Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[jasonc]

One could pressume that John saw a nuke blast but on the scale to kill the ocean like that it would render life on earth impossible.

Nevermind the third of the sun going dark.or a nuclear winter

 

[dianegcook]

Diane you said "These were deceived, by the so called Harlot, the ones that buyeth her merchandise.." there's a reason for that the reason why she flaunts herself going undetected.. Its found here in..

Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

"the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication"

When your drunk you'll buy just about anything the bartender is dishing out..

Yep
They commit adultery, intoxicated with her lies.
They are suppose to be a virgin bride, spiritually, but committed fornication, spiritually.
When Christ comes back and sees them laid up, spiritually, with the false one, then they are no longer His virgin bride, spiritually.
You see the harlot dressed in royalty, representing the deceived church.

 

[jasonc]

Yep
They commit adultery, intoxicated with her lies.
They are suppose to be a virgin bride, spiritually, but committed fornication, spiritually.
When Christ comes back and sees them laid up, spiritually, with the false one, then they are no longer His virgin bride, spiritually.
You see the harlot dressed in royalty, representing the deceived church.

I see it as ancient isreal,rather judaism.

 

[dianegcook]

I agree as some things in Rev are symbolic, but also likened as in the literal of what John saw in the visions that were familiar to him, but could never perceive the literal things to come in the future as in our time.

Rev 17 gives us a description of who this great harlot is as being the old Babylonian Empire that has always persecuted Gods people. Rev 18 also describes this harlot and how she will be destroyed in the end of days and that people need to come out of her before it's to late.The Babylon Empire of that time had risen to become a Roman Empire in John’s day as they even today control the government of Jerusalem. It was through this antichrist government that persecuted those to death who carried the witness and testimony of Jesus as they went out preaching in His name establishing the Church of Jesus wherever they traveled to.

In 538 AD it became a Papal Roman government with Emperor Justinian’s decree and under the military protection of Belisarius and the beast (Pope) until the deadly wound, Revelation 13:3, came in 1798 by General Berthier who made his entrance into Rome and abolished the papal government and established a secular one. This was the time when Rome persecuted the Christians and killed them which were approximately 500 million saints slain for the cause of their faith in Jesus.

Napoleon had closed down the Catholic Church and the Papacy and its power was thought to be forever broken. The wound, Revelation 13:3, was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. Today the Vatican has formal diplomatic relations with almost every country in the world.

Daniel Chapter 7 was an interpretation of a dream that Nebuchadnezzar had about four nations. Within these four nations we see how Satan tries to rule through man, but the kingdom of God prevails in judgment against these nations and the nations are turned over to the people of God for eternity. Notice also where these present day places in parentheses are located. Pagan nations also were often called beast in the Old Testament, which shows us to not take some words literally, but to define the definition of the word.

Four nations that have always persecuted those of Gods holding with the last one being Papal Roman Empire:

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire:
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

Hi there
Is it Rome, I don't know about that.
In 2Thess.2:4
He as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
I believe it will be in Jerusalem, God's favorite place.
As when He comes back, Mt. Olive

 

[reba]

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Does not read like a favorite place to me.

 

[dianegcook]

2 Thes 2:6 and is interesting. The restrainer is removed..then anti-christ is revealed.

Who is the restrainer? The Christians?
The Holy Spirit?

If it's the Christians..that's pre-trib.
If it's the Holy Spirit...whe the HS is removed....we go with the HS.

2 Thes 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His comin

Hi Cygnus
I see that scripture differently, as probably others see it different as you and I, lol
2Thess.2:1-9
We beseech you brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him.
That day, shall not come, just one day here, first
falling away and the Son of perdition.
9, Even Him, whose coming is after the working of Satan.
As in Matt.24:29-31
After the tribulation.....see the Son of man coming in the clouds, gather His Elect.
Back to 2Thess.2:6-8
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in His time, So called Anti Christ.
Only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
It is a transit verb, back to the subject of the Son of perdition.
I believe this is referring to Michael, Rev.12:7-10
Michael boots Satan and his angels out.
2Thess.2:8
Then the Lord shall consume him with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming.
Taken out of the way....

 

[dianegcook]

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Does not read like a favorite place to me.

Hi Reba
You are speaking of the 2 witnesses,
Jesus will rule with a rod of iron, from Jerusalem....Ezek.40:2
The visions of God brought He me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain,
Ezek.40:46
And the chamber whose prospect is toward the north is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the altar, these are the sons of Zadok, Elect, which minister to the Lord.
Ezek.45:4
The holy portion of the land shall be for the priests the ministers of the sanctuary, which come and minister unto the Lord......
Rev.20:6
But they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years....

 

[jasonc]

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Does not read like a favorite place to me.

Nope

 

[for_his_glory]

Neither of those qualify as an end time event.the sea near isreal and rivers turn red from the slaughter of men as recorded by josephus

Gods wrath being poured out in Revelations is not centered just around Israel, but Globally as no nation will be exempt from Gods chastisements including the USA. One third of trees, land, water and people are being destroyed by what could be meteors like in the great mountain burning with fire that falls into the sea's killing one third of sea life plus ships and boats at sea and the people that are on them. Burning stars falling from heaven and a third part of the sun, moon and stars being darkened. One could only imagine what all of this will do to the economy, fuel source, food source, fresh drinking water, electric grid and peoples health just because they refuse to repent turning a deaf ear while the Gospels are being preached to them. This is all confirmed in Rev Chapter 8-11.

Gods patience and longsuffering will come to an end and He would that none should perish, but many will and many will also have an ear to hear and repent before it's to late.

 

[jasonc]

Gods wrath being poured out in Revelations is not centered just around Israel, but Globally as no nation will be exempt from Gods chastisements including the USA. One third of trees, land, water and people are being destroyed by what could be meteors like in the great mountain burning with fire that falls into the sea's killing one third of sea life plus ships and boats at sea and the people that are on them. Burning stars falling from heaven and a third part of the sun, moon and stars being darkened. One could only imagine what all of this will do to the economy, fuel source, food source, fresh drinking water, electric grid and peoples health just because they refuse to repent turning a deaf ear while the Gospels are being preached to them. This is all confirmed in Rev Chapter 8-11.

Gods patience and longsuffering will come to an end and He would that none should perish, but many will and many will also have an ear to hear and repent before it's to late.

Im going to disagree.why?

One question who are the apostles slain in revalation 17? If that is the future where are the 12?

 

[jasonc]

Stars as they age become bigger.and let's bright.beatleguese is an orange drwarf star it's bigger then our sun and puts our less light.it's also so big that if it's in the center our system that our planet would be engulfed by it.if I'm not mistaken

 

[for_his_glory]

You said..."Then we come back down to earth as part of His army"

That's would be the second time Jesus comes back.
1st time to get us...second time with us.

Jesus comes down once no further then the air which is the first heaven (atmosphere) where we meet Him in the air and then continues with us being that army from heaven (first heaven) and will fight the final battle with a sharp sword meaning His spoken words that smite the nations, Rev 19.

 

[for_his_glory]

2 Thes 2:6 and is interesting. The restrainer is removed..then anti-christ is revealed.

Who is the restrainer? The Christians?
The Holy Spirit?

If it's the Christians..that's pre-trib.
If it's the Holy Spirit...whe the HS is removed....we go with the HS.

2 Thes 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His comin

The restrainer is the son of perdition who is the false prophet, 2Thess 2:3-11. There is not just one antichrist as scripture says there are many and we know this will be the last one, 1John 2:18.

 

[reba]

Where do you say the temple of God is?

 

[for_his_glory]

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Does not read like a favorite place to me.

For now it is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt as even God waits for Israel to repent, Malachi 4, but God is going to change all that as He purifies Jerusalem at the end of days in order to usher down the new Jerusalem and then we will be with the Lord forever

 

[reba]

How does God's temple end up in Jerusalem?

 

[for_his_glory]

Im going to disagree.why?

One question who are the apostles slain in revalation 17? If that is the future where are the 12?

There are no apostles in Rev 17. This chapter is describing who the great harlot is as mystery Babylon the great,the Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Chapter 18 tells how she is destroyed and the earth mourns her, but heaven rejoices her destruction.

 

[for_his_glory]

Stars as they age become bigger.and let's bright.beatleguese is an orange drwarf star it's bigger then our sun and puts our less light.it's also so big that if it's in the center our system that our planet would be engulfed by it.if I'm not mistaken

Please read Rev 8:6-13. It's a great star called Wormwood sent down to earth and fell on the third part of the rivers and the fountain of the waters meaning streams. This star is called Wormwood because wormwood is a plant that can be potentially toxic in its pure form and has a bitter aroma to it. In large amounts, it can cause damage to the nervous system, resulting in convulsions, loss of muscle control, and sometimes death. Now we have a third part of the world without fresh water to drink.

 

[dianegcook]

In Rome for now, but will be moved to Jerusalem as the Jesuits are preparing to set up their deceptive false Christ-like kingdom of God here on earth as their headquarters will move from Vatican City in Rome to the Dome of the Rock in the Holy city of Jerusalem as Satan proclaimed this in Isaiah 14:13. The Luciferians Roman Catholic system and their false prophet Pope will take control of not only the temple mount, but gather all nations together as one nation under their New World Order as the Pope takes his dictatorship seat on the throne of Gods temple declaring he is the true God and forcing the world to take the mark of this beast religious system.

Thanks...

 

[for_his_glory]

Where do you say the temple of God is?

The Temple of God is within us, 1Cor 3:16,17.
Jerusalem has always been Gods Holy City even though Satan has worked through man to defiled the Holy City. God will purify or make new the heaven and the earth at the end of days when He makes an end to all abominations that have caused desolation and cast it all into the lake of fire. Once the new heaven and new earth has been prepared then God will usher down the new Jerusalem as God being the tabernacle within us will then dwell with us and we will be His people and He our God, Rev 21:1-3.