Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[for_his_glory]

There are three kinds of people in the world. One kind is weeded out, leaving just two kinds of people in the world.

Could you give more detail please?

 

[Cygnus]

How could they accept Jesus if a pretrib would occur? There would be none left to preach the gospel to those who would finally have ears to hear.

There could be the guy who says....What just happened is what Joe talked about....look here's his bible, lets check it out....and opening up John 3:16, they get saved.

 

[markathome]

We all die someday, i would rather be here to watch the show, up to a point.
That's the day that this/or a future generation will get to see, the rapture.
temple = body && temple != body
The Holy Ghost cannot be in the same temple with Satan. Holy of Holies, Blaspheme of The Holy Ghost aka Rapture?
The Holy Ghost can be in the same temple with demons thru Jesus who is our Lawyer.
The Holy Ghost can be in the same temple with our spirit thru Jesus who is our Lawyer.

 

[for_his_glory]

There could be the guy who says....What just happened is what Joe talked about....look here's his bible, lets check it out....and opening up John 3:16, they get saved.

Sorry, that isn't going to fly. Satan believes, demons believe and even tremble at His name, are they saved...............no. Even if they read that verse how could they be Spiritually born again according to John 3:5. When we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit so how could they be spiritually regenerated.

 

[for_his_glory]

We all die someday, i would rather be here to watch the show, up to a point.
That's the day that this/or a future generation will get to see, the rapture.
temple = body && temple != body
The Holy Ghost cannot be in the same temple with Satan. Holy of Holies, Blaspheme of The Holy Ghost aka Rapture?
The Holy Ghost can be in the same temple with demons thru Jesus who is our Lawyer.
The Holy Ghost can be in the same temple with our spirit thru Jesus who is our Lawyer.

A pretrib Rapture would be very selfish of us wanting this to be as the preaching of the Gospel needs to be until the end of days as there will be many that will finally have ears to hear.

 

[Cygnus]

Sorry, that isn't going to fly. Satan believes, demons believe and even tremble at His name, are they saved...............no. Even if they read that verse how could they be Spiritually born again according to John 3:5. When we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit so how could they be spiritually regenerated.

Demons can't be saved...people can.

Secondly, prior to pentecost people were spiritual born again...and had not received the Holy Spirit.

 

[for_his_glory]

Demons can't be saved...people can.

Secondly, prior to pentecost people were spiritual born again...and had not received the Holy Spirit.

That is my point. Demons can not be saved as they are slaves to Satan and deny any faith in Christ just as man does.

Prior to Pentecost no one was spiritually born again. OT believers were not baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, since the church didn’t exist yet and the Holy Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified, John 7:39. Prior to Pentecost those who followed Christ were considered faithful Jews just as those who followed faithful Abraham in whom God made His covenant with him, Genesis 12. All Jews, even those who walked with Jesus, were under the Old covenant and many were faithful to the commands of God and were buried as faithful man and woman of God. They never had a permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit as it was only given as selective and temporary for those individuals God used for specific tasks as the Holy Spirit only came on them, not indwelled them, Numbers 27:18; 1Samuel 10:10; 16:12,13.

 

[JLB]

There could be the guy who says....What just happened is what Joe talked about....look here's his bible, lets check it out....and opening up John 3:16, they get saved.

You have a fantastic imagination.


...And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14



JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

Could you give more detail please?

It's just another way of looking at the scriptural message. So, for example, you could have God's people divided into faithful Jews, unfaithful Jews, and Christians. The unfaithful Jews get weeded out until there are only faithful Jews and Christians left.

 

[for_his_glory]

It's just another way of looking at the scriptural message. So, for example, you could have God's people divided into faithful Jews, unfaithful Jews, and Christians. The unfaithful Jews get weeded out until there are only faithful Jews and Christians left.

Thank you. There is also another division with the Christian as well as God will weed out those who only give lip service and like to be seen of others like that of the scribes and Pharisees that Jesus characterizes and condemns in Matthew 23.

 

[markathome]

A pretrib Rapture would be very selfish of us wanting this to be as the preaching of the Gospel needs to be until the end of days as there will be many that will finally have ears to hear.

Agreed

We all die someday, i would rather be here to watch the show BUT up to a point.
That's the day that this/or a future generation will get to see, the rapture.
A pre-trib rapture is wrong? but at some point it's going to happen, references to "the tribulation" as to the reason for the rapture is misleading.

Is it possible that the only reason for the rapture, is to save us from losing our salvation because the Holy Ghost is removed from planet earth and replaced with the UnHoly Ghost?

example:
temple = body && temple != body
The Holy Ghost cannot be in the same temple with the UnHoly Ghost. aka Holy of Holies, it would be Blaspheme of The Holy Ghost.
The Holy Ghost can be in the same temple with demons thru Jesus who is our Lawyer.
The Holy Ghost can be in the same temple with our spirit thru Jesus who is our Lawyer.

After the rapture there is no more salvation thru faith, since that which is unseen becomes seen.
Salvation after the rapture comes with a sacrifice, your head.

 

[Sinthesis]

Thank you. There is also another division with the Christian as well as God will weed out those who only give lip service and like to be seen of others like that of the scribes and Pharisees that Jesus characterizes and condemns in Matthew 23.

At the individual level there is no division in Christianity. There are actual Christians, and there are those who just pretend to be Christians. At the corporate level those denominational organizations that don't conform to the fundamentals of Christianity are relegated to the cults. This is not reserved for endtimes, but has occurred for hundreds of years.

 

[Cygnus]

You have a fantastic imagination.


...And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14



JLB

First, I dislike your snide remark.
Second, your post made no sense

 

[JLB]

First, I dislike your snide remark.
Second, your post made no sense

First, it was meant to be a light hearted statement in a very sober subject.

Second, I will explain why I posted this scripture.

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

People are saved by hearing the Gospel from a preacher who was sent by God, not by opening a bible to John 3:16.



JLB

 

[JLB]

After the rapture there is no more salvation thru faith, since that which is unseen becomes seen.
Salvation after the rapture comes with a sacrifice, your head.

The Resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs just before the rapture, as those who are alive and remain are caught up together with the resurrected ones, which happens at His coming.

The antichrist is destroyed at His coming.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8



JLB

 

[markathome]

It sounds like we are making loops thru time, something doesn't fit with the
The antichrist is destroyed at His coming part.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

2 Thessalonians 2:6-9
even/then/also at this time/the present to see/to know
to hold back/detain/to possess into/for of them/he
disclose/reveal
in/by/with himself, herself, itself due measure/a measure of time
for hidden thing/secret/mystery violation of law/iniquity/wickedness be mighty in/shew forth self/to effect
now/already be mighty in/shew forth self/to effect
only/alone this moment/present to hold back/detain/to possess
until
to become/to arise/to be made out of/away from
middle/in the midst of
even/then/also then/at that time
disclose/reveal
destitute of (the Mosaic) law/lawless/wicked
disclose/reveal
who/which/what/that supreme in authority destroy/consume breath/wind/spirit
of them/he the edge of a sword/the mouth
even/then/also put an end to/inoperative an appearing/appearance
of them/he the coming/arrival/advent
who/which/what/that the coming/arrival/advent
to be down from/according to working/efficiency
adversary/Satan
in/by/with individually/collectively
miraculous power
even/then/also
a sign/mark/token (666? revelation 13:18 Revelation 14:9)
even/then/also
a lie/whatever is not what it seems to be
a prodigy or omen/miracle

future

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded (Rapture) Last Trumpet

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun (backwards time jump around 2-3 bc to present)

Revelation 13:1-18 beast and its mark (before last trumpet?)

Revelation 14:14-20 Sickle Harvest Wheat & Tares (Rapture) Back to Last Trumpet

Revelation 15-16 the seven last plagues/vials (future)

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates

The antichrist is destroyed at His coming.

??????
Revelation 16:13 three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon,
and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief (Rapture) Back to Last Trumpet

Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. (future)

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air

Revelation 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Revelation 17-18 Harlot more beast stuff, sounds like islam and Saudi Arabia (backwards time jump to 500ad to present)

 

[JLB]

It sounds like we are making loops thru time, something doesn't fit with the
The antichrist is destroyed at His coming part.

Can you acknowledge that the antichrist is destroyed by the brightness of His coming?

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


Here is how Paul starts off 2 Thessalonians 2 - same context as verse 8... The coming of the Lord.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4


The coming of the Lord is when the resurrection takes place.

The coming of the Lord is when the Rapture takes place, as the resurrection and rapture are one event, whereby the raptured ones are caught up together with the resurrected ones, who went first, and both groups are caught up together, to meet the Lord in the air.

This same coming of the Lord, that causes the resurrection and rapture, also destroys the antichrist... by the brightness of His coming.



JLB

 

[markathome]

If I write a paragraph or 2 like Paul did describing the book of revelation I would refer to the book of revelation for clarity. I wouldn't change the book of revelation to match the 2 paragraphs.

 

[JLB]

If I write a paragraph or 2 like Paul did describing the book of revelation I would refer to the book of revelation for clarity. I wouldn't change the book of revelation to match the 2 paragraphs.

Brother, we are not discussing the book of Revelation.

There is no need to discuss the symbolic imagery from the book of Revelation, if we can't understand the plain, clear, straightforward words in Paul's letter to the Thessalonians.

Do you agree that the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the rapture of the Church, are one event that happens at His coming?



JLB

 

[markathome]

Not by your wording of it.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded (First Resurrection before Rapture) Last Trumpet Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, there is no more salvation thru faith, since that which is unseen becomes seen.

This same coming of the Lord, that causes the resurrection and rapture, also destroys the antichrist... by the brightness of His coming.
[/quote]

Brightness of His Coming includes

Revelation 19:7 The marriage of the Lamb after harlot is destroyed by the KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS
Revelation 19:8-16 behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him is KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS
Revelation 19:17-18 1st Armageddon
Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Revelation 19:20 beast & the false prophet and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

*****************************************************************************
(Satan bound for a thousand years or a thousand days?)
Revelation 20:1-4 and after that he must be loosed a little season.

(First Resurrection before Rapture) Back to Last Trumpet future tense (The second death)
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years/or a thousand days?

(Satan loosed after a thousand years or a thousand days? The second death. there is no more salvation thru faith, since that which is unseen becomes seen. (The second death and 2nd Armageddon) )
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:8-9 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Satan joins his brothers in hell)
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

(New Heaven & Earth) Judgement Day
Revelation 20:15 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.(First Resurrection before Rapture)
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (The second death)
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.