Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[turnorburn]

Jason we're talking about great tribulation.. when do you think they'll tell us that we're in great tribulation.. the second coming of Christ is imminent... repent the kingdom of God is nigh..?

*edit: they won't.. because the god of this world has blinded their minds..

 

[dianegcook]

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

In these verses we read great tribulation and affliction. By studying the seven trumpet and vile chastisements of Gods wrath on those who refuse to repent we can see that this is a greater tribulation time then ever was before or ever will be again as there has always been tribulations. I like how Mark used the word afflictions as during this time of a greater tribulation then was ever before nor ever will be God will allow the affliction to come upon man especially during the vial judgments.

The seventh seal begins the day of Gods wrath with the first four seals being destruction of the environment that will cause many to lose their lives. Rev 6:17, the ones who will be able to stand are those who have Gods seal upon them as they continue the witness and testimony of Jesus throughout the nations.

One thing we need to take into consideration before going forward in our study is that during the seven trumpet sounds this will be Global in what God causes to happen on earth. God’s wrath will not necessarily be centered in just one confined area, but one area can cause much damage throughout the world as a whole. During the time of the seven trumpets sounding one third of everything here on earth will be destroyed. This includes our food supply and fresh water as one third of the oceans, sea, rivers and streams are destroyed along with sea life and the third part of the ships that sit in it that will be burned. With the third of these ships being destroyed means a third part of the world’s fuel and food supply would be destroyed. One third of all people living on earth will be killed by the hail and fire. With the third part of the sun, moon and stars being darkened this will affect mans source of electricity and heat that is vital to keep a certain degree of the earth warm, and generated power in homes, hospitals and manufacturing plants including nuclear reactors and vehicles.

This will be the time of the beast out of the sea and the beast out of the earth to join together in calling safety and provisions to all who will bow down to the beast and the false prophet, Rev Chapter 13. This is not only a time of a false calling of peace and safety that many will bow down to, but also a time of great persecution as many who are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30, and stand in the Holy place, Matthew 24:15, which is our faith in Christ Jesus will join those under the alter, Rev 6:9-11, as they died a martyr's death, Matthew 10:28.

God’s wrath is poured out into the world as chastisements for disobedience, but also a warning that man needs to repent and turn back to God before the door of salvation is closed forever. The time of Gods longsuffering and patience is coming to an end and God would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9. Many will repent during this time as their ears are finally opened to the witness and testimony of Gods word as it is carried out into the word to every nation, Matthew 24:13, 14.

Hi for_His-glory
I agree with most of what you have been saying.
But a lot of things in Rev. Is symbolic.
As in Rev.17:15 states the waters are people's, nations, and tongues.
And also, when sometimes it speaks of death, can mean spiritually,.
Rev.18:13 after the souls of men.
These were deceived, by the so called Harlot, the ones that buyeth her merchandise..
Babylon is fallen, confusion...
And the kings of the earth shall bewail and lament for her. Rev.18:9-13


Rev.18:4
Come out of her, My people, confusion, deception....

Rev.9: 18,19
By these 3 was the third part of men killed, (spiritually) by the fire, smoke and brimstone, which issued out of their mouths...lies, deception
For their power is in their mouths...

 

[for_his_glory]

Seriously, do you actually understand beta and alpha radiation isn't that harmful? You have to have a sore or ingest the source for either to bother you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_by_death_toll

Chernobyl disaster

4,000 fatalities[1][2] – Chernobyl disaster, Ukraine, April 26, 1986. 56 direct deaths (47 accident workers and nine children with thyroid cancer) and it is estimated that there were 4,000 extra cancer deaths among the approximately 600,000 most highly exposed people.[3]

Estimates of the total number of deaths potentially resulting from the Chernobyl disaster vary enormously: Thirty one deaths are directly attributed to the accident, all among the reactor staff and emergency workers.[4] A UNSCEAR report places the total confirmed deaths from radiation at 64 as of 2008. The World Health Organization (WHO) suggests it could reach 4,000 civilian deaths, a figure which does not include military clean-up worker casualties.[5] A 2006 report predicted 30,000 to 60,000 cancer deaths as a result of Chernobyl fallout.[6] A Greenpeace report puts this figure at 200,000 or more.[7] A disputed Russian publication, Chernobyl, concludes that 985,000 premature cancer deaths occurred worldwide between 1986 and 2004 as a result of radioactive contamination from Chernobyl.[8]

 

[turnorburn]

Diane you said "These were deceived, by the so called Harlot, the ones that buyeth her merchandise.." there's a reason for that the reason why she flaunts herself going undetected.. Its found here in..

Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

"the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication"

When your drunk you'll buy just about anything the bartender is dishing out..

 

[for_his_glory]

Seriously, do you actually understand beta and alpha radiation isn't that harmful? You have to have a sore or ingest the source for either to bother you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_by_death_toll

Chernobyl disaster

4,000 fatalities[1][2] – Chernobyl disaster, Ukraine, April 26, 1986. 56 direct deaths (47 accident workers and nine children with thyroid cancer) and it is estimated that there were 4,000 extra cancer deaths among the approximately 600,000 most highly exposed people.[3]

Estimates of the total number of deaths potentially resulting from the Chernobyl disaster vary enormously: Thirty one deaths are directly attributed to the accident, all among the reactor staff and emergency workers.[4] A UNSCEAR report places the total confirmed deaths from radiation at 64 as of 2008. The World Health Organization (WHO) suggests it could reach 4,000 civilian deaths, a figure which does not include military clean-up worker casualties.[5] A 2006 report predicted 30,000 to 60,000 cancer deaths as a result of Chernobyl fallout.[6] A Greenpeace report puts this figure at 200,000 or more.[7] A disputed Russian publication, Chernobyl, concludes that 985,000 premature cancer deaths occurred worldwide between 1986 and 2004 as a result of radioactive contamination from Chernobyl.[8]

Luke 21:11; Rev 6:12-14 Many of these places where God will cause massive earthquakes have nuclear reactors. Just like Chernobyl and many other nuclear reactors that have blown up will you still tell their families they did not die because of the side effects from the radiation!

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi for_His-glory
I agree with most of what you have been saying.
But a lot of things in Rev. Is symbolic.
As in Rev.17:15 states the waters are people's, nations, and tongues.
And also, when sometimes it speaks of death, can mean spiritually,.
Rev.18:13 after the souls of men.
These were deceived, by the so called Harlot, the ones that buyeth her merchandise..
Babylon is fallen, confusion...
And the kings of the earth shall bewail and lament for her. Rev.18:9-13


Rev.18:4
Come out of her, My people, confusion, deception....

Rev.9: 18,19
By these 3 was the third part of men killed, (spiritually) by the fire, smoke and brimstone, which issued out of their mouths...lies, deception
For their power is in their mouths...

I agree as some things in Rev are symbolic, but also likened as in the literal of what John saw in the visions that were familiar to him, but could never perceive the literal things to come in the future as in our time.

Rev 17 gives us a description of who this great harlot is as being the old Babylonian Empire that has always persecuted Gods people. Rev 18 also describes this harlot and how she will be destroyed in the end of days and that people need to come out of her before it's to late.The Babylon Empire of that time had risen to become a Roman Empire in John’s day as they even today control the government of Jerusalem. It was through this antichrist government that persecuted those to death who carried the witness and testimony of Jesus as they went out preaching in His name establishing the Church of Jesus wherever they traveled to.

EDITED


Daniel Chapter 7 was an interpretation of a dream that Nebuchadnezzar had about four nations. Within these four nations we see how Satan tries to rule through man, but the kingdom of God prevails in judgment against these nations and the nations are turned over to the people of God for eternity. Notice also where these present day places in parentheses are located. Pagan nations also were often called beast in the Old Testament, which shows us to not take some words literally, but to define the definition of the word.



Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire:
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

 

[jasonc]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_by_death_toll

Chernobyl disaster

4,000 fatalities[1][2] – Chernobyl disaster, Ukraine, April 26, 1986. 56 direct deaths (47 accident workers and nine children with thyroid cancer) and it is estimated that there were 4,000 extra cancer deaths among the approximately 600,000 most highly exposed people.[3]

Estimates of the total number of deaths potentially resulting from the Chernobyl disaster vary enormously: Thirty one deaths are directly attributed to the accident, all among the reactor staff and emergency workers.[4] A UNSCEAR report places the total confirmed deaths from radiation at 64 as of 2008. The World Health Organization (WHO) suggests it could reach 4,000 civilian deaths, a figure which does not include military clean-up worker casualties.[5] A 2006 report predicted 30,000 to 60,000 cancer deaths as a result of Chernobyl fallout.[6] A Greenpeace report puts this figure at 200,000 or more.[7] A disputed Russian publication, Chernobyl, concludes that 985,000 premature cancer deaths occurred worldwide between 1986 and 2004 as a result of radioactive contamination from Chernobyl.[8]

Luke 21:11; Rev 6:12-14 Many of these places where God will cause massive earthquakes have nuclear reactors. Just like Chernobyl and many other nuclear reactors that have blown up will you still tell their families they did not die because of the side effects from the radiation!

radiation sickness?that's is debatable If you want to worry about that more died in the past from hurricanes.the sun causes more death per year then that
Uv exposure is deadly.even with sun tan lotion it's still dangerous. Live in florida you can get skin cancer simply by driving your car and never tanning.or just tan once .is the sun a judgement.a risk exists with all forms of energy.coal, coal miners lung,mercury in our fish. Solar ,cng,and oil.tainted water supplies.notice it's only the Ukraine not Germany, poland,france,and the west as well that cloud passed over all that.

I live within proximity of two reactors.I don't like some of the problems with them but it's the choice of a poison .mercury in the fish, tainted water or possibly this. A nuke plant isn't polluting when it's online and running safe.all other energies do save solar and wind power.the process to make the later too will involve some impact. The other one solar pollutes in silica extraction by fracking or silica removal.

https://www.aad.org/media/stats/conditions/skin-cancer

10000 per year In america alone despite that reality we worry about one or two nuke reactors issues.

Context is everything

 

[jasonc]

Jason we're talking about great tribulation.. when do you think they'll tell us that we're in great tribulation.. the second coming of Christ is imminent... repent the kingdom of God is nigh..?

*edit: they won't.. because the god of this world has blinded their minds..

I don't believe in a great tribulation of a seven year period. Again even Russia lied and its posted that the lied about the exposures of workers to the radiation. That was a far worse meltdown then japan's.

 

[reba]

More die from abortions ..

 

[jasonc]

More die from abortions ..

WAY More.or famine etc.I'm not overly concerned about radiation.

 

[jasonc]

http://m.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/biscayne-bay-being-contaminated-by-turkey-point-nu/np3SS/

My that isn't posted by one here.

 

[turnorburn]

I don't believe in a great tribulation of a seven year period. Again even Russia lied and its posted that the lied about the exposures of workers to the radiation. That was a far worse meltdown then japan's.

And you think i do? I've never said that. read the verse..

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Nothing here about "a great tribulation" "For then shall be great tribulation" Forces have been at work to add and take from Gods word since the beginning..

As for the radiation we're being bathed in ask your shipmates..

http://www.ibtimes.com/uss-ronald-r...e-years-after-fukushima-contamination-1519170

 

[jasonc]

And you think i do? I've never said that. read the verse..

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Nothing here about "a great tribulation" "For then shall be great tribulation" Forces have been at work to add and take from Gods word since the beginning..

As for the radiation we're being bathed in ask your shipmates..

http://www.ibtimes.com/uss-ronald-r...e-years-after-fukushima-contamination-1519170

They were exposed within how many days after? The clouds surely would have to be coming from Chernobyl which is still worst and yet nothing

 

[for_his_glory]

jasonc, what turnorburn and I replied with was from what you said in your post #176. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[turnorburn]

WAY More.or famine etc.I'm not overly concerned about radiation.

Of course your not you've been trained not to... and so has the general population.. Do you seriously think Satan is going to tell his operatives to warn us about the judgment to come?

 

[turnorburn]

Fukushima Worse than Chernobyl: “Effects of Radiation Have Become Much More Severe” — “Enormous Decline” in Animal Species

Dr. Tim Mousseau, USC biologist: “The declines have been really dramatic… now we see this really striking drop-off in numbers of birds as well as numbers of species of birds. So both the biodiversity and the abundance are showing dramatic impacts in these areas with higher radiation levels, even as the levels are declining.”University of South Carolina, Apr 15, 2015 (emphasis added): Dwindling bird populations in Fukushima… as several recent papers from University of South Carolina biologist Tim Mousseau and colleagues show, the avian situation there is just getting worse… They recently published a paper in the Journal of Ornithology showing results from the first three years…Many populations were found to have diminished in number as a result of the accident, with several species suffering dramatic declines… What might be most disheartening to the researchers involved, and bird-lovers in general, is how the situation is progressing in Fukushima. Despite the decline in background radiation in the area over these past four years, the deleterious effects of the accident on birds are actually increasing.

CBS News, Apr 16, 2015: Near site of Fukushima disaster, birds still in peril… birds are becoming a rarity around the damaged nuclear site… “There are dramatic reductions in the number of birds”… Mousseau told CBS News. “In terms of barn swallows in Fukushima, there had been hundreds if not thousands in many of these towns where we were working. Now we are seeing a few dozen of them left. It’s just an enormous decline.”… Around Fukushima, Mousseau predicts the worst may not be over… “So now we see this really striking drop-off in numbers of birds as well as numbers of species of birds. So both the biodiversity and the abundance are showing dramatic impacts in these areas with higher radiation levels, even as the levels are declining.” Mousseau said the reason comes down to the long-term impact of the radiation. “It takes multiple generations for the effects of mutations to be expressed…”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/fukush...re-enormous-decline-in-animal-species/5444263

 

[reba]

So tell me guys ,, if this is the tribulation by your account Jesus should return in about 2.5 years right ?

 

[for_his_glory]

They were exposed within how many days after? The clouds surely would have to be coming from Chernobyl which is still worst and yet nothing

What is more concerning then the radiation we are discussing is the cloud of Gods great wrath poured out into the world during the greatest tribulation that has never been seen before nor ever will be seen again during the seven trumpet and seven vial judgments against those who refuse to repent that will cause a massive uncounted amount of lives lost to damnation.

 

[for_his_glory]

The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days beginning with Ezra, Ezra chapter 3-6, rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in His birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a five hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, Malachi Chapter 4 but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, Isaiah 10. As still today, God still waits for National Israel to repent and believe in the name of Jesus.

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 this verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to make an end to the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 from the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call the Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it; Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36. These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Rev Chapter 6-21. Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only believe until the door of salvation is closed when Jesus calls us and we meet him in the clouds, which after this time no one can be saved, Matthew 25:10.

Vs.26 after 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the prince, which means National Israel or other words the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolations of Abominations where the so-called Antichrist will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the Pope tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, Daniel 11:36-45. Gods’ word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists, 1John2:18; 11 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Revelation 11:7.The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years of Jesus teaching before he was crucified and three and a half years of Steven teaching before he was stoned to death, which took place after Jesus was ascended.

Vs.27 the 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the spiritual city right to the cross where the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes back in the clouds to call his church home and for the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all who would not believe.

A rapture, or as the Bible calls it, caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds, Matthew 24:27-31; Matthew 26:64; Mark 13:26, will take place and as Matthew 24:36 says no one will know when. There is no mention in scripture of a seven-year tribulation or a literal 1000-year reign of Christ. Revelation 20 is not a literal 1000 years. It states in scripture that we reign with Christ the day we ask him into our hearts and become heirs of the throne of grace, 1Peter 2:19; Romans 8:14-17; Galatians 3:29.

 

[jasonc]

What is more concerning then the radiation we are discussing is the cloud of Gods great wrath poured out into the world during the greatest tribulation that has never been seen before nor ever will be seen again during the seven trumpet and seven vial judgments against those who refuse to repent that will cause a massive uncounted amount of lives lost to damnation.

that isn't what a nuclear reactor failure is .not evendors close.

I haven't posted the massive fish deaths attributed to fertilizer in my state.it was so bad that the river stank.the cape,yes the Cape caneveral had it really bad .it was very noticeable there.