Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[Sinthesis]

I think 70 to 85 million killed in WW2 and and another 16 million in WW1 plus some more millions in all the wars in between, before and after and not counting the millions disabled qualifies as great tribulation.

Look up 'Spanish Flu' for a forgotten great tribulation.

 

[Jim Parker]

Look up 'Spanish Flu' for a forgotten great tribulation.

That would be part of the great tribulation of the 20th century which continues into the 21st.

Oooh! Can we call it (Spanish flu shhhh)"? We don't want to offend the Spanish people! Look how quickly we changed the "Mexican Swine flu" to a bunch of letters and numbers so we wouldn't offend any of the swine being raised in Mexico.

 

[Sinthesis]

Spanish flu sounds exotic,,, like Zika!

 

[Jim Parker]

Spanish flu sounds exotic,,, like Zika!

Lemme get my maracas!

 

[turnorburn]

Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

His Elect are still here during the tribulation...

 

[Jim Parker]

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

That sounds just like:
1Th 4:15-17 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

His Elect are still here during the tribulation...

Looks like it to me.

iakov the fool

 

[jasonc]

Lemme get my maracas!

Spanish flu sounds exotic,,, like Zika!

How about european-native American influenza virus?

 

[Jim Parker]

How about european-native American influenza virus?

We could give it a driver's license and let it vote!

 

[jasonc]

We could give it a driver's license and let it vote!

Lol.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus rejected by his own people- "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted." Isaiah 53: 3,4............................

"He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not." John 1: 10.11............................

God turns to the Gentiles - "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."Romans 11: 25..........................

"But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by [them that are] no people, [and] by a foolish nation I will anger you." Romans 10: 19.............................

"Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles." Acts 13: 46....................




God turns His attention back to the Jews - "For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?" Romans 11: 15.....................

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. "Romans 11: 26.............................

"Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel." Revelation 7: 3,4............................

And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. " Zechariah 12: 9-11.............................

They are many, many more verses I could quote, but these verses hit the nail right on the head regarding
what God has said about what would happen in the end times. So why all this attention to a week that hasn't even
happened yet ? Because if you fail to grasp this "missing" or paused week, then every conclusion you come to after that
will by necessity be off base. Gabriel was telling Daniel very clearly that there would be 3 divisions of time within the 70 weeks,
or 490 years. Paul, in Romans 11: 25, gives us a great clue. He says that the "blindness" of Israel, or the "paused week" would
not end until all the gentiles whom God would have to be saved were saved, or "come in" as he puts it. And that it would
be after this "time of the gentiles" that God would restart the time-clock on the last week. So the times of the gentiles happen during the as yet undetermined period of time that Daniel's 70th week is paused. So far this time period has lasted roughly 2,000 years, but is about to come to an end. What will end the "times of the gentiles" is the Rapture.

There is a time period for the Jews, and for the Gentiles, but they are not the same

Shortly after Jesus went to the cross, and before the New Testament was finished, the event known as the Great Dispersion
happened in Israel, when the Romans set fire to Jerusalem and drove the Jews out to live in the "four corners of the earth."
This occured in the year 70 AD. And all during this time, the period known as the 'time of the gentiles' is taking place, with
the Jews in exile. But Jesus, when asked by His disciples in Matthew 24 about the time of the end days, gave a
prophecy of a time in the future when Israel would be restored as a nation, and the true End Times would begin -

"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. Verily I say unto you, this generation will not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" Matthew 24: 32-34

Jesus was saying that when you would see Israel regathered, an event prophesied in dozens of places in the Bible, then you
would know that that generation would not pass off the scene until all the things He talked about in Matthew 24 were fufilled.
The end times could not of started before 1948, the year that Israel officially became a nation.

Amen, even so, Come Lord Come.

P.S. I didn't mean to go that Long, sorry, but no one can say I am not through.....2

First there is no scripture that speaks of a Antichrist, but says there are many, 1John 2:18,19. It's man that made it to be just one by misinterpreting scripture and have always tried to figure out who he will be.

God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah that are of the generations of Jacob/Israel God will continue to cut them off. Not all of Israel are Gods people, but only those who are faithful to Him.

 

[JLB]

Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

His Elect are still here during the tribulation...

That sounds just like:
1Th 4:15-17 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Looks like it to me.

iakov the fool

 

[Rondmon]

First there is no scripture that speaks of a Antichrist, but says there are many, 1John 2:18,19. It's man that made it to be just one by misinterpreting scripture and have always tried to figure out who he will be.

God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah that are of the generations of Jacob/Israel God will continue to cut them off. Not all of Israel are Gods people, but only those who are faithful to Him.

That is because you want to look "only" at the word Anti-Christ. There is "ONE ANTICHRIST" as understood by scriptures, upon what we as Christians are referring to. We Christians have brought under one umbrella, all the names of "This Man" and refer to him as the Anti-Christ, a name is nothing but a name. No where in the bible is the Trinity used, but we Christians understand that God the Father, God the Son and God the Comforter are one and the same or 3 in 1 or the Trinity.

There is "One Man" referred to throughout scriptures, by different names, I am sure if the prophets and disciples would have been allowed to give his Real Name, they all would have said the same name, but God wants that to be a secret, and instead decided to allow only descriptions of who this man will be and his likeness.

Man of Sin, Little Horn, Man of Lawlessness, Man of Perdition, Beast that comes out of the Sea, the Assyrian etc. etc.These are all speaking of this One Man, that all Christians have come to know as "The Anti-Christ". I have zero problem with this moniker. For this Beast with be Anti Christian, and will try to sell himself as the savior of all man kind, and will conquer the earth and kill many.

 

[for_his_glory]

1John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. 13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. 14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. 15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Not Antichrist with a capital "A", but antichrist with a little "a". The first one being Satan and then all those he works through to deceive the nations until the end of days when Satan, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire.

Vs. 13 is speaking about Satan (antichrist) as he has been the wicked one from the beginning.

Vs. 14 is speaking about God who has always been from the beginning and His word abides in us that we have overcome the wicked one being Satan (antichrist).

Vs. 16 the world is antichrist for Satan is the prince of the power of the air and rules his wickedness over the world.

Vs. 18 Satan was the first antichrist and throughout prophecy in the OT we have been told by the Prophets that antichrist (beast out of the sea, beast out of the earth, son of perdition who is the false prophet) will come and even now there are many antichrist (those who Satan works through) as they are those who have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, 2Timothy 3:1-9; Matthew 7:21-23.

Vs. 22 They who deny the Father and the Son are antichrist as they are lovers of self and love those things of the world as they are worldly making their own idols that become their gods, 2Timothy 3:1-5.

 

[Sinthesis]

That is because you want to look "only" at the word Anti-Christ. There is "ONE ANTICHRIST" as understood by scriptures, upon what we as Christians are referring to. We Christians have brought under one umbrella, all the names of "This Man" and refer to him as the Anti-Christ, a name is nothing but a name. No where in the bible is the Trinity used, but we Christians understand that God the Father, God the Son and God the Comforter are one and the same or 3 in 1 or the Trinity.

There is "One Man" referred to throughout scriptures, by different names, I am sure if the prophets and disciples would have been allowed to give his Real Name, they all would have said the same name, but God wants that to be a secret, and instead decided to allow only descriptions of who this man will be and his likeness.

Man of Sin, Little Horn, Man of Lawlessness, Man of Perdition, Beast that comes out of the Sea, the Assyrian etc. etc.These are all speaking of this One Man, that all Christians have come to know as "The Anti-Christ". I have zero problem with this moniker. For this Beast with be Anti Christian, and will try to sell himself as the savior of all man kind, and will conquer the earth and kill many.

That is an interpretation you have chosen to accept, but it is not the only way your fellow Christians understand the biblical idea of antichrist.

 

[for_his_glory]

The book of Revelation is symbolic, but it is not hard to understand like most people think, nor was it meant to be hard to understand. I have written a Seven part series on Revelation, only finished five parts though. For instance John uses references to the Old Testament in 278 of the 404 verses, so the key to understanding the book of Revelation is interpreting what these Old Testament passages mean. For example, many people think the Woman in Revelation 12 is the Church, many say she is Israel, but what does the Old Testament say ? That after all is the Key. So John described the Woman as being clothed in the Sun, Moon and 12 Stars in Rev. 12. So by studying Genesis we see that Joseph had a dream that the Sun, Moon and 11 Stars (he being the 12th Star no doubt) would pay obeisance unto him. So by reading and studying, we understand that the Woman, is no doubt Israel. not the Church.

In my study of Revelation, I found that Revelation 19 is happening at the same time as the Seal Judgments, Trump Judgments and Vial Judgments of Rev. Chapters 6-16, so the Rapture happens as soon as the Beast/Fake Christ comes to power, Rev. 6:1, before he turns his evil powers onto the world, then the Judgments come, while the Church is in Heaven marrying the Lamb. The book of Revelation is not in Chronological order, neither can it be, because the Marriage Feast as described in Revelation happens over a Seven year period, as does the Anti-Christ coming on the World Scene, then the 3 1/2 years of Judgments on the world (Seal/Trumps/Vials) that is the Lambs Wrath Rev. 6:16 and Gods Wrath.

I agree with you, the Rapture is before the Second coming. And I agree that Revelation is not that hard to understand, we have over-complicated it and made it seem to be a mysterious book that is not understandable, but it is, through study, understandable.

Going to get a bite to eat, God Bless brother.

Praying you are feeling better and well rested

Rev 19 is when Christ returns for His bride as it is we who are clothed in fine linen, white and clean and being the army that returns with Him as He plants His feet on the mount of Olives and makes an end to all abominations that have caused desolation as at that time the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire and then Satan is finally defeated and cast into the Lake of fire.

The seven seals, seven trumpets and seven vial judgments are not all at once but all done in a short period of Gods timing. Back in Rev 6:1-17 the first six seals are opened. In chapter 8 the seventh seal is opened which ushers in the seven trumpet judgements for now Gods great wrath begins. The seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 includes everything from Rev 11:15 - Rev 18. This includes the seven vial judgments, Mystery Babylon being revealed and her destruction and the second coming of Christ for His Bride as she has prepared herself to sit at the marriage supper of the Lamb in Rev 19.

I Thessalonians 4:13-18 never says we are caught up to heaven as no man has ever ascended into heaven, but Christ only, John 3:13. It says the dead are resurrected first and we who are alive are caught up together to the clouds to meet Jesus in the air. This is the second coming of Christ that He descends down from heaven to the air (first heaven that is atmosphere) where we meet Him and are then forever with Him as Jesus continues down to earth and plants His feet on the mount of Olives and makes an end to all abominations that have caused desolation as the beast, the false prophet and Satan are cast into the lake of fire forever.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I read what you said..real slow....and I say HOG WASH.

What you are saying is that someone can't open a bible...read it...believe it..and get saved...unless a preacher preached it.

Once again you show what a scripture twister does.

Amen, The word of God is Living and powerful......(Heb. 4:12) It was the word of God that led me, and the Holy Spirit that accompanied me to the Alter. Even if a false pastor / teacher, if he speaks the word of God from Scripture, it will save that man by hearing. (Rom. 10:14-17)

 

[for_his_glory]

God decreed a judgment unto Israel via Daniel, it was in 3 sections, the 2nd and 3rd sections divided by at least 2000 years, well, close to 2000 years anyway. It is the 70 weeks judgment upon Israel. 7 Weeks, 62 weeks and the last week separated by about 2000 years. Now lets go back unto Daniels time, or even Jesus' time, would anyone have thought that a Decreed Judgment from God would be at two different points in time ? Separated by 2000 years ? Probably not, but God is not subject to time, and probably does not even recognize it in His doings.

We humans probably overemphasize certain words. For instance, the "First Resurrection", can it not be all the Dead in Christ over a Seven year period ? The Dead in Christ rise First, then we who are alive and remain meet Christ in the air, to forever be with the Lord, we understand in Revelation 19 that we marry he Lamb in Heaven then come back to earth with Jesus on white horses, so this chapter tells us we do not meet Jesus in the Sky, come straight back to earth and do battle with the Beast/Kings/their Armies. So what gives ?

Well, if we read Rev. 6, the 5th seal is the Martyrs under the Alter, who died for Jesus, no doubt during the Tribulation because they are in the midst of the Seal Judgments. These are people who became Christians after the rapture, who will not take the Mark of the Beast, but would rather lay down their life for Christ Jesus so they can gain Heaven, of course.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on THEM THAT DWELL ON EARTH ? {{ Notice those souls under the alter, want God to avenge their deaths on WHO ? On Those that dwell on Earth [present tense] so everyone of these souls died during the Great Tribulation period Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24. But they were Given White Robes and told to wait until all has been fulfilled. ( Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.) Now let us think this through logically, if everyone was Resurrected after ALL HAD BEEN FULFILLED, there is no way anyone could be with Jesus in Heaven, then COME BACK to earth on White Horses, with Jesus, and then do Battle with the Beast, his Kings and their Armies as Revelation 19:19-20 shows us, SEE BELOW !! That is IF those under the Alter, the 5th Seal......... were the Dead in Christ Jesus in Sum Total of all 2000 years, but alas, they are not the Sum Total, but only those that died during the Great Tribulation, where the Anti-Christ murders and God Judges the Nations. They were given their White Robes and told to wait until all was fulfilled.

The Raptured Saints were given their White Robes in Heaven at the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of MUCH PEOPLE IN HEAVEN, saying,................. Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the Marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (Church) hath made herself ready. 19:8 And to her (Church/Saints) was granted that she should be arrayed in FINE LINEN, Clean and White: for the FINE LINEN IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE SAINTS !! }}

Rev.19:19 And I saw the Beast, and the Kings of the earth, and Their Armies, gathered together to MAKE WAR against Him (Jesus) that sat on the horse, and against HIS ARMY. (Saints) 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So, the First Resurrection is the resurrection of all the dead in Christ Jesus, those in the graves, those still living when Jesus calls us to the Marriage Supper, who are separated unto God, and filled with His Holy Spirit, and those who then refuse the Mark of the Beast, die for Christ Jesus during the Tribulation, and thus are also separated unto God via Christ Jesus blood. They are then also resurrected from the dead after the Tribulation/Judgments of God on Earth have been fulfilled. The separation of 7 years is not something that can restrain or bother God, as shown with the 70 weeks decree, God is not restrained by periods of time.We look at things that way, but God doesn't always see things as we do, imho, the First Resurrection is all those people who are under the Blood of Jesus during any part of a 7 year period called the Great Tribulation.

God Bless.....

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Those souls under the alter are not physical martyr's for their bodies still remain in the grave. It's their soul/spirit that are crying out for vengeance, but are told to wait awhile until their fellowservants (those who will die a martyr's death during the timing of Gods great wrath as they die by the hands of their enemies) and their brethren (those who are still alive at Christ coming). This will only be fulfilled on the day of Christ second coming at the end of Gods great wrath (tribulation) on those who refuse to repent and turn back to Him.

Jesus has never returned for anyone after His ascending to sit at the right hand of the Father being our mediator before God, John 3:13. The resurrection of the dead has not happened yet as it is only that breath/soul/spirit that God gave us that returns back to Him when this physical body returns to the dust of the ground from where it came from, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. No one is resurrected until the one and only return of Christ who calls His Bride to meet Him in the air and then forever we will be with Him in all of Gods glory.

 

[for_his_glory]

You have that part in bold, yet its says, Christ the First Fruits, AFTERWARDS those who are Christ's at his coming. Like I said, the Old English, does things backwards and awkward. But each one in his order, Christ the First Fruits, AFTERWARDS those who are Christs at his coming. No where does the scriptures say the Dead stay dead until Christ returns. In fact scriptures say different, as I pointed out, thus the scriptures can not be ignored. Jesus told the thief, today you will be with me in paradise. And in the Verses I cited earlier, Matthew 27:51-52, the Saints came forth from the Grave when Jesus died.

So we have Matthew telling us Saints left the Grave when Jesus died, and Jesus telling us the thief beside him on the cross would be with him in paradise that very day. So unless Jesus and Matthew are fibbing, the Dead in Christ go straight to Heaven, and thus the Dead in Christ rise first (THIS IS TRUE) and those of us who remain shall be caught up to be with them, at a FUTURE TIME.

Also scriptures testify to TWO RESURRECTIONS. One a 1000 years later. I am just going by scriptures on both accounts. Nowhere does it say that the Dad in Christ and those that Remain are traveling at the Same time, one is just called FIRST.

Christ is the first fruits as being the only begotten Son of the Father that died and God rose Him from the grave. He alone is the only one who has ever been raised to an immortal life given a new glorified body then ascended to sit at the right hand of God. When the ground shook and the graves were opened they were resurrected back to a mortal life, not immortal, and walked the streets of Jerusalem speaking to their friends and family.

Matthew is the only one that mentions this, but yet silent on why they were raised from their graves. A possiblity could be that God allowed them to be risen as a witness to others that Jesus truly was the Messiah just as the Centurian also believed when the earth quaked and he saw the graves open. There have been many in scripture that have been raised from the dead, but as John 3:13 says no one has ever gone up to heaven other than Jesus and those who were raised continued to live out their mortal lives on earth until they died again.

This is a list of many that have been raised from the dead and have since died and lay in their graves until the coming of the Lord as then the mortal will have put on the immortal and given new glorified bodies to be with the Lord forever.

1Kings 17:17-24 the widow of Zarephath son was raised Elijah
II Kings 4:20-37 Shunamite's son raised by Elisha
II Kings 13:21 Man tossed into Elisha's tomb raised by God's Spirit
Luke 7:11-16 Widow of Nain's son raised by Jesus
Mark 5:35-43 Synagogue ruler Jairus 12 year old daughter raised by Jesus
John 11:1-44 Lazarus raised by Jesus
Acts 9:36-41 Tabitha also known as Dorcas raised by Peter
Acts 20:7-12 Eutychus raised by Paul

BTW, Jesus promised the thief he would be with Him in paradise that day meaning when Jesus returns for His Bride, Rev 19, then the thief like all of us will be part of the gathering of the first resurrection for the second resurrection has no power and they will be cast into the lake of fire for their names are not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life, Rev 20:6-15.

 

[for_his_glory]

The 20th century was a century of constant warfare including 2 world wars and the spreading of communism by means of revolutionary wars. The 21st century has begun with the spread of Islam by "Holy War."
We have invented nuclear weapons, chemical weapons and biological weapons.
We are polluting our water and making our food inedible by genetic manipulation.
So how much more "tribulational" could it get?

During the time of Gods final great wrath (tribulation) that has never been seen on such a national scale before and never will be seen again, Matthew 24:21, that will fall on those who have rejected Jesus we will see much of the earth's resources being destroyed by God as His punishment goes forth throughout the nations. We who are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30, will trust God in knowing He will provide for us what we need, Philippians 4:19 to sustain us at this time. We will see the suffering of family members and friends that refuse to repent and turn back to Gods grace as they take the mark of the beast that will seal their fate as God's wrath falls on them. Right now we are in the beginning of sorrows as we can see those things escalating in the world that will be full blown when the first trumpet is sounded. We have only a taste of things that are about to be fulfilled during the tribulations of Gods great wrath as the time of His longsuffering and patience is wearing thin.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

Hi all. In Matthew 24 Jesus says a lot about the last days. In verse 15 he talks about the "abomination of Desolation". It's not exactly clear what that is, but I think it's relevant to this thread in that it seems to mark the start of the Great Tribulation. He follows on saying that people should flee, be prepared to hide, and that they will be taken care of by God in the "wilderness" (compare Matthew 24:28 and Revelation 12:14) for a period of 3.5 years.

Then he describes a situation which sounds like panic. All this trouble starts, and false prophets come along saying that Jesus has returned secretly in the "secret chambers" or "out in the desert" and that we should not listen to them because his return will be visible and undeniable. It won't be secret. It sounds very much like a situation where people had expected him to return before the troubles started, and when he doesn't, they panic and create alternative theories about a secret appearance rather than just accept that they were wrong about the timing.

He then goes on to say, "immediately after the tribulation of those days" is when he will return. When I read the context of the bigger picture, about how all Christians will suffer persecution, and how the saints overcome the Beast by "not loving their lives even unto death" and how we should not fear what people can do to the body, and how we are meant to be a light to the world despite persecutions and afflictions, it just makes no sense that God would remove his witnesses when the world will need them the most.