Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[Rondmon]

Your through.



JLB

I read most of your posts in the Abomination of Desolation thread and you were spot on, except for the one about the Rapture coming at the Second Coming............ I made the point about the tribulation having to be the worst tribulation ever, only to find out you had already made that point. Time for my nap, had a heart attack about a month ago, need my rest, God Blss

 

[turnorburn]

Great tribulation is all around us.. have we so soon forgotten what's going on at Fukushima? They can't stop the never ending release of radiation into our atmosphere..

http://enenews.com/reporter-many-ex...feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ENENews+(Energy+News)

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

[markathome]

Paul wrote a letter to the Thessalonians which appears to be taken out of context and repeated over & over to promote a Post Trib narrative that is the basics for the end times on this forum.
I went thru and posted most of Revelation trying to match up what was being taught on here to what was in the Bible itself.
Was then told not to use Revelation because it was just symbolic.
That translates to Revelation doesn't match the lies the person is promoting.
2 Timothy 2:23-26

For there to be an acknowledgement of the truth there first has to be a Spirit of Truth present.

 

[JLB]

I read most of your posts in the Abomination of Desolation thread and you were spot on, except for the one about the Rapture coming at the Second Coming............

Ok, fair enough. Take a look at this scripture, and see what you think, after you come back to the thread.

And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

The resurrection occurs before the rapture, in which just after the resurrection, those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.

...caught up together with them, is very clear.

The Resurrection/rapture is one event, that happens at His coming.


JLB

 

[Rondmon]

Paul wrote a letter to the Thessalonians which appears to be taken out of context and repeated over & over to promote a Post Trib narrative that is the basics for the end times on this forum.
I went thru and posted most of Revelation trying to match up what was being taught on here to what was in the Bible itself.
Was then told not to use Revelation because it was just symbolic.
That translates to Revelation doesn't match the lies the person is promoting.
2 Timothy 2:23-26

For there to be an acknowledgement of the truth there first has to be a Spirit of Truth present.

The book of Revelation is symbolic, but it is not hard to understand like most people think, nor was it meant to be hard to understand. I have written a Seven part series on Revelation, only finished five parts though. For instance John uses references to the Old Testament in 278 of the 404 verses, so the key to understanding the book of Revelation is interpreting what these Old Testament passages mean. For example, many people think the Woman in Revelation 12 is the Church, many say she is Israel, but what does the Old Testament say ? That after all is the Key. So John described the Woman as being clothed in the Sun, Moon and 12 Stars in Rev. 12. So by studying Genesis we see that Joseph had a dream that the Sun, Moon and 11 Stars (he being the 12th Star no doubt) would pay obeisance unto him. So by reading and studying, we understand that the Woman, is no doubt Israel. not the Church.

In my study of Revelation, I found that Revelation 19 is happening at the same time as the Seal Judgments, Trump Judgments and Vial Judgments of Rev. Chapters 6-16, so the Rapture happens as soon as the Beast/Fake Christ comes to power, Rev. 6:1, before he turns his evil powers onto the world, then the Judgments come, while the Church is in Heaven marrying the Lamb. The book of Revelation is not in Chronological order, neither can it be, because the Marriage Feast as described in Revelation happens over a Seven year period, as does the Anti-Christ coming on the World Scene, then the 3 1/2 years of Judgments on the world (Seal/Trumps/Vials) that is the Lambs Wrath Rev. 6:16 and Gods Wrath.

I agree with you, the Rapture is before the Second coming. And I agree that Revelation is not that hard to understand, we have over-complicated it and made it seem to be a mysterious book that is not understandable, but it is, through study, understandable.

Going to get a bite to eat, God Bless brother.

 

[turnorburn]

When i look at Fukushima i see this taking place...

Revelation 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.


Nuclear Engineer: I agree Fukushima can be "extinction event" It’s a myth that disaster is being contained.

Nuclear Expert: Radioactive material has contaminated much of the Pacific Coast of North America.. Negative impacts of the accident have spread throughout the world

http://enenews.com/nuclear-engineer...-negative-impacts-accident-spread-world-video

The discovery of nuclear energy brought us to..

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Rondmon]

Ok, fair enough. Take a look at this scripture, and see what you think, after you come back to the thread.

And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

The resurrection occurs before the rapture, in which just after the resurrection, those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.

...caught up together with them, is very clear.

The Resurrection/rapture is one event, that happens at His coming.


JLB

God decreed a judgment unto Israel via Daniel, it was in 3 sections, the 2nd and 3rd sections divided by at least 2000 years, well, close to 2000 years anyway. It is the 70 weeks judgment upon Israel. 7 Weeks, 62 weeks and the last week separated by about 2000 years. Now lets go back unto Daniels time, or even Jesus' time, would anyone have thought that a Decreed Judgment from God would be at two different points in time ? Separated by 2000 years ? Probably not, but God is not subject to time, and probably does not even recognize it in His doings.

We humans probably overemphasize certain words. For instance, the "First Resurrection", can it not be all the Dead in Christ over a Seven year period ? The Dead in Christ rise First, then we who are alive and remain meet Christ in the air, to forever be with the Lord, we understand in Revelation 19 that we marry he Lamb in Heaven then come back to earth with Jesus on white horses, so this chapter tells us we do not meet Jesus in the Sky, come straight back to earth and do battle with the Beast/Kings/their Armies. So what gives ?

Well, if we read Rev. 6, the 5th seal is the Martyrs under the Alter, who died for Jesus, no doubt during the Tribulation because they are in the midst of the Seal Judgments. These are people who became Christians after the rapture, who will not take the Mark of the Beast, but would rather lay down their life for Christ Jesus so they can gain Heaven, of course.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on THEM THAT DWELL ON EARTH ? {{ Notice those souls under the alter, want God to avenge their deaths on WHO ? On Those that dwell on Earth [present tense] so everyone of these souls died during the Great Tribulation period Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24. But they were Given White Robes and told to wait until all has been fulfilled. ( Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.) Now let us think this through logically, if everyone was Resurrected after ALL HAD BEEN FULFILLED, there is no way anyone could be with Jesus in Heaven, then COME BACK to earth on White Horses, with Jesus, and then do Battle with the Beast, his Kings and their Armies as Revelation 19:19-20 shows us, SEE BELOW !! That is IF those under the Alter, the 5th Seal......... were the Dead in Christ Jesus in Sum Total of all 2000 years, but alas, they are not the Sum Total, but only those that died during the Great Tribulation, where the Anti-Christ murders and God Judges the Nations. They were given their White Robes and told to wait until all was fulfilled.

The Raptured Saints were given their White Robes in Heaven at the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of MUCH PEOPLE IN HEAVEN, saying,................. Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the Marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (Church) hath made herself ready. 19:8 And to her (Church/Saints) was granted that she should be arrayed in FINE LINEN, Clean and White: for the FINE LINEN IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE SAINTS !! }}

Rev.19:19 And I saw the Beast, and the Kings of the earth, and Their Armies, gathered together to MAKE WAR against Him (Jesus) that sat on the horse, and against HIS ARMY. (Saints) 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So, the First Resurrection is the resurrection of all the dead in Christ Jesus, those in the graves, those still living when Jesus calls us to the Marriage Supper, who are separated unto God, and filled with His Holy Spirit, and those who then refuse the Mark of the Beast, die for Christ Jesus during the Tribulation, and thus are also separated unto God via Christ Jesus blood. They are then also resurrected from the dead after the Tribulation/Judgments of God on Earth have been fulfilled. The separation of 7 years is not something that can restrain or bother God, as shown with the 70 weeks decree, God is not restrained by periods of time.We look at things that way, but God doesn't always see things as we do, imho, the First Resurrection is all those people who are under the Blood of Jesus during any part of a 7 year period called the Great Tribulation.

God Bless.....

 

[JLB]

When i look at Fukushima i see this taking place...

Revelation 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.


Nuclear Engineer: I agree Fukushima can be "extinction event" It’s a myth that disaster is being contained.

Nuclear Expert: Radioactive material has contaminated much of the Pacific Coast of North America.. Negative impacts of the accident have spread throughout the world

http://enenews.com/nuclear-engineer...-negative-impacts-accident-spread-world-video

The discovery of nuclear energy brought us to..

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I guess the post number speaks for itself.


JLB

 

[JLB]

God decreed a judgment unto Israel via Daniel, it was in 3 sections, the 2nd and 3rd sections divided by at least 2000 years, well, close to 2000 years anyway. It is the 70 weeks judgment upon Israel. 7 Weeks, 62 weeks and the last week separated by about 2000 years. Now lets go back unto Daniels time, or even Jesus' time, would anyone have thought that a Decreed Judgment from God would be at two different points in time ? Separated by 2000 years ? Probably not, but God is not subject to time, and probably does not even recognize it in His doings.

We humans probably overemphasize certain words. For instance, the "First Resurrection", can it not be all the Dead in Christ over a Seven year period ? The Dead in Christ rise First, then we who are alive and remain meet Christ in the air, to forever be with the Lord, we understand in Revelation 19 that we marry he Lamb in Heaven then come back to earth with Jesus on white horses, so this chapter tells us we do not meet Jesus in the Sky, come straight back to earth and do battle with the Beast/Kings/their Armies. So what gives ?

Well, if we read Rev. 6, the 5th seal is the Martyrs under the Alter, who died for Jesus, no doubt during the Tribulation because they are in the midst of the Seal Judgments. These are people who became Christians after the rapture, who will not take the Mark of the Beast, but would rather lay down their life for Christ Jesus so they can gain Heaven, of course.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on THEM THAT DWELL ON EARTH ? {{ Notice those souls under the alter, want God to avenge their deaths on WHO ? On Those that dwell on Earth [present tense] so everyone of these souls died during the Great Tribulation period Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24. But they were Given White Robes and told to wait until all has been fulfilled. ( Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.) Now let us think this through logically, if everyone was Resurrected after ALL HAD BEEN FULFILLED, there is no way anyone could be with Jesus in Heaven, then COME BACK to earth on White Horses, with Jesus, and then do Battle with the Beast, his Kings and their Armies as Revelation 19:19-20 shows us, SEE BELOW !! That is IF those under the Alter, the 5th Seal......... were the Dead in Christ Jesus in Sum Total of all 2000 years, but alas, they are not the Sum Total, but only those that died during the Great Tribulation, where the Anti-Christ murders and God Judges the Nations. They were given their White Robes and told to wait until all was fulfilled.

The Raptured Saints were given their White Robes in Heaven at the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of MUCH PEOPLE IN HEAVEN, saying,................. Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the Marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (Church) hath made herself ready. 19:8 And to her (Church/Saints) was granted that she should be arrayed in FINE LINEN, Clean and White: for the FINE LINEN IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE SAINTS !! }}

Rev.19:19 And I saw the Beast, and the Kings of the earth, and Their Armies, gathered together to MAKE WAR against Him (Jesus) that sat on the horse, and against HIS ARMY. (Saints) 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So, the First Resurrection is the resurrection of all the dead in Christ Jesus, those in the graves, those still living when Jesus calls us to the Marriage Supper, who are separated unto God, and filled with His Holy Spirit, and those who then refuse the Mark of the Beast, die for Christ Jesus during the Tribulation, and thus are also separated unto God via Christ Jesus blood. They are then also resurrected from the dead after the Tribulation/Judgments of God on Earth have been fulfilled. The separation of 7 years is not something that can restrain or bother God, as shown with the 70 weeks decree, God is not restrained by periods of time.We look at things that way, but God doesn't always see things as we do, imho, the First Resurrection is all those people who are under the Blood of Jesus during any part of a 7 year period called the Great Tribulation.

God Bless.....

I don't realyy understand the point you are making.


Do you agree with this following statement? Yes or No.

The resurrection occurs before the rapture, in which just after the resurrection, those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.

...caught up together with them, is very clear.

The Resurrection/rapture is one event, that happens at His coming.


And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17



JLB

 

[Rondmon]

I don't realyy understand the point you are making.


Do you agree with this following statement? Yes or No.

The resurrection occurs before the rapture, in which just after the resurrection, those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.

...caught up together with them, is very clear.

The Resurrection/rapture is one event, that happens at His coming.


And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17



JLB

I thought the post above it was self explanatory. I will try again, maybe I was not very clear. The First Resurrection doesn't have to happen at the same time, it could be called the first resurrection because all those dead in Christ are resurrected first, on both sides of the Rapture then 1000 years later, after Satan is loosed a season and conquered again, everyone who were not in Christ Jesus, will be resurrected and Judged.

Just like the 70 Weeks Decree by God against Israel is separated by 2000 years. The first Resurrection is all people saved by the blood of Jesus. The dead in Christ rise out of the graves, those Christians who are alive will join them and Christ in the air, to go to Heaven, to marry the Lamb in Heaven, then come back with Jesus Christ, after the Tribulation.

Then those who died during the Tribulation, who became Christians, who rejected Satan and did not except the Mark of the Beast, will also be raised from the Dead. This is still part of the FIRST RESURRECTION, which is the Resurrection of those under Christ Jesus' blood. ALL OF US, at different times, is STILL the First Resurrection.

I don't do yes and no's, very well, LOL. The Resurrection of the Dead happens, the Rapture happens at the same time, right as the Anti-Christ is fixing to come on to the World Stage, 3 1/2 years before he becomes Violent is when the Rapture happens. Then the dead in Christ and us who were alive, go to Heaven, without our bodies. We Marry the Lamb and get new Glorious bodies, put on white robes, then ride back to earth with Jesus on white horses to defeat the Beast and his minions. Then when the Anti-Christ is defeated, those UNDER THE ALTER who died during the Tribulation, will be resurrected. It is still the first resurrection. The first resurrection is the resurrection of those who have eternal life. The second resurrection will be the resurrection of those who will be damned to hell fire.

Marvel not at this: for the hour comes, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment [damnation—KJV] (John 5:28-29).

God Bless........

 

[ezrider]

Marvel not at this: for the hour comes, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment [damnation—KJV] (John 5:28-29).

I am not jumping into your discussion with JLB. Just wanted to share a couple of scriptures in reference to that which you posted from John 5:28-29.

Daniel 12:1-4
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


Hosea 6:1-3
Come, and let us return unto the Lord:
for he hath torn, and he will heal us;
he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us:
in the third day he will raise us up,
and we shall live in his sight.
Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning;
and he shall come unto us as the rain,
as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

 

[Rondmon]

I am not jumping into your discussion with JLB. Just wanted to share a couple of scriptures in reference to that which you posted from John 5:28-29.

Daniel 12:1-4
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


Hosea 6:1-3
Come, and let us return unto the Lord:
for he hath torn, and he will heal us;
he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us:
in the third day he will raise us up,
and we shall live in his sight.
Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning;
and he shall come unto us as the rain,
as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Hello Brother, I will probably be at the Heart Doctor tomorrow all day, so I will go ahead and reply, and you can jump in anytime, we brothers in Christ should always be able to confer with one another.

I think there are three stages to the First Resurrection, I probably did not explain it very well, so I will just paste my resource material, so as not to confuse my brothers as to what I think, and so I can get to bed. SMILE..... I hope this is easier to understand. The Dead in Christ rise First. Then the Rapture happens, that is a Mystery, not all will die, but some will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. Then there will be a resurrection of those killed during the Tribulation. Those who arise in Christ, do it at death. I will show this with scriptures.

The Two Resurrections

When our Lord Jesus was here upon earth, He taught that all men who die will be raised again at some future date. “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, And shall come forth . . .” (John 5:28, 29). We affirm and avow our belief in the resurrection of the human body from death and the grave. Without this hope our Christian faith is vain, our brightest hopes are merely bursting bubbles, the Bible is not a true and reliable record, the men who wrote it were poor deluded victims of falsehood, and Jesus Christ is the world’s biggest impostor. But so clear is the Bible on the subject of the resurrection that we admit no confusion or doubt.

A Wrong Conception
Many people, among them some Christians, have been taught to believe that there is only one “general” resurrection of all the dead at the end of the world. This is a serious error which has robbed many believers of joy and victory in this life. Nowhere in the Scriptures are we taught that the bodies of all men will be raised at the same time. It is true that all the dead will be raised and brought into judgment, but neither the time, the place, nor the judgments are the same. The Bible clearly distinguishes between a first and a second resurrection.

. . . All that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth: they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:28-29).

When men are raised, not all will be raised at the same time nor in the same condition. There will be two resurrections for two classes of men. One will be raised to eternal life and immortality, while the other will be raised to condemnation and banishment from the presence of the Lord. There is a “resurrection of life” and a “resurrection of damnation.”

And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee; for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just (Luke14:14).

There is, then, a “resurrection of the just,” and since “all shall come forth,” there must of necessity be a resurrection of the unjust. Since the dead in Christ shall rise first, the implication is that the dead out of Christ (or without Christ) will be raised afterwards. Luke makes no mention in the above passage about a resurrection of the unsaved. Indeed the unsaved shall be raised, but not for a considerable length of time after the saved have been raised. When Paul testified before Felix, he said, “that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust” (Acts 24:15). The Apostle John makes a clear distinction between the two. He speaks of the redeemed who “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection” (Revelation 20:4-5).

Every believer has passed out of death into life (John 5:24). His life “is hid with Christ in God” (Colossians 3:3), and the exceeding greatness of God’s power in resurrection toward us who believe is the same “mighty power which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead” (Ephesians 1:19-20). And by that same power will all the unbelieving dead be brought out of their graves to stand before the judgment of the Great White Throne.

The First Resurrection
“For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first” (1 Thessalonians 4:16).

Surely language could be no clearer than this--“The dead in Christ shall rise first.” We see first that the time of the First Resurrection is the coming again of our Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds of Heaven to rapture all of the saints to Himself. Here we must distinguish between Christ’s coming for His own before the millennium and His coming again to raise the rest of the dead (unbelievers) who remained in their graves during the thousand years. Let there be no misunderstanding that it is a settled fact that there is at least a one thousand year interval between the First and the Second Resurrection. The Apostle John, by Divine inspiration, confirms this,

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them; and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (Revelation 20:4-5).

At the consummation of the First Resurrection there are three companies of believers who will have been raised at different times. Let us say, for clarity, there are three stages of the resurrection of believers:

(1) When our Lord was crucified on the Cross, we read: “And, behold the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose” (Matthew 27:51-52).

(2) There is the second stage of the First Resurrection to which we already have made mention (1 Thessalonians 4:16), when all true believers are raised at the first appearance of Christ. To this we add the Apostle Paul’s word in First Corinthians: “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (1 Corinthians 15:52).

(3) The third and final stage of the First Resurrection occurs about seven years after the resurrection of saints at Christ’s second coming . “Those resurrected near the close of the seven years’ period of the tribulation are the multitude of believers who were led to the truth through the witness of the 144,000.” Because they would not receive the mark of the beast in their hands and foreheads, they were martyred. These are brought forth from the dead at the end of the Tribulation just before Christ comes to earth to reign for one thousand years.

Glory to God, Amen. I hope this helps you understand my thinking brother. I think way to many times we as Christians try to see things in restrained ways, when the answer is in he scriptures, I truly believe the scriptures show that the Damned will be judged after Christs 1000 year reign. Jesus will even use his Perfect Reign as evidence against how they lived.

 

[JLB]

it could be called the first resurrection because all those dead in Christ are resurrected first, on both sides of the Rapture then 1000 years later,

The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture, are one event and occur, at His coming.


Here is the scripture, to validate my statement -

And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

...we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.


The coming of the Lord, occurs on the day that is known as the Day of the Lord.

Here is the scripture and context -

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:2

The coming of the Lord, Day of the Lord, is when the Lord returns from heaven to earth, and destroys the wicked, and gathers His people at the resurrection/rapture.


Here is the scripture with context -

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


It is plain to see, from the scripture above, that the coming of the Lord to gather His people, is the same coming of the Lord that destroys the false christ.




JLB

 

[JLB]

At the consummation of the First Resurrection there are three companies of believers who will have been raised at different times. Let us say, for clarity, there are three stages of the resurrection of believers:

The dead in Christ, will be resurrected at His coming.

Dead; meaning they are not physically alive. Metaphorically; they sleep -
In Christ; those who are in Christ and are joined to Him. These are Christ's people.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


The Resurrected dead in Christ, and the raptured ones who are alive and remain, shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.

The Resurrection of the dead in Christ and the Raptured is one event, that happens at His Coming.

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:21-23

All those who are Christ's, shall be made alive, at His coming.



JLB

 

[Rondmon]

The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture, are one event and occur, at His coming.


Here is the scripture, to validate my statement -

And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

...we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.


The coming of the Lord, occurs on the day that is known as the Day of the Lord.

Here is the scripture and context -

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:2

The coming of the Lord, Day of the Lord, is when the Lord returns from heaven to earth, and destroys the wicked, and gathers His people at the resurrection/rapture.


Here is the scripture with context -

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


It is plain to see, from the scripture above, that the coming of the Lord to gather His people, is the same coming of the Lord that destroys the false christ.




JLB

What part of and the dead in Christ will rise first gives you the impression that the dead in Christ arises on the same day as those who are alive and remain ? This is kinda what I was speaking of when I said we have a tendency to overemphasize words or verses. The Dead in Christ will rise first. Then those who are alive, then we meet them in Heaven. Scripture backs this up, Matthew 27:51-52 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, {{ The Dead indeed will rise first. Then we will meet them in Heaven at the Rapture. Then the Dead in Christ will be raised up at Jesus' Second Coming. Three separate events. Jesus shouted that shout, a victory over death and the Grave , and a call unto those under his blood years ago. Thus the graves were opened when he died, and Saints of old arose at the time he died. We will be caught up together is referencing us Saints who are alive, we will be caught up together with those already in Heaven.

The Day of the Lord is Judgment of this world, always has been, always will be, the Church is Judged first, then those in Christ are Raptured out, those who do not have the Oil (Holy Spirit) are left behind. Then this world is Judged in the Great and Terrible day of the Lord.

Scriptures prove there are Two Resurrections, the One of the Dead in Christ and the one of those who are not believers.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. { What is the First Resurrection ? Not the one a 1000 years later, which will be the resurrection of the Damned, but those that arose in Christ wen they died, those who were Raptured and those who were killed in the Tribulation for Christ Jesus.

All the others are Resurrected after Jesus' 1000 year reign. We get way to caught up in timing, there is no time with God or Jesus. As soon as Jesus died he arose, then shouted the victory over death the grave and hell. Saints arose from their graves to join Jesus on THAT VERY DAY (Matthew 27:51-52) as this verse says, and Jesus also told the man on the cross beside him, you will be in paradise with me on this very day !! The dead in Christ arise when they die and go to Heaven, many people with near death experiences always see their Dads/Moms etc. etc in Heaven. Jesus shouted the victory over death 2000 years ago, he called the Saints home, all Christians who die hear that shout of the Holy Spirit and go home to be with Christ. There will be a time when we are Raptured, when Jesus calls those us us who are alive and remain home to be with him and the other Saints in Heaven. I really think people get way to caught up in words and verses in the singular, instead of putting it all together like a mosaic. After all, everything was written in Hebrew and Greek, then translated into English, every single translation is not perfect, and the Old English was a peculiar language. But by putting all the scriptures together, we can see the Dead that are damned do not rise until the 1000 year reign is up, and by looking at scriptures elsewhere we see that the Saints rose at Jesus' death, and that He told the thief on the cross, you will be in paradise with me today, this means when we die, we go straight to Heaven, or we stay in the grave if we are not of Christ and await the Second Resurrection which will happen 1000 years afterwards like Revelation 20:5 says

As per 2nd Thess. The Day of the Lord is Judgment, thus when we are Raptured, the Seven Seal, Seven Trump and Seven Vial Judgments begin on the inhabitants of earth.

God Bless. Time to go see my Heart Doc.......Bawww humbug.

 

[JLB]

What part of and the dead in Christ will rise first gives you the impression that the dead in Christ arises on the same day as those who are alive and remain ?

• All the dead in Christ will rise at His Coming.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

• The dead in Christ, and those who are alive and remain will be caught up together, to meet the Lord in the air.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

God Bless you and heal and restore your heart.


JLB

 

[Rondmon]

• All the dead in Christ will rise at His Coming.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

• The dead in Christ, and those who are alive and remain will be caught up together, to meet the Lord in the air.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

God Bless you and heal and restore your heart.


JLB

You have that part in bold, yet its says, Christ the First Fruits, AFTERWARDS those who are Christ's at his coming. Like I said, the Old English, does things backwards and awkward. But each one in his order, Christ the First Fruits, AFTERWARDS those who are Christs at his coming. No where does the scriptures say the Dead stay dead until Christ returns. In fact scriptures say different, as I pointed out, thus the scriptures can not be ignored. Jesus told the thief, today you will be with me in paradise. And in the Verses I cited earlier, Matthew 27:51-52, the Saints came forth from the Grave when Jesus died.

So we have Matthew telling us Saints left the Grave when Jesus died, and Jesus telling us the thief beside him on the cross would be with him in paradise that very day. So unless Jesus and Matthew are fibbing, the Dead in Christ go straight to Heaven, and thus the Dead in Christ rise first (THIS IS TRUE) and those of us who remain shall be caught up to be with them, at a FUTURE TIME.

Also scriptures testify to TWO RESURRECTIONS. One a 1000 years later. I am just going by scriptures on both accounts. Nowhere does it say that the Dad in Christ and those that Remain are traveling at the Same time, one is just called FIRST.

 

[Jim Parker]

Great tribulation is all around us.. have we so soon forgotten what's going on at Fukushima? They can't stop the never ending release of radiation into our atmosphere..

The 20th century was a century of constant warfare including 2 world wars and the spreading of communism by means of revolutionary wars. The 21st century has begun with the spread of Islam by "Holy War."
We have invented nuclear weapons, chemical weapons and biological weapons.
We are polluting our water and making our food inedible by genetic manipulation.
So how much more "tribulational" could it get?

 

[Sinthesis]

Great tribulation is all around us.. have we so soon forgotten what's going on at Fukushima? They can't stop the never ending release of radiation into our atmosphere..

http://enenews.com/reporter-many-experts-believe-fukushimas-melted-fuel-burned-concrete-floors-gone-down-groundwater-one-deeply-3-cores-melted-ground-one-cores-audio?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ENENews+(Energy+News)

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

If you can forget about whatever tribulation, then it's really not that great.

 

[Jim Parker]

If you can forget about whatever tribulation, then it's really not that great.

I think 70 to 85 million killed in WW2 and and another 16 million in WW1 plus some more millions in all the wars in between, before and after and not counting the millions disabled qualifies as great tribulation.