dianegcook
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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural
- Thread starter for_his_glory
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dianegcook
Member
Hi markathome
Whom are you speaking to? Lol
If me, I said nothing of 1 Cor.3:16,17.
The whore of Babylon has been before Johns time, at Johns time, in our time and clear up to the end of time when she is cast into the lake of fire.
You have to study the four nations in Daniel Chapter 7 to understand that within these four nations we see how Satan tries to rule through them and through the last nation that will reveal the son of perdition and the false prophet, but the kingdom of God prevails in judgment against these nations and the nations are turned over to the people of God for eternity.
The whore describes Babylon and her three children.
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
We know about Babylon and how she held Israel captive and killed many of the Jews and taking Jerusalem captive and destroying the Temple. Mystery Babylon is the name given to the last Babylonian whore empire she gave birth to through her generation. These are the three children the whore mother of harlots of the Babylonian Empire gave birth to as the last one being the abomination of desolation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15, described in Rev 17 and will be destroyed in Rev 18.
Below are the four nations that Daniel spoke of in Daniel Chapter 7. The first is the mother of harlots being the first whore and the last three are the harlot daughters of her later generations.
Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.
Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.
Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.
Roman Empire:
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
Now read these scriptures:
Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Douglas Summers
Member
That means you share "for His glory's doctrine". The Lord does not leave us with Doctrines by self conclusions. Pre Tribulation was Doctrine of Christ and the Apostles. God deals in absolutes, not in denominational doctrines of men.. If the Church was not taken out before "Jacobs Troubles" (That refers to Israel) and the Gentile. (The feet of the statue in Daniel), God would have told us, but instead, The visible church will remain, but the true Church will not be in that temptation that shall test all that are left behind. (Rev. 3:10) Nothing is impossible in Scripture if God says so. This is not sarcasm, but sound doctrine of what I know to be true. I have been accused of thinking I am above others by the teaching that has been revealed to me and other born again believers. but it is out of a necessity of the Holy Spirit to give all truth and knowledge of the purpose and grace of God before judgment. For the sown fields will soon be full grown and ready to be harvested. While the Church will suffer persecution, They will not be tested with the Great and terrible day of the Lord.
markathome
Member
Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Sounds a like lot Hollywood, they are the Porn Capital of the World. If it's Spiritual Fornication then Saudi Arabia wins it.
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Sounds a like lot Hollywood, they are the Porn Capital of the World. If it's Spiritual Fornication then Saudi Arabia wins it.
Sinthesis
Member
Persia, Greece, and Rome aren't Babylon's children. The gentile nations were never betrothed to God so they can't be considered unfaithful whores or harlots.
Douglas Summers
Member
Understanding that helps clear up a lot of carnal interpretations of Revelations.
markathome
Member
Revelation 17:5
Abomination: of idols and things pertaining to idolatry
Babylon = "confusion"
an idolatress = harlot/whore
Where is the motherland of idolatry that tries to replace the name of Elohim/God with an idol that fell from the sky? ~ 1.6 billion people pray to the Abomination 3-5 times daily!
Have ears and hear not, have eyes and see not.
Abomination: of idols and things pertaining to idolatry
Babylon = "confusion"
an idolatress = harlot/whore
Where is the motherland of idolatry that tries to replace the name of Elohim/God with an idol that fell from the sky? ~ 1.6 billion people pray to the Abomination 3-5 times daily!
Have ears and hear not, have eyes and see not.
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Rev 22:18-20. This is not my doctrine of self conclusion or was this ever taught to me by any Church for even the ones I use to attend all taught a pretrib theory, but those teachings never set well in my spirit so I decided to do a deeper search over eighteen years ago. As what I have learned is that of what Christ has already testified of and only the Holy Spirit can teach us in all truths if we have Spiritual ears to hear what the Spirit speaks. When we separate our self from that of what man has taught and read the scriptures for what is written then we can read what is actually written. I compare scripture with scripture, OT with NT reading word for word, sentence by sentence as this gives me the whole and not just bits and pieces. From that of the OT I see history repeating itself in the NT even until the end of days.
These verses below testify that we who are still alive at this time will go through all seven trumpets of Gods chastisements of His great wrath on those who refuse to repent. We are not to fear that which has to come, Matthew 10:28, as we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, John 6:27; Ephesians 4:30, which is Gods wrath poured out on the nations. We are changed and then caught up to meet Jesus in the air, 1Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 before the seven vile judgments that will begin at the last trumpet being the seventh sounding as we are that army that comes back with Jesus in Rev 19.
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is showing us to look for the signs of his coming
Rev 5:13; 6:16,17 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days
Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were and we are in the midst of the seven seals right now heading towards the seven trumpets
Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation; fulfillment of the gentiles
Rev 8:13 Three woes are war, earthquakes, and meteors
Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about Papal Rome ruling the world again as a one world government. 666 represents action of the hands and thoughts of the mind
Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children
Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. How could they repent if the Gospel wasn't being preached to them as faith comes by hearing the words of God.
Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of the greatest tribulation the earth has ever known nor will ever see again. This is Gods rapture of his bride or as scripture calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air
Rev 19:7,8 We have made ourselves ready by enduring great tribulations, even to death; we had to go through before the end of days
Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until Jesus came back in the clouds for us
Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth
Of course these gentile nations were never betrothed to God as they have always came against God and persecuted Gods people. These are the nations in rank of their order throughout history that started with the Babylonian Empire and the last three birthed from her. They have always killed the prophets and the saints of God. They nailed Jesus to the cross, killed His apostles and will continues to do so through the generational lineage with the revived Roman Empire being the last harlot with its beast and false prophet who will be thrown into the lake of fire with their whore mother who birthed her harlot children and are the abominations of the earth.
I'm being serious. Can you show me with scripture where the word pretrib is used as I can not find it and please do not use 1 Corinthians 15 or 1Thessalonians 4 because these say nothing about any pretrib rapture. We all know the rapture means being caught up by these scriptures. I see nothing in scripture about a pretrib rapture before "The Great Tribulation" which even that is not found in scripture either.
That's always been apart of it as in the beginning with Babylon and the region she was located in. She was destroyed and her generation spread throughout the nations causing all abominations that take place here on earth until her leader Satan is cast into the lake of fire with his beast and false prophet. This all happens at the end of Gods great wrath when Christ returns in the air and gathers up His army into the clouds to meet Him in the air and comes down and fights the final battle casting down all the abominations that have caused desolation to all Gods children that have repented and turned back to Him.
Douglas Summers
Member
There is none that I know of, but Christ says He will keep his Church from the hour of temptation that will come upon all the world (Rev. 3:10). The tribulation is 7 years and in two parts. The first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation where the Gentile mystery religion (Babylon) beguiles the Jew into peace and safety. Then the last 3 1/2 years are called the "Great Tribulation" when the mystery religion (Babylon) turns on Israel and the Jew to destroy Israel and the Jew. The reason Babylon mystery religion is called a whore is first, it is not the worship that Israel was given by God (it was nothing like it) and Israel was married to it, and Second, It does not involve or have anything to do with the Lord. It is a religion the replaces God and prostitutes itself as (the only god to be worshiped) by the spirit of Satan, and Israel left God for another.
There are two Babylon mysteries. A false religion and a false kingdom ( the two beast ) (Revelation chapters 17 & 18). One beast over the mystery religion and another beast over the mystery political system, all under the spirit of Satan.
Just as the word trinity is not in Scripture, there is Scripture that proves it. So it is with the coming of the Lord for His Church before (Jacobs trouble) (Jer. 30:7) Jacobs trouble is the same Tribulation in Revelation.
The Church is not in the 7 year tribulation because it is about Gentile nations and Israel It is a period called "The fullfillment of The Times of The Gentiles". (Luke 21:20-24) This Scripture is about the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation. It is not the Church that are preaching the Gospel during this time, it is the 144,000 anointed Jews (Revelation chapter 7). At this time in God's plan, He is not saving the world at this time but calling out His Church (body). It is during the great Tribulation upon all the world that more men will be saved that no man can count. But you are wrong about 1 Thess. 4: 13:-18 describes exactly what a rapture is. And in (2 Thess. 2:3) The word "falling away" is actually a miss translation of the Greek (apostasia) meaning "the departure". And that Greek word translated in The Vulgate translation to Latin is "raptureis", Which is where we got the word "Rapture" from.
and no one can post a verse saying The great tribulation
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
Notice that the Resurrection and Rapture are one event, that takes place at His Coming.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
The Raptured ones shall be caught up with the Resurrected ones, as all will be gathered together to meet the Lord in the air.
JLB
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Revelation 7:13-14
JLB
dianegcook
Member
Hi there Douglas
Rev.3:10
That doesn't prove the pretrib rapture to me.
He will keep me from the "hour of temptation" with truth.
I will not find the false one tempting but rather an abomination.
Rev.17:12
And the 10 horns (nations) which thou sawest are 10 kings, (power) which have received no kingdom as yet, but receive power as kings, one hour with the beast.
Another church that God found no fault in....
In Rev.2:8-11
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer, behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that he may be tried, and ye shall have tribulation 10 days, be faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life...
He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death...
Mark 13:9-11
..for they shall deliver you up to councils and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten, and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them....
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate, but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, speak ye, for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.....
My belief...