Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[for_his_glory]

Or you might mean this..

so wrong!!! :biggrin

 

[for_his_glory]

First you're not even reading what I have been writing or even trying to understand it.
If so you wouldn't even be asking such a question as I have already answered it multiple times.
You are just repeating the words from a book of poetry & refusing to look any deeper.

Not understanding why all your replies are the definition of words instead of using scripture to help explain to us what you believe as we know what brightness means. Again I am confused, are you calling the Bible just a book of poetry and what are we to use to look deeper?

 

[Cygnus]

First, it was meant to be a light hearted statement in a very sober subject.

Second, I will explain why I posted this scripture.

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

People are saved by hearing the Gospel from a preacher who was sent by God, not by opening a bible to John 3:16.



JLB

back peddling....and your post still makes no sense.

Sorry.

 

[JLB]

back peddling....and your post still makes no sense.

Sorry.

Back peddling? 2

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

People are saved by hearing the Gospel from a preacher who was sent by God, not by opening a bible to John 3:16.


Try reading slowly.

 

[JLB]

First you're not even reading what I have been writing or even trying to understand it.
If so you wouldn't even be asking such a question as I have already answered it multiple times.
You are just repeating the words from a book of poetry & refusing to look any deeper.

Here I will post what you wrote, and give you an opportunity to explain what it means -

BRIGHTNESS?

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ἐπιφάνεια

ἐπιφάνεια

ἐπιφάνεια • ‎(epipháneia) f ‎(genitive ἐπιφανείας); first declension

1. appearance, manifestation (especially of a divine or royal figure)
2. visible portion, surface
3. appearance, pretense
4. fame, distinction

There is no scripture.
There is no explanation.

Looks like some kind of "definition" from the latest internet "dictionary" for post modern "re-definition" of bible words.

I honestly don't know what you are trying to say here.


Here's the next post of yours, of which you didn't bother to address the scriptures or the content, you just posted this -

Because
ἀπαύγασμα != ἐπιφάνεια

I can clearly see the difference & I'm over 1/2 blind, why can't you see the difference?

Hebrews 1:3 -brightness
Strong's Dictionary Number: 541
1 Original Word: ἀπαύγασμα
2 Word Origin: from a compound of (575) and (826)
3 Transliterated Word: apaugasma
4 TDNT/TWOT Entry: 1:508,87
5 Phonetic Spelling: ap-ow'-gas-mah
6 Part of Speech: Noun Neuter
7 Strong's Definition: from a compound of [575]575 and [826;]826; an off-flash, i.e. effulgence:--brightness.
8 Definition:

1. reflected brightness
   1. of Christ in that he perfectly reflects the majesty of God
2. effulgence
   1. shining forth, of a light coming from a luminous body (Vine)
   2. out-raying (Vincent)

9 English:
0 Usage: brightness

2Thessalonians 2:8
Strong's Dictionary Number: 2015
an appearing, appearance
number - 2015
orig_word - ἐπιφάνεια
word_orig - from (2016)
translit - epiphaneia
tdnt - 9:7,1244
phonetic - ep-if-an'-i-ah
part_of_speech - Noun Feminine
st_def - from «2016»; a manifestation, i.e. (specially) the advent of Christ (past or future):--appearing, brightness.
IPD_def -

1. an appearing, appearance

English - an appearing/appearance

Once again, do did not address the topic of the scriptures, nor anything I said, you just post another dictionary definition.


The coming of the Lord that gathers His people, is the same coming of the Lord that destroys the antichrist.

It doesn't matter what commentary you read, or if the word is brightness or appearing or manifestation, but the fact that the antichrist is destroyed at His coming, the same coming, by which His people are gathered.

The coming of the Lord results in: The gathering [resurrection/rapture] of His people and the destruction of the antichrist.

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 Thessalonians 2:1

• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

The coming of the Lord = Gathering of His people.
The coming of the Lord = Destruction of the antichrist


JLB

 

[markathome]

So what question was you asking me again?

 

[JLB]

So what question was you asking me again?

I have no question for you.

I'm simply sharing some scripture, and some relevant points, they make concerning this topic.


The coming of the Lord results in: The gathering [resurrection/rapture] of His people and the destruction of the antichrist.

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 Thessalonians 2:1

• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

The coming of the Lord = Gathering of His people.
The coming of the Lord = Destruction of the antichrist


If you would like to comment and discuss, then please do.



JLB

 

[markathome]

Well sense Revelation isn't allowed and the same verse is repeated over and over without further breakdown of it, what is there left to discuss?

 

[JLB]

Well sense Revelation isn't allowed and the same verse is repeated over and over without further breakdown of it, what is there left to discuss?

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 Thessalonians 2:1

• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

If the antichrist is destroyed by His coming and His people are gathered at His coming, then it is safe to say His coming is after the antichrist and his deception has run it's course.

Here's another nugget from 2 Thessalonians, since you appreciate Revelation 22:18, and I would suppose verse 19 as well.

And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12



JLB

 

[markathome]

If the antichrist is destroyed by His coming and His people are gathered at His coming, then it is safe to say His coming is after the antichrist and his deception has run it's course.

In the twinkling of an eye the first resurrection, the rapture, the antichrist is finally revealed & the antichrist is destroyed, it is safe to say His coming is after the antichrist and his deception has run it's course.

If it makes sense to you, so be it.

 

[turnorburn]

Back peddling? 2

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

People are saved by hearing the Gospel from a preacher who was sent by God, not by opening a bible to John 3:16.


Try reading slowly.

i don't know about that one JLB.. Paul Washer said he was with a man that was having a hard time finding Christ so he told the man he'd stay with him praying until he did... Didn't matter how long it took he'd stay with him.. The man had a bible and started reading it.. after i think it was several days Paul said the man starting yelling "That's It! That's It" as he read out loud...

John 3:116 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It was at that moment the man had eternal life...

 

[turnorburn]

God can open up the eyes of our understanding by his Holy Spirit.. Gods word is his living word... Jesus..

 

[JLB]

i don't know about that one JLB.. Paul Washer said he was with a man that was having a hard time finding Christ so he told the man he'd stay with him praying until he did... Didn't matter how long it took he'd stay with him.. The man had a bible and started reading it.. after i think it was several days Paul said the man starting yelling "That's It! That's It" as he read out loud...

John 3:116 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It was at that moment the man had eternal life...

...so he told the man he'd stay with him praying until he did...Paul said the man starting yelling "That's It! That's It"


Great testimony.



JLB

 

[JLB]

In the twinkling of an eye the first resurrection, the rapture, the antichrist is finally revealed & the antichrist is destroyed, it is safe to say His coming is after the antichrist and his deception has run it's course.

If it makes sense to you, so be it.

Those are your words, not mine.

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 Thessalonians 2:1

• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

If the antichrist is destroyed by His coming and His people are gathered at His coming, then it is safe to say His coming is after the antichrist and his deception has run it's course.


His coming is after the tribulation. After the deception of the antichrist has run it's course.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:29-30



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

In the twinkling of an eye the first resurrection, the rapture, the antichrist is finally revealed & the antichrist is destroyed, it is safe to say His coming is after the antichrist and his deception has run it's course.

If it makes sense to you, so be it.

The brightness of His glory in 2Thessalonians 2:8 means the brightness of Christ Jesus in all His glory like that of God in Exodus 33:18-23 and Revelation 21:23. At the last trumpet sounding, meaning during the time of the seventh trumpet, Jesus comes down from the third heaven where God sits on His throne to the first heaven meaning air that is the earth's atmosphere, Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, Lamentations 4:19. The dead in Christ will rise first and then we who are still alive who are in Christ will gather with them in the clouds as we are given our new glorified bodies to meet the glory of His brightness in the air as then we will always be with Jesus and we will be like Him in all His glory, 1Corinthians 15:52-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1John 3:2.

We are then joined with Christ at the marriage supper of the Lamb and return with Him as His army that are clothed in fine linen, clean and white when He plants His feet on the mount of Olives, Rev 19. Only with His words that cuts like a sharp sword will Jesus destroy that wicked one being the beast out of the earth, Rev 13:11-18, who is the son of perdition being the false prophet, 2Thessalonians 2:3, who has gone out to deceive the nations with the power of Satan, Rev 13:1-10. The false prophet who gets his power from Satan will show great signs and lying wonders that will deceive even the elect if possible, Matthew 24:24. God sends those who refuse to repent strong delusion that they should believe a lie as many will take the mark of this beast and bow down to him thinking he is Christ, Matthew 24:24, while those who are in Christ will be persecuted even to death for not taking the mark of this beast and bow down to him, 2Thessalonians 2:7-12.

During all of this that happens between Rev 13-20 we are kept by Jesus as we are ever more with Him, 1Thessalonians 4:17, that Satan can no longer pluck us out of His hands, John 10:29. The beast and the false prophet are cast down to the lake of fire while Satan is bound for a time and then let loose for awhile to make war against Jesus and the saints of God with Him, but is soon devoured by fire that God sends down and Satan is now cast into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet. God at this time restores the heaven and earth and ushers down the new Jerusalem from heaven and there we are with the Lord for eternity.

 

[markathome]

It's only one more word to change to complete it, maybe it was also translated wrong or it just feels good to the ears to add it?

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the vial of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last vial: for the vial shall poured, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[markathome]

The brightness of His glory in 2Thessalonians 2:8 means the brightness of Christ Jesus in all His glory like that of God in Exodus 33:18-23 and Revelation 21:23.

Brother, we are not discussing the book of Revelation.

There is no need to discuss the symbolic imagery from the book of Revelation, if we can't understand the plain, clear, straightforward words in Paul's letter to the Thessalonians.

We are not allowed to use revelation.

 

[for_his_glory]

We are not allowed to use revelation.

What!!!.............my whole OP is about Revelations..................who said we are not allowed to use Revelations?

 

[for_his_glory]

It's only one more word to change to complete it, maybe it was also translated wrong or it just feels good to the ears to add it?

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the vial of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last vial: for the vial shall poured, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Who is changing any words, but only giving explanation to the word brightness for example that is already written in Gods word? Why are you replacing trumpet with the word vial? I would think that falls in the line of adding to or taking away from the word of God we are warned about in Rev 22:18,19

 

[for_his_glory]

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