Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

I believe the whole problem with the pretrib view is that many do not understand what the abomination that causes desolation means and what the mark of the beast is truly all about. It would be great if there was a pretrb as even I use to believe at one time, but scripture never supports these teachings that are being taught.

Scripture mentions a great falling away in 2Thessalonians 2:1-12 because many will be deceived in believing a lie by the man of sin who is the son of perdition being the false prophet who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. The son of perdition is the Pontifex Maximus who is also known as the Vicarius Filii Dei that means in the place of God who sits on his throne in Rome and calls himself Holy Father while many around the world bow down and worship him as he exalts himself above everything that is called God, but will be cast down to the lake of fire with the beast who is the . Only God of all creation is to be called Holy Father and those who humble themselves before Him will be exalted, Matthew 23:9-12.

The beast in whom many will take its mark is the Jesuit Luciferian militant Priesthood who controls all the worlds economic, political and religious systems. Their secret agenda is that of taking total control of all institutions and resources globally for world domination as this was the intention of Ignatius Loyola a Spanish militant who was the founder of the Society of Jesus in 1534. In 1540 Pope Paul III gave approval for this society known as the Jesuit Priesthood today. The mark of the beast is not an actual mark that is literally stamped or tattooed on someone, but is the thoughts of the mind and actions of the hand as many who claim to be Christians will be deceived by the false prophet and cause them to fall away from Jesus by this beast religious system that will call peace and safety to all who will bow down to it during the time of the seven trumpets of Gods great wrath before Jesus comes back for His true Church.
 
Last edited:
Lets not close this thread tread lightly

Discussions of conspiracy theories often lead to slander and hostile debate. Therefore, discussion of conspiracy theories is prohibited.
 
I believe the whole problem with the pretrib view is that many do not understand what the abomination that causes desolation means and what the mark of the beast is truly all about.
Quite the opposite. These end time events have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with God's plans for His Church. They have everything to do with God's plans for the unbelieving and the ungodly.
 
What are Jesuits doing today that is against Christian values?
How do we know what they do.
They don't advertise to us what they do.
I always had the understanding that the Jesuits were the military for the Vatican, not teachers at universities as many might think.
They are far more likely to be the leaders of the Knights of Columbus in this country.
Not sure how they would express themselves in other countries.
 
1 Thessalonians 4:16 doesn't say which trumpet.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 [that/because/since~hoti] [supreme in authority~kurios] [of them/he~autos] [to descend~katabaino] [separation/origin of a cause~apo] [air/heaven/sky~ouranos] [in/by/with~en] [a cry of incitement/shout~keleuma] [in/by/with~en] [a sound/voice/speech~phone] [archangel~archaggelos] [even/then/also~kai] [in/by/with~en] [a trumpet~salpigx] [Elohiym/God~theos] [even/then/also~kai] [dead/death~nekros] [in/by/with~en] [Christ/anointed~Christos] [to rise~anistemi] [first in time or place~proton]
 
1 Corinthians 15:52 does say which trumpet, the last trumpet.

1 Corinthians 15:52 [in/by/with~en] [that cannot be cut in two, or divided, of a moment of time~atomos] [in/by/with~en] [twinkling~rhipe] [the eyes of the mind, the faculty of knowing~ophthalmos] [in/by/with~en] [the last~eschatos] [a trumpet~salpigx] [for(gar-in the Beginning)~gar] [to sound a trumpet~salpizo] [even/then/also~kai] [dead/death~nekros] [to awaken~egeiro] [uncorrupted/immortal~aphthartos] [even/then/also~kai] [us/we~hemeis] [to change/to exchange one thing for another/to transform~allasso]
 
How do we know what they do.
They don't advertise to us what they do.
I always had the understanding that the Jesuits were the military for the Vatican, not teachers at universities as many might think.
They are far more likely to be the leaders of the Knights of Columbus in this country.
Not sure how they would express themselves in other countries.

I just think that if one can't say exactly what a particular Christian group is doing wrong then they shouldn't be slandered.
 
There is a fairly strong theme throughout the NT of Christians suffering for their faith, and how trials/tribulations can actually be good for us, spiritually. Even if there were no scriptures to support this, I think my own personal experience would convince me that suffering is not wrong or bad so long as I have a reason to endure the suffering. I believe "purpose" and "meaning" make all the difference between suffering and discipline.

I don't see a problem with going through the Great Tribulation, because I don't think tribulation is meant to destroy and because it will be a time when the people of the Earth will need strong spiritual guidance. It will be our time to really shine for the kingdom of Heaven, even if all we accomplish is to die for our faith. As the saying goes, if you don't have anything worth dying for, do you really have anything worth living for?

Just after Jesus said to Judas, "what you do, do quickly" he followed up with, "Now is the son of man glorified". He seemed to see a connection between persecution and glory, probably because it is through hardship and persecution that the values of Heaven stand out all the more.
 
Again where does the Bible say the great tribulation My quick search is in KJ i will tell you KJ does not say the great tribulation
 
I just think that if one can't say exactly what a particular Christian group is doing wrong then they shouldn't be slandered.
Okay, anathema means be cursed.
The Roman Catholic church reaffirmed that at every meeting they have up to this present day.
It says so in my current Roman Catholic catechism.
If they want to curse me, then I don't have a problem speaking out against them.
 
There is a fairly strong theme throughout the NT of Christians suffering for their faith, and how trials/tribulations can actually be good for us, spiritually. Even if there were no scriptures to support this, I think my own personal experience would convince me that suffering is not wrong or bad so long as I have a reason to endure the suffering. I believe "purpose" and "meaning" make all the difference between suffering and discipline.

I don't see a problem with going through the Great Tribulation, because I don't think tribulation is meant to destroy and because it will be a time when the people of the Earth will need strong spiritual guidance. It will be our time to really shine for the kingdom of Heaven, even if all we accomplish is to die for our faith. As the saying goes, if you don't have anything worth dying for, do you really have anything worth living for?

Just after Jesus said to Judas, "what you do, do quickly" he followed up with, "Now is the son of man glorified". He seemed to see a connection between persecution and glory, probably because it is through hardship and persecution that the values of Heaven stand out all the more.
There is a coalition between suffering and glory mentioned in scripture.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God (All God’s children are heirs), and joint-heirs with Christ; IF (Not all God’s children are Joint-heirs) so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him . . . (Is it possible some Christians will be denied the position of reigning with Jesus?)

Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

1 Pet 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1 Pet 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
 
What are Jesuits doing today that is against Christian values?

First I want to make it clear I am not bashing Catholics for that is not my intent, but explaining who the beast is that comes up out of the earth in Rev 13:11-18.

The Jesuits have always secretly controlled the government of every nation from the time of Ignatius Loyola and his military background as the Pope gave approval for the Society of Jesus in 1540. The Jesuit Order is not a religious order, but in its own right a self governed military order as was the old Babylonian Roman Empire. They disguise themselves as a religious order under the heading of Roman Catholicism that call themselves Christians, but are actually a Luciferians Roman Catholic system who sends their blinded to truth missionaries out into the world causing a great falling away from the true God of all creation as they preach a different gospel, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4. Here is a list of past and present organizations and people you can research who have been and still are controlled by Jesuit Roman dictatorship and their secret plot of world domination as they annihilate anyone who will not conform and bow down to their false gods.

This is a partial list of what the Jesuit Militant Priesthood has controlled from their beginning in 1540: Inquisition, Crusaders, Knights Templar, Illuminati, high level Freemasonry, Jesuit infiltration of the English colonies on the North American continent, Banksters, Vatican Bank, Agenda 21 and 2030, World Trade Organization, Bilderbergers Club, Rothschild’s, Rockefeller's, Constantine, Hitler, Mussolini, Roman Catholic Ecumenical Assemblies (RCEA) and The Global Eucharistic Community (GEC).
 
Last edited:
Lets not close this thread tread lightly

Discussions of conspiracy theories often lead to slander and hostile debate. Therefore, discussion of conspiracy theories is prohibited.
We understand it is a fine line...
 
Remember Rollo, remember...
You're on thin ice Rollo...
Remember...
Yes, I remember those days when I was a Roman Catholic....
A big chunk of my life at that.
 
Quite the opposite. These end time events have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with God's plans for His Church. They have everything to do with God's plans for the unbelieving and the ungodly.
They have everything to do with Gods true Church being the body of Christ, especially Rev Chapter 14 and 19. Those who believe in a pretrib rapture for the way it is being taught by a misinterpretation of a vision and not by the very word of God that started back in the 1800's would not understand the deeper things of John's visions in Revelation.

John was given these revelations by the angel of God who Jesus sent to him to write to the seven Churches of his time as warnings so those who are still alive during the end of days will be prepared and not fear that of Gods great wrath on that great and terrible day of the Lord. John could only correlate those visions to his time here on earth as we can only understand them in our present day and age clear up to the generations that will still be here when Christ returns at the end of days here on this present earth.
 
1 Thessalonians 4:16 doesn't say which trumpet.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 [that/because/since~hoti] [supreme in authority~kurios] [of them/he~autos] [to descend~katabaino] [separation/origin of a cause~apo] [air/heaven/sky~ouranos] [in/by/with~en] [a cry of incitement/shout~keleuma] [in/by/with~en] [a sound/voice/speech~phone] [archangel~archaggelos] [even/then/also~kai] [in/by/with~en] [a trumpet~salpigx] [Elohiym/God~theos] [even/then/also~kai] [dead/death~nekros] [in/by/with~en] [Christ/anointed~Christos] [to rise~anistemi] [first in time or place~proton]

No it doesn't, but 1Corinthians 15:52 says the last trumpet and there are only seven as the seventh trumpet would cover everything from Rev 11:15 through Rev chapter 19 when we are taken up to the clouds to meet Jesus in the air and come back with him as He fights the final battle and then we will be with the Lord forever.
 
Back
Top