Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[turnorburn]

Just found this about 20 minutes ago read what it says about "The Great tribulation" and "Great tribulation..

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

Wow Eugene you beat me by a moment ago...

 

[JLB]

Where does the 1000 year reign fit in?

It's the rest we have attained to.

We will have rest from our enemies, as Satan will be bound, and the wicked will be removed.

We will have rest from the constant sinful flesh striving against the Spirit within, as we will have immortal bodies that will never die because they are free of sin.

Rest and peace.

All those beautiful places on earth that you have only seen on TV or Magazines, or internet... You will get a first hand tour from Jesus.

It will only last 1000 years.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Why is the Church missing this?

The Church doesn't miss anything.

The only way you get to Heaven is to die.

When Jesus returns to gather His people, we will be caught up together; the resurrected ones and raptured ones will all be together.

All His people in heaven and on earth will be gathered together, to meet the Lord in the air... On His way down from Heaven to Jerusalem.

... and in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4


13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

This event is called the Day of the Lord. Which makes sense since it is the Day, the Lord Jesus Christ, comes from heaven to earth to execute the vengeance of God upon the wicked.

That's why it is also called the Day of Christ. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Those who were resurrected from the dead, will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

The coming of the Lord and resurrection of the dead are after the tribulation.


If you have some scriptures that show us the coming of the Lord and the resurrection is before the tribulation, then please, by all means post them for us.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Just found this about 20 minutes ago read what it says about "The Great tribulation" and "Great tribulation..

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

Wow Eugene you beat me by a moment ago...

Read what this says:
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Revelation 7:13-14

 

[Malachi]

Being caught up to the clouds to meet Jesus in the air is only a one time event when Jesus returns as He does not come back twice.

If Christ did not first come FOR His saints, He could not return WITH His saints. This is so elementary that it should not even been disputed. You will not find a single Scripture where Christ is ascending while He is also descending. That is a purely fictitious scenario created by the ones who simply cannot see the imminency of the Rapture.

 

[Malachi]

The only way you get to Heaven is to die.

Amazing statement from one who actually quoted 1 Thess 4:13-18. Anyway, be careful what you wish for.

 

[Malachi]

Where does the 1000 year reign fit in?

Where it should. Not where Augustine imagined.

 

[Malachi]

The resurrection is the last day . What happens after the last day?

The "last day" extends for over 1000 years. So both the resurrections of the just and of the unjust are within that period of time. After the Millennium comes the Battle of Gog and Magog, then the Great White Throne judgement, then the New Heavens and the New Earth.

 

[reba]

not an answer to the question..
There is not a right or wrong answer to me .. just wondering how folks understand Scripture..

 

[reba]

Where do the Scriptures say the last day is 1000 years?

 

[turnorburn]

Where do the Scriptures say the last day is 1000 years?

Good question..

 

[turnorburn]

From the day Paul wrote this until this present day wolves have been savagely attacking the flock with gay abandon... changing Gods word to leave us with defective weapons. the devil has us thinking God isn't perfect and can't make up his mind.. Balderdash!

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

 

[Malachi]

Where do the Scriptures say the last day is 1000 years?

Well here's the thing. Many Christians expect everything to be explicitly stated in one place, but in fact we are to search the Scriptures. If you look up *last day* you will notice that the resurrection of the just is on the last day, but so is that of the unjust. However, Revelation 20 shows us that these two resurrections are separated BY AT LEAST one thousand years.

 

[reba]

It is all in how we understand the scriptures... how we interpret them...
Jesus the creator says last day.. How do we count time after the last day?

 

[Sinthesis]

Where does the 1000 year reign fit in?

Luk 17:21 - Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[markathome]

The Last Trumpet would be the First Trumpet if ya saw it backwards thru time.

 

[JLB]

Luk 17:21 - Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Just as true are these words -

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

 

[smaller]

The Last Trumpet would be the First Trumpet if ya saw it backwards thru time.

Very nice catch. In Revelation 1 here's what happened to John:

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

John is looking BACKWARDS at the Word of God, Christ in the scriptures, The Great Voice.

Time constraints are not always profitable when viewing matters such as the above. That TRUMPET still utters The Great Voice and still speaks to The Churches and every member therein.

 

[smaller]

It is all in how we understand the scriptures... how we interpret them...
Jesus the creator says last day.. How do we count time after the last day?

Quite a few eschatology expositors understand that technically speaking, Adam never entered into the Sabbath Rest 7th day of God. The "collective" sight is that man is still in the 6th day. The LAST DAY prior to the Sabbath. It's also the FIRST DAY of man. The first and last day are ONE very long day, at least from our perspectives.

Not all Bible math is "human" based sight of math. Human based hours on a clock. Human based perspectives of time/times. We also know that a particular character/bad actor who was in the Garden is still on earth today.

That's a very long time, singular application. Satan was here FIRST before any of us who are alive today. So mentions of FIRST and LAST in the scriptures change in perspectives when we get ALL the parties on the table for viewing.

 

[Sinthesis]

'First' and 'Last' depend on the context in which they are used.