousness is the mark of those who would rather have Satan as their lord.


The choice is ours to make.


Why would anyone want to live a life of stubbornness and rebellion?


Obeying Him is how we remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Again Jerry, my motive is to encourage people to turn to Christ and His doctrine.

as long as its in agreement with you and your doctrine

 

[JLB]

as long as its in agreement with you and your doctrine

Aren’t you the one who said obeying the Lord is not required for salvation?


Here’s what the scripture says —

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9


I would encourage you to take your belief that obeying the Lord is not required for salvation and go through the scriptures and studying on your own without outside influence and see if you come away from your time of study with the same mindset as.... obeying the Lord is not required for salvation.


I believe if you are open and honest in your study that you will come to the conclusion that obeying the Lord is the requirement for salvation.


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Aren’t you the one who said obeying the Lord is not required for salvation?


Here’s what the scripture says —

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9


I would encourage you to take your belief that obeying the Lord is not required for salvation and go through the scriptures and studying on your own without outside influence and see if you come away from your time of study with the same mindset as.... obeying the Lord is not required for salvation.


I believe if you are open and honest in your study that you will come to the conclusion that obeying the Lord is the requirement for salvation.


JLB

the lost man has no idea what to obey

The Mystery of Believing He said, "Who are You, Lord?" Acts 9:5 Through the miracle of redemption, Saul of Tarsus was instantly changed from a strong-willed and forceful Pharisee into a humble and devoted bondservant of the Lord Jesus. There is nothing miraculous or mysterious about the things we can explain. We control what we are able to explain, consequently it is only natural to seek an explanation for everything. It is not natural to obey, yet it is not necessarily sinful to disobey. There can be no real disobedience, nor any moral virtue in obedience, unless a person recognizes the higher authority of the one giving the orders. If this recognition does not exist, even the one giving the orders may view the other person’s disobedience as freedom. If one rules another by saying, “You must do this,” and, “You will do that,” he breaks the human spirit, making it unfit for God. A person is simply a slave for obeying, unless behind his obedience is the recognition of a holy God. Many people begin coming to God once they stop being religious, because there is only one master of the human heart— Jesus Christ, not religion. But “Woe is me” if after seeing Him I still will not obey (Isaiah 6:5 , also see Isaiah 6:1). Jesus will never insist that I obey, but if I don’t,I have already begun to sign the death certificate of the Son of God in my soul. When I stand face to face with Jesus Christ and say, “I will not obey,” He will never insist. But when I do this, I am backing away from the recreating power of His redemption. It makes no difference to God’s grace what an abomination I am, if I will only come to the light. But “Woe is me” if I refuse the light (see John 3:19-21). From My Utmost for His Highest Updated Edition Bible in One Year: Psalms 20-22; Acts 21:1-17 ​

WISDOM FROM OSWALD CHAMBERS The message of the prophets is that although they have forsaken God, it has not altered God. The Apostle Paul emphasizes the same truth, that God remains God even when we are unfaithful (see 2 Timothy 2:13). Never interpret God as changing with our changes. He never does; there is no variableness in Him. from Notes on Ezekiel, 1477 L ​

​

WISDOM FROM OSWALD CHAMBERS The message of the prophets is that although they have forsaken God, it has not altered God. The Apostle Paul emphasizes the same truth, that God remains God even when we are unfaithful (see 2 Timothy 2:13). Never interpret God as changing with our changes. He never does; there is no variableness in Him. from Notes on Ezekiel, 1477 L ​

 

[jerry63935]

Here’s what the scripture says —

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9

this is for those who are already saved our obedience shows we are in the Body . the lost man has no clue about obedience. yes if were saved we will want to obey him /being led of the spirit

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Throwing a tantrum and trying to shame and blame someone because you disagree with them only serves to show that your really not interested in promoting the truth that we find in the scriptures.


JLB

Sometimes “ Tantrums” are fully Justified

Thank you for posting scripture.


The condition for receiving eternal life —

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


The promise for meeting the condition —

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Do you know what “hear” means in this verse?

• Listen with the intent of doing (obeying) what is heard.

It’s easy to understand what Jesus intended, because the hearing must result in following.


Can a person disregard and ignore the Lord’s instruction and expect to follow him?

No. If they don’t listen and do what He says, they may become lost.


Here is another verse where Jesus promises the same thing for following Him.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:28-29

• you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

This promise of destiny to reign with Christ in the age to come was given to all twelve apostles.


What does this say about what Jesus intended in this promise of following Him?


Does this mean the moment they start following Him, they have eternal life and will never perish, or does this indicate a following Him for life?


Where are we following Jesus today?


We are following Him along the difficult way that leads to life, whereby few find it.


Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:14




JLB

Anybody out there that knows their Scripture knows that the way to “ Follow Jesus” is to “ Follow Paul”....we cant just “ pick and choose”...... we must always “ Rightly Divide”.... Rule Keepers need to stay current on the most recent Commands .....you will not find many in this Age Of Grace.....Perhaps there are NONE......after all , Jesus said through Paul that “ All Things Are Lawful”..... And I will never forget the day I heard Mr.Legalism himself, Jimmy Swaggert proclaim that “ There are no rules in Christianity”......Zola Levitt , in whom I have much more respect , said the me thing......

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I agree.

“Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Matthew 7:21


JLB

You did not finish......what’s up with “ that ?” “What is the Will Of The Father?” Jesus answered His Disciples...... “ The Will of The Father is to BELIEVE in the One that He sent” Believe in Jesus— Nothing else.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Thank you for posting scripture.


The condition for receiving eternal life —

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


The promise for meeting the condition —

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Do you know what “hear” means in this verse?

• Listen with the intent of doing (obeying) what is heard.

It’s easy to understand what Jesus intended, because the hearing must result in following.


Can a person disregard and ignore the Lord’s instruction and expect to follow him?

No. If they don’t listen and do what He says, they may become lost.


Here is another verse where Jesus promises the same thing for following Him.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:28-29

• you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

This promise of destiny to reign with Christ in the age to come was given to all twelve apostles.


What does this say about what Jesus intended in this promise of following Him?


Does this mean the moment they start following Him, they have eternal life and will never perish, or does this indicate a following Him for life?


Where are we following Jesus today?


We are following Him along the difficult way that leads to life, whereby few find it.


Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:14


Jesus also said, “ My yoke is easy.....” so what is one to do?

JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Throwing a tantrum and trying to shame and blame someone because you disagree with them only serves to show that your really not interested in promoting the truth that we find in the scriptures.


JLB

In a Public Forum you accuse me of dishonesty and insincerity in my Posts because you disagree with me and can’t out debate me and then try to turn the tables as if “ I” were the one that started with the disparaging remarks......you are quite a “Piece Of Work” aren’t you ? And a Mod.Sad.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Throwing a tantrum and trying to shame and blame someone because you disagree with them only serves to show that your really not interested in promoting the truth that we find in the scriptures.


JLB

Think again.....I am trying to “ shame and blame you” because you have earned it.....another nice attempt at deflection ......you could just man-up in Public and apologize ....

 

[JLB]

Sometimes “ Tantrums” are fully Justified

Their is One who justifies by the obedience of faith.



JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Every verse of Scripture trotted out that supposedly shows that OSAS is erroneous has one of two Problems attached. The verses are either taken out of context or are verses not being addressed to the Body Of Christ. They can ALL be argued with.They can ALL be debated.
When it comes to verses that support OSAS the can’t be “ argued” about unless your opponent is very willing to twist himself in knots....
How does a sane man argue with such clear-cut Scriptures like this—-“ ANYBODY that ASKS To Be SAVED , WILL BE SAVED” or “ All Of Those That Come to Me through My Son, Christ Jesus.....I will SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST. Or how about this ? “ Those That hear my Word and Believe in the One that sent Me already HAS Eternal Life and shall NEVER come into Condemnation..”
God bends over backwards to Assure His Children that they are Forever Secure....How Much CLEARER Could He Be? It makes no difference.....Those with “ Stiff Necks” will always find a way to rationalize their Unbelief in the Promises Of God....

 

[JLB]

Sometimes “ Tantrums” are fully Justified


Anybody out there that knows their Scripture knows that the way to “ Follow Jesus” is to “ Follow Paul”....we cant just “ pick and choose”...... we must always “ Rightly Divide”.... Rule Keepers need to stay current on the most recent Commands .....you will not find many in this Age Of Grace.....Perhaps there are NONE......after all , Jesus said through Paul that “ All Things Are Lawful”..... And I will never forget the day I heard Mr.Legalism himself, Jimmy Swaggert proclaim that “ There are no rules in Christianity”......Zola Levitt , in whom I have much more respect , said the me thing......

What kind of kingdom would God have if there were no rules?


It certainly wouldn’t be a kingdom of love and righteousness and peace.


It would be a kingdom of lawlessness.


Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10



In your kingdom, is it ok to hate?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Please don’t listen to Jimmy Swaggert or any other “preacher” that tells you the kingdom of God doesn’t have any rules or laws.


Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.
Romans 14:16-18



JLB