Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[markathome]

Last was post-trib.

So is pre-trib more correct?

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the seal of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the first seal: for the seal shall opened, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[for_his_glory]

Last was post-trib.

So is pre-trib more correct?

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the seal of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the first seal: for the seal shall opened, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Is this stemming from the word brightness that is literally written in 2Thessalonians 2:8? I am confused by you adding the word vial and seal where it is not literally written in those scriptures you posted. Please explain this to me.

 

[Cygnus]

Back peddling? 2

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

People are saved by hearing the Gospel from a preacher who was sent by God, not by opening a bible to John 3:16.


Try reading slowly.

I read what you said..real slow....and I say HOG WASH.

What you are saying is that someone can't open a bible...read it...believe it..and get saved...unless a preacher preached it.

Once again you show what a scripture twister does.

 

[reba]

getting personal guys

 

[Corn Pop]

Last was post-trib.

So is pre-trib more correct?

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the seal of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the first seal: for the seal shall opened, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

You say the first seal but the bible says the last trump.

 

[markathome]

POST-TRIB​

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the vial of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last vial: for the vial shall poured, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

PRE-TRIB​

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the seal of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the first seal: for the seal shall opened, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

And the original
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
is Mid-Trib?

 

[JLB]

I read what you said..real slow....and I say HOG WASH.

What you are saying is that someone can't open a bible...read it...believe it..and get saved...unless a preacher preached it.

Once again you show what a scripture twister does.

I posted what Paul plainly wrote in scripture.

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

People are saved by hearing the Gospel from a preacher who was sent by God, not by opening a bible to John 3:16.

Is there an exception? God can do anything

The rapture and resurrection come after the tribulation, [Matthew 24:29-31], at His coming, as all of His people will be here on earth, with many preaching the Gospel and being a witness with there lives, as they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

That's the point I made, and comes straight from the scriptures, that how shall they hear without a preacher, however we know that God can lead someone to salvation by opening a bible, as the evangelist Paul Washer did, and as the evangelist Phillip did, but that doesn't mean no one had never preached the Gospel to them before.

In both cases the person was accompanied by another person [evangelist] leading them to salvation.


JLB

 

[JLB]

POST-TRIB​

PRE-TRIB​

And the original
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
is Mid-Trib?

His Coming is the Day of the Lord, or Day of Christ, that happens after the tribulation, in which the resurrection and rapture [Gathering] will occur and the antichrist will be destroyed, by the same coming of the Lord.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

POST-TRIB​

PRE-TRIB​

And the original 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 is Mid-Trib?

What you and many might not realize is that when the last trump being the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 sounds this entails everything from mystery Babylon being revealed, the mark of the beast, Jesus returning for His Bride, the seven vial judgments on those who refuse to repent as they are then cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and the false prophet and then the new Jerusalem is ushered down, Rev Chapter 12-22.

 

[markathome]

Well it makes sense now, good luck with it.

 

[Cygnus]

I posted what Paul plainly wrote in scripture.

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

People are saved by hearing the Gospel from a preacher who was sent by God, not by opening a bible to John 3:16.

Is there an exception? God can do anything

The rapture and resurrection come after the tribulation, [Matthew 24:29-31], at His coming, as all of His people will be here on earth, with many preaching the Gospel and being a witness with there lives, as they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

That's the point I made, and comes straight from the scriptures, that how shall they hear without a preacher, however we know that God can lead someone to salvation by opening a bible, as the evangelist Paul Washer did, and as the evangelist Phillip did, but that doesn't mean no one had never preached the Gospel to them before.

In both cases the person was accompanied by another person [evangelist] leading them to salvation.


JLB

So, JLB seems to be serious when he clams you can't open a bible read it...and get saved.
I've been finding it kinda hard to take JLB serious.

 

[reba]

@ JLB said People are saved by hearing the Gospel from a preacher who was sent by God, not by opening a bible to John 3:16.

Really JLB? isnt it possible that John could be the preachers sent?

 

[Cygnus]

@ JLB said People are saved by hearing the Gospel from a preacher who was sent by God, not by opening a bible to John 3:16.

Really JLB? isnt it possible that John could be the preachers sent?

There are countless stories of people who have opened a Gideon bible in a hotel room...and got saved.

 

[Corn Pop]

I only had false teachers until I opened the bible myself. Not saying I dont need a real church teacher, but the Apostles got me away from the major deception I was following. That was to prosper and exalt myself, not repent and humble myself.

 

[JLB]

@ JLB said People are saved by hearing the Gospel from a preacher who was sent by God, not by opening a bible to John 3:16.

Really JLB? isnt it possible that John could be the preachers sent?

First of all, nothing is impossible with God.

He can do whatever He wants.

However, we are discussing what the scripture says.

Here is what the scripture says.

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17

My statement came from this discussion:

ForHisglory
How could they accept Jesus if a pretrib would occur? There would be none left to preach the gospel to those who would finally have ears to hear.

There could be the guy who says....What just happened is what Joe talked about....look here's his bible, lets check it out....and opening up John 3:16, they get saved.

His basic premise was to assume that everybody during the tribulation could open their bible to John 3:16 and be saved, since all the Church was raptured before the tribulation, and their was nobody on earth to preach the Gospel.

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?


JLB

 

[markathome]

We need these 2 Revelation 11:3 preachers in this day & age!

 

[Cygnus]

His basic premise was to assume that everybody during the tribulation could open their bible to John 3:16 and be saved, since all the Church was raptured before the tribulation, and their was nobody on earth to preach the Gospel.

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?


JLB

And that for the most part would be true. During the tribulation it will be possible for someone to read the bible..BELIEVE IT and get saved.
JLB claims it can't happen.

Sorry JLB....give it a rest now.

 

[reba]

First of all, nothing is impossible with God.

He can do whatever He wants.

However, we are discussing what the scripture says.

Here is what the scripture says.

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17

My statement came from this discussion:







His basic premise was to assume that everybody during the tribulation could open their bible to John 3:16 and be saved, since all the Church was raptured before the tribulation, and their was nobody on earth to preach the Gospel.

And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?


JLB

I wonder what kind of hearing that is... Are you saying a deaf person can be saved? is that word hearing like we say to our kids when we want them to listen DID YOU HEAR ME? as in PAY ATTENTION Can not a person read the scripture aloud and hear it...
You choose to read that verse literally yet you believe Jesus did not literally mean 'this generation' .

What youi are saying is no one can be saved by reading the written Word... They way did God bother to have the Scriptures written?

Maybe it is the bolded part of the word 'hear"
G191
ἀκούω
akouō
ak-oo'-o
A primary verb; to hear (in various senses): - give (in the) audience (of), come (to the ears), ([shall]) hear (-er, -ken), be noised, be reported, understand.

 

[JLB]

I wonder what kind of hearing that is... Are you saying a deaf person can be saved?

Just the opposite, I think many who can hear just fine with natural ears, don't get saved because they don't have ears to hear.

You choose to read that verse literally yet you believe Jesus did not literally mean 'this generation' .

This may be a better question asked in the Preterist thread.

What youi are saying is no one can be saved by reading the written Word...

I'm sorry that's the message you got from my post.

Maybe it is the bolded part of the word 'hear"
G191
ἀκούω
akouō
ak-oo'-o
A primary verb; to hear (in various senses): - give (in the) audience (of), come (to the ears), ([shall]) hear (-er, -ken), be noised, be reported, understand.

The word does say faith comes by hearing....

Here's an example -

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


What scripture do you suppose Noah read that caused him to have faith, so that he moved with godly fear?



JLB

 

[JLB]

And that for the most part would be true. During the tribulation it will be possible for someone to read the bible..BELIEVE IT and get saved.
JLB claims it can't happen.

Sorry JLB....give it a rest now.

I claim it won't happen because the Church will be here on earth during the tribulation, as the rapture comes after the tribulation, at His coming.

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27

His coming is after the tribulation.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

The rapture/resurrection happens at the coming of the Lord.


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you...
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1,8

The same coming of the Lord to Gather His church is the same coming that destroys the antichrist.


JLB