Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

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After John "HEARD ALL" the Words of Jesus to the churchES, then, afterwards, he saw what was coming.

And, he was there to the finale, which would tell any listener if they will be involved or not. Not is not an option.

There is no early out. There is no "discharge" in the war.

Where is the blood of ALL SAINTS found?

Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

I might suggest that IF a person believes they are A SAINT they might perceive their mandatory state here in earth is in fact IN HER. Whether seen or not however it remains true and WILL be seen by every saint who departs their flesh upon death of same.

Psalm 149:9
To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord.

Let me know, anyone, when they figure out who THEM is. LoL. May God continue to PUT OUT THE EYES of His adversaries!

 

[Roro1972]

I dont cuz the great tribulation is not scriptural

reba you are right is is not written that way. but by placing "the" in front, it only mean a there is only one
no possibility of more than one. thats all "the" does; its a definite article used to indicate a noun that is unique:

 

[for_his_glory]

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven (was this throne just set for our Father?), and one sat on the throne.
Rev 4:8 . . . Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. (Jesus of Rev 1:8?)
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord (Jesus), to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things (Jn 1:3-4) (Col 1:16)

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Here I have to disagree as to the seven different locations of the One and only Church not being of God. To me they remain children of God, but are basically told to correct their walk or suffer different consequences, even told to Thyatira in Rev 2:22. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.

Pretrib teachers use the first two words "After this" in Rev 4:1 to mean the Church is Raptured out of here. They neglect all the other verses throughout Rev that confirm the Church as being the body of Christ will be here during all of Gods final chastisements during the seven trumpet and seven vial judgments on the nations (people) who refuse to repent and turn back to Him. Gods patience and longsuffering, 2Peter 3:9, is about to come to an end as Matthew 24:21 says, For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

No where in scripture does it mention "The Great Tribulation" as a separate event as the world has always had tribulations and at this time of Gods final wrath on all the nations that refuse to repent this will be the worst one that any have seen before nor ever will again as it is the last time God calls for repentance. The body of Christ has been sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30, and we need not fear what the enemy will do to us especially those who are anointed by God to preach the gospel during this time, Matthew 10:28, but to only stand in the holy place that is our faith that is Christ Jesus when we see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel, Matthew 24:15.

Rev chapters 2 and 3 God has somewhat against six of His Churches during the days of John and sends an angel to each one to give them warning, but only the Church of Philadelphia is found to be keeping Gods word. These warnings still stand today until the end of time as we, the body of Christ, hear these warnings of correction that we remain that example of the Church of Philadelphia in John's day that we bring glory and honor to God. After this in Rev 4:1 only means after that of the angel speaking to the seven Churches. From vs. 2-11 John is given a vision, while being in the Spirit here on earth, of the throne room of God as he saw the four beast and twenty four elders giving praise to the one true God sitting on the throne that has created all things for His good pleasure, Genesis Chapter 1, Nowhere in Chapter 4 does it speak of Jesus or He having any throne in Heaven as for now He sits on the right hand of God as our mediator before Him. It's not until Jesus returns with we His army in Rev 19 that He will sit on His thrown of glory ruling the nations with an iron rod of power and authority, Rev 2:27; 12:5; 19:15.

 

[for_his_glory]

In general, I think if your eschatology involves putting down other Christians to raise your own Christian self up, then you're probably mistaken. Sit yourself at the foot of the table.

To whom are you referring to?

 

[Sinthesis]

In general, I think if your eschatology involves putting down other Christians to raise your own Christian self up, then you're probably mistaken. Sit yourself at the foot of the table.

You didn't quote so who is that in answer to?

I've just noticed it in a couple of threads where people basically suggest the 'good' Christians are going to be raptured while the 'not-so-good' Christians are left behind, to be tribulated, because they weren't good enough. The idea seems conceited given the martyrdom of the apostles.

 

[for_his_glory]

I've just noticed it in a couple of threads where people basically suggest the 'good' Christians are going to be raptured while the 'not-so-good' Christians are left behind, to be tribulated, because they weren't good enough. The idea seems conceited given the martyrdom of the apostles.

The oppression that will cause much distress on those who refuse to repent as God pours out His greater wrath that has never been seen before nor ever will be seen, Matthew 24:21, is never meant for the saints of God no matter where they are in their walk with Christ as none of us are perfect and never will be until we receive our new glorified bodies and then be with the Lord forever. All the saints of God who are in the grave and still alive at this time of a greater tribulation that has never been seen before are all sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. Those who are still alive God will give a greater anointing on many of them to preach the gospel during this time, but to never fear that of what man can do to them for their witness and testimony of Christ, Matthew 10:28.We are to stand in the holy place that is our faith in Christ as we endure the persecutions of the abomination that will cause desolation to the saints of God as many will be persecuted to death for not taking the mark of this beast out of the earth and bow down to its false prophet. Matthew 24:15; Rev 13.

 

[Eugene]

Pretrib teachers use the first two words "After this" in Rev 4:1 to mean the Church is Raptured out of here. They neglect all the other verses throughout Rev that confirm the Church as being the body of Christ will be here during all of Gods final chastisements during the seven trumpet and seven vial judgments on the nations (people) who refuse to repent and turn back to Him. Gods patience and longsuffering, 2Peter 3:9, is about to come to an end as Matthew 24:21 says, For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

No where in scripture does it mention "The Great Tribulation" as a separate event as the world has always had tribulations and at this time of Gods final wrath on all the nations that refuse to repent this will be the worst one that any have seen before nor ever will again as it is the last time God calls for repentance. The body of Christ has been sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30, and we need not fear what the enemy will do to us especially those who are anointed by God to preach the gospel during this time, Matthew 10:28, but to only stand in the holy place that is our faith that is Christ Jesus when we see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel, Matthew 24:15.

Rev chapters 2 and 3 God has somewhat against six of His Churches during the days of John and sends an angel to each one to give them warning, but only the Church of Philadelphia is found to be keeping Gods word. These warnings still stand today until the end of time as we, the body of Christ, hear these warnings of correction that we remain that example of the Church of Philadelphia in John's day that we bring glory and honor to God. After this in Rev 4:1 only means after that of the angel speaking to the seven Churches. From vs. 2-11 John is given a vision, while being in the Spirit here on earth, of the throne room of God as he saw the four beast and twenty four elders giving praise to the one true God sitting on the throne that has created all things for His good pleasure, Genesis Chapter 1, Nowhere in Chapter 4 does it speak of Jesus or He having any throne in Heaven as for now He sits on the right hand of God as our mediator before Him. It's not until Jesus returns with we His army in Rev 19 that He will sit on His thrown of glory ruling the nations with an iron rod of power and authority, Rev 2:27; 12:5; 19:15.

Thanks sister. I reckon we'll all know for sure when all scripture comes to pass.

 

[turnorburn]

The verse says this... to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. it says about being destined for heaven.

We can read about some of the saints that will be with him when he comes in...

http://biblebelievers.com/foxes/findex.htm

This is what their saying while they wait..

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thanks sister. I reckon we'll all know for sure when all scripture comes to pass.

Yes we will and it is such a pleasure to discuss all this with you as you have a great mannerism about you.

 

[Malachi]

No where in scripture does it mention "The Great Tribulation" as a separate event as the world has always had tribulations...

It is a very dangerous thing to contradict the words of Christ, since we will give account for every word we have uttered. It is quite clear that you are very confused about this subject, but that is not an excuse. So in order to prove that you are not stating what is actually in Scripture, I will quote from the Bible to refute the above statement.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1)

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Mt 24:21)

For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. (Mk 13:19)

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (Lk 21:25,26)

 

[for_his_glory]

It is a very dangerous thing to contradict the words of Christ, since we will give account for every word we have uttered. It is quite clear that you are very confused about this subject, but that is not an excuse. So in order to prove that you are not stating what is actually in Scripture, I will quote from the Bible to refute the above statement. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Mt 24:21) For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. (Mk 13:19) And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (Lk 21:25,26)

You are right that we will give an account to Christ for the things we have said and done, but I am not confused of anything that I have learned from the Holy Spirit. One can quote all scripture from Genesis to Revelations, but if one has no idea what they are truly saying then they fall short of truth as they will be swayed by what others teach from the pulpit. This is called the falling away spoken of in 2Thessalonians 2:3.

These scriptures you present as evidence speak nothing of what many call "The Great Tribulation" as they speak of a greater continuing tribulation that has never been seen before, nor ever will be seen again. This tribulation period is Gods final call to repentance and what happens to those who refuse to repent during the seven trumpet and seven vial judgments. When Gods final wrath is finished then will Christ come in the air to meet His bride as they are gathered together with Him as He comes and plants His feet on the mount of Olives to fight the final battle casting Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet in who is the son of perdition. Then at that time the heaven and earth are made new again and the new Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven and we will be with the Lord forever. We all agree that there will be a great tribulation, but only as greater than any other the world has ever seen.

I ask no one to believe in the things I teach, but to really read the word carefully word by word for what has already been spoken by God. When we rid our minds of all those things we have been taught by man and use that anointing that is within us we will actually see that of what has always been there, but we have missed by allowing man to teach us, 1John 2:27.

I once believed in a Pretrib Rapture, but there were certain scriptures these pretrib teachers use that just do not read the way they see them in their mind as they follow a bandwagon type preaching of the word. What I have learned comes from no teacher other than the Holy Spirit that has opened my Spiritual eyes and ears to seek out truth by only using scripture as I need nothing more to teach me. If I am incorrect then the Holy Spirit will correct my error by either speaking to me or using someone else to show me my error as in the past when I was young in the word and followed everything that come from the pulpit.

Pretrib, Postrib or A-millennium has nothing to do with the return of Christ for scripture says that the angels nor Jesus, but only the Father knows when He will return, Matthew 24:36, but that we make our self ready and continue preaching the gospel for when He does return. Matthew 24:29-31 does give us the signs to watch for and let those who have ears to hear understand that it is at the end of the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen nor will ever see again.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I've just noticed it in a couple of threads where people basically suggest the 'good' Christians are going to be raptured while the 'not-so-good' Christians are left behind, to be tribulated, because they weren't good enough. The idea seems conceited given the martyrdom of the apostles.

Still not certain but if you meant me I'll continue to stand with God and, unfortunately for almost all of the world, god will not compromise.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Still not certain but if you meant me I'll continue to stand with God and, unfortunately for almost all of the world, god will not compromise.

Syn, I like you but please be careful answering here because that reply with the quote skirts just of the edge of the ice as far as the ToS is.

 

[Sinthesis]

Syn, I like you but please be careful answering here because that reply with the quote skirts just of the edge of the ice as far as the ToS is.

I didn't have any of your posts in mind. I have no idea how I was testing the ToS.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I've just noticed it in a couple of threads where people basically suggest the 'good' Christians are going to be raptured while the 'not-so-good' Christians are left behind, to be tribulated, because they weren't good enough. The idea seems conceited given the martyrdom of the apostles.

This quote was what made me ask and in the answer you quoted me making it personal. That's all.

 

[Malachi]

These scriptures you present as evidence speak nothing of what many call "The Great Tribulation" as they speak of a greater continuing tribulation that has never been seen before, nor ever will be seen again.

How can these Scriptures speak of "a greater continuing tribulation" when the words of Christ make it crystal clear that this is a UNIQUE, UNPRECEDENTED, AND AWFUL TIME in the history of mankind? Something which has never been before, nor will ever be again cannot be a continuation of anything.

 

[for_his_glory]

How can these Scriptures speak of "a greater continuing tribulation" when the words of Christ make it crystal clear that this is a UNIQUE, UNPRECEDENTED, AND AWFUL TIME in the history of mankind? Something which has never been before, nor will ever be again cannot be a continuation of anything.

Mat_24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Notice the word great meaning during this time of tribulation it will be greater than any other that has ever been nor will ever be as it is the last one against those enemies of God who refuse to repent. Every tribulation that has ever been spoken of in scripture will never compare to the magnitude of this one as it is global and not confined to just one area. Gods people have always had tribulations and as Paul says in Romans 5:3 we glory in tribulation for it works patience, experience and hope.

 

[Corn Pop]

I dont believe in pre trib rapture because Christ never promised anyone protection from trials and tribulation, everyone goes through trials and tribulations in life.

 

[Cygnus]

I dont believe in pre trib rapture because Christ never promised anyone protection from trials and tribulation, everyone goes through trials and tribulations in life.

1st Thes 1:10
....and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
1st Thes 5:9:
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Paul responds by reassuring the Church that they are not appointed or desitined to wrath, meaning the wrath of Tribulation.

 

[reba]

How can the tribulation be any more than at the time of Noah.. only 8 folks survived it..