Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[Rondmon]

The Church didn't replace Israel,it has always been Israel...
When you say Israel will be saved by God,can you clariy

Sure Brother N2..........First I will point out Paul's mention of this, and his quoting of Isaiah, then I will pint to the obvious description of Zechariah chapters 12 and 13.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. {{ God Forbid !! }}

11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. { God blinded Israel from the 70 week Decree, even until Paul's time, and unto now }

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness ? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead ?

{{ By the Jews falling, the Gentiles gained Salvation, God gave the dispensation of the Gospel unto the Gentiles. People just can not grasp in full it seems that the Gentiles and Israel are Separate entities, and always will be. The proof is down a little further, if read properly. }}

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree ? { Catch that ? The Gentiles are in the Family tree, but Paul calls them wild Branches, STILL.....And he calls the Jewish people the Natural Branches of the Family Tree. Jews and Gentiles, like I said in my other post are in the same family, of the same tree so to speak, but Jews are still Jews (Natural Olive Branches) and Gentiles are still Gentiles. (Wild Branches) }

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: {{{ MYSTERY Paul calls it..... or the root words says, Secret, through Silence. Paul then tells this secret mystery unto the Gentiles. Blindness has come upon the Jews until the Time of the Gentiles be come in or fulfilled.

Jesus says in Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

And again Jesus says in Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The Dispensation of the Gospel by the Gentiles has a Set Time Period. But what is it ? Well according to the two scriptures above, Jesus tells us this exactly. Jerusalem will be under Gentile control until the time of the Gentiles has come in or come full. Jerusalem is now under Israeli control. And the Gospel via the help of TV, has been preached unto all the world. The Gentiles time is up, our calling of spreading the gospel unto all the world is pretty much done, now the 144,000, the two witnesses and some Angels take over that Duty, and we Christians are raptured to Heaven.

 

[Rondmon]

The Church didn't replace Israel,it has always been Israel...
When you say Israel will be saved by God,can you clariy

Zechariah 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. { This will happen shortly, no Doubt, when the world comes against Jerusalem. }

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. { The Whole World now burdens themselves with this Israeli/Palestinian Conflict. }

4 In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness. { After 2500 years, God once again will fight Israels battles for them.}

12:8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. {God sends an Angel to fight Israel's battles, He favors them again}

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. (Again Favor}

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

{{ God pours out the Spirit of Prayer and Grace upon Israel, and then shows them supernaturally who their true Messiah is, the One Whom they Pierced (Jesus) and they all MOURN DEEPLY !! }}

13:1 In that day ( What Day ? The Day when Jesus is Revealed as Their Messiah) there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. { IN THAT DAY.....There shall be a FOUNTAIN opened for SIN and UNCLEANNESS.....AMEN....The Blood of Jesus is that Fountain. Amen. }

2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. { IN THAT DAY, the idols will be cut off !! and the prophets (False Prophets or Rabbis) and unclean spirits (Devils/Lying Spirits) will pass out of the Land....AMEN.....No more Lying about who Jesus is/was.....NO MORE LIES !!! }

3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. { Even the parents of these former prophets (Rabbis) will not put up with anymore lies about their Messiah, Jesus Christ. AMEN.}

4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: { But most of the former Rabbis will be ashamed of their Former Vision, and they will understand, Jesus is the real Messiah. }

5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth. { They will say, but I am no prophet, I am a Farmer. }

{{{{{ This is what is meant by ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED, Paul knew the Mystery/Secret, because he was taken up to the third heaven and taught by God and His Angels. There is a thread that runs through the bible, that shows the Gentiles time having a certain time frame, and the Jewish Peoples being rescued from their Sins, and their Blind Eyes being opened up, but the 70 Weeks penance has to take place first. The Church is Raptured, and God saves all Israel that will call upon His name, he shows them supernaturally that Jesus is their Messiah, and they MOURN for the one whom they crucified. Then God protects Israel in the Wilderness for 42 Months. }}}}}

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

It is/would be an honor to die for Christ while furthering the gospel to all the world. This was a must needs be - 2000 years ago. Today every person on this earth has heard of Jesus Christ, basically, TV takes this message even to the end of the earth.

It's true that just about all the world has probably heard about Jesus, but I don't think they've heard the gospel. Jesus said something similar when he asked, "Why do you call me Lord, but do not obey me" and "this people draw near to me with their lips, but their heart is far from me".

There are plenty of people talking about Jesus, but regarding what he taught there's very little of that. For example, Jesus said A LOT about greed and materialism, but what church do you see in the world with any rules regarding greed? For the most part, the opposite has occured; chasing after money is not only seen as good, but necessary for life. Some churches have become quite proficient at equating material gain with godliness.

I know from personal experience that there are very few people out there teaching the kind of message Jesus gave to a rich ruler and even when that kind of message does come up, most people, Christians included, argue against what Jesus taught. I just cannot see that we're finished when it comes to brining the message of Jesus to the people.

Us Christians give our lives gladly to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ unto the Lost.

That hasn't been my experience. My experience with most Christians is that they serve mammon most of the week so that they can pay others to do the evangelism for them.

But God leaving us in a world where billions will die, has no merit nor meaning, as all the world knows of Jesus, and either accept or reject him.

Death only has merit and meaning when it's for a purpose. For example, that verse I quoted from the Revelation, where it says that the saints overcome the Beast by laying down their lives. It is their willingness to die which gives them their power. What did you think about that verse?

Our job is done brother, the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled when the Gospel is preached unto the ends of all the world, we have done that, the 144,000, the two witnesses and a few angels will take over the preaching.

I don't understand the logic here. If the job (of preaching) is done, then what would be the purpose of the 2 witnesses, 144k, and "a few angels"? If the job is done, as you suggest, then what is there for these various people to "take over"?

There will be new converts who will have to face the consequences of becoming Christians after the Rapture. They must endure.

Hmmm, ok. I'm guessing you will say it is because of these new converts that the 2 witnesses, 144k, and a few angels will "take over" the preaching job, but then, if there are all these new converts who will convert, ( presumably as a result of hearing the preaching), then how can our job be over? By your own reasoning, there will be plenty more preaching to do.

 

[Rondmon]

It's true that just about all the world has probably heard about Jesus, but I don't think they've heard the gospel. Jesus said something similar when he asked, "Why do you call me Lord, but do not obey me" and "this people draw near to me with their lips, but their heart is far from me".

There are plenty of people talking about Jesus, but regarding what he taught there's very little of that. For example, Jesus said A LOT about greed and materialism, but what church do you see in the world with any rules regarding greed? For the most part, the opposite has occured; chasing after money is not only seen as good, but necessary for life. Some churches have become quite proficient at equating material gain with godliness.

I know from personal experience that there are very few people out there teaching the kind of message Jesus gave to a rich ruler and even when that kind of message does come up, most people, Christians included, argue against what Jesus taught. I just cannot see that we're finished when it comes to brining the message of Jesus to the people.



That hasn't been my experience. My experience with most Christians is that they serve mammon most of the week so that they can pay others to do the evangelism for them.



Death only has merit and meaning when it's for a purpose. For example, that verse I quoted from the Revelation, where it says that the saints overcome the Beast by laying down their lives. It is their willingness to die which gives them their power. What did you think about that verse?



I don't understand the logic here. If the job (of preaching) is done, then what would be the purpose of the 2 witnesses, 144k, and "a few angels"? If the job is done, as you suggest, then what is there for these various people to "take over"?



Hmmm, ok. I'm guessing you will say it is because of these new converts that the 2 witnesses, 144k, and a few angels will "take over" the preaching job, but then, if there are all these new converts who will convert, ( presumably as a result of hearing the preaching), then how can our job be over? By your own reasoning, there will be plenty more preaching to do.

Hello Brother.........As per all the world hearing the Gospel, Jesus said the Good NEWS of Jesus must be preached unto all the world, he didn't say everyone would accept it, or those preaching it would make it to heaven, ember the passage where Jesus say "Depart from me, for I never new you" and says some people would say but Lord didn't we cast out devils in they name etc. etc. So a Christian living a life in Christ, or people who hear the Gospel, receiving the Gospel is not a requirement, the Gospel must be preached unto all the world. When that happens, and Jesus isn't going to tarry for one person living in a cave, then Jesus will call the Gentile Church home, for our job, the Dispensation of the Gospel unto all the world, will have been accomplished.

{ I wish I knew how to quote and answer in between like you did above, every time I try it my post gets placed into the above quote. LOL. P.S. I might have figured it out, seems you have to click on each single quote. }

Of course the sin of the Rich Ruler was not being rich, it was valuing money over Jesus. If in his heart he would have given all his money away and followed Jesus, the Jesus wouldn't have even asked him the question, it is the heart that is wicked above all things, and deceitful. You can be rich, and place God above Money.

My experience is just the opposite, I have seen many Christian missionaries in my life, and they go through much troubles for Jesus. Many have died in far away countries etc. etc. No one wishes to die, but true Christians would lay down their lives for their Master, Christians in Syria and Iraq just recently were slaughtered instead of denouncing Jesus.

My Merit and meaning quote was meant to imply that everyone has already heard the Gospel and accepted or rejected Jesus. Of course many, (some in my family no doubt) will see the Church Raptured, will then decide to give their lives to this Jesus whom they refused to live for before we were taken away, and thus our lives/our rapture unto Heaven has far more effect on people who knew us, than being slaughtered by a dictator. Now the verse they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and their testimony of Jesus Christ, means they laid down their lives instead of accepting the Mark of the Beast, or they were willing to die, thus they overcame death by dying . (It is the second death that kills ones soul.) When people see all the Christians die at once, they will understand that we were Raptured. Of course many will still hate Jesus/God and will always hate Him.


Our Job is done, in that we have preached the Gospel into all the world. That was the calling of the Gentile Church. Gods plan is perfect. We go to Heaven to Marry the Lamb. The 144,000, the two witnesses and Angels in Heaven preach the word still.....because God will still give the people of this world a chance to repent, we know this because the word in Revelation says that many when these plagues come will curse God and Still will not Repent, meaning they have a chance to repent and accept the God/Jesus of the bible, but refuse to do so, and curse Him instead.


Because our job is over when ALL THE WORLD hears the Good News. Jesus said that is when the Gentiles time will have come full. By being Raptured, this will cause more people to become saved than you can imagine. Some people will just not believe, until a cataclysmic event happens, they are just kinda doubting Thomas' , you know the type no doubt. If people not being Christians were the reason Jesus couldn't come to Rapture his Church, then he would never come to Rapture us the Church to Heaven.

The 144,000 WILL BE SUPER PREACHERS.....The two witnesses will hold power over the earth for 3 1/2 years, their exact prayers will be granted. For the most part, their words will be testimony that evil peoples will have been given multi-chances to Repent.

Amen, God Bless.

 

[Free]

The Lords Day,starts the milennium,however way you want to phrase it....

It isn't a matter of "however you want to phrase it," "the Lord's day" and "the day of the Lord" are two different phrases. It has already been pointed to you that "the day of the Lord" always refers to the coming of Christ for final judgment. And it is telling that the early church adopted "the Lord's day" to refer to Sunday.

 

[for_his_glory]

Rondmon,

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshipping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts, 1Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and then Israel started practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The TempleMount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original TempleMount.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldeans) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshipping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 4.

The 490 years were up and the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10. The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.

2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is my breakdown of every verse in Rev 7 about the 144,000. I'm doing this in two parts as it is very long.

Part 1
Rev 7:1-8
John is given another vision after these things, meaning after the first six seals that are revealed to him. He now sees four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding the four winds of the earth in order that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree until Gods servants were sealed.

These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan is not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.

When studying the history of the twelve tribes of Israel being the sons of Jacob/Israel we find from 1047 B.C. and 931 B.C. the twelve tribes were under the leadership of three Kings, Saul, David and Solomon. Near the end of Solomon's reign he fell into idolatry and God spoke of tearing apart the Kingdom as judgment for these sins, 1 Kings 11:10-12.

After Solomon's death his son Rehoboam became King and those ten Northern tribes (Israel/Ephraim) rebelled against King Rehoboam and followed after Jeroboam up North causing a division of the north and south Kingdom. Only the tribe of Judah (Judah) and the tribe of Benjamin (Judah) stayed Loyal to King Rehoboam in the southern Kingdom for they kept Gods commandments as they knew David was the lineage of the promised Messiah as it was prophesied of the prophets of God. For almost two centuries the two Kingdoms where divided, but a remnant of the ten tribes soon came back to Judah after following Jeroboam as he turned the northern Kingdom into idol worshippers.

This is the importance of the 144,000 of the house of Israel and their generations unto the end of days. There were those of the old covenant that were faithful to God in keeping all his commandments and repented of their idol worshipping. Their generations who have also come back to Gods grace that are still alive during the seven trumpet sounds will continue to preach to the Jews as it was with Peters instruction in Matthew 10:6. The generations of the 144,000 that are still alive have the seal of God on them which are the seven Spirits of God as they will have to endure much persecution until the end of days before the return of Jesus.

Rev 7:9-12
After John understands who these servants are that needed to be sealed of God were Jews he is now shown a great multitude of Gentiles from all over the world that stand before the throne of God and before Jesus. They are clothed in white robes and have palms in their hands. They are exclaiming that Salvation is of God that sits on the throne and unto the Son of God being the scarified Lamb, Psalms 3:8.

 

[for_his_glory]

Part 2
Rev 7:13-14
In John’s vision the elder was asking John if he had understanding of those which are in white robes and how they came to be there. John did not recognize them as being Jews and asked the elder to explain who they are and where did they come from. The elder reveals to John these are they who have come out of great tribulation being Gentiles that have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and were baptized and received the Holy Spirit as the Jews have received.

John had to understand this in order to write this to the seven churches. Jews were always taught that the Gentiles were an unclean evil people full of idol worshipping and in no way could they be worthy of anything of God including his love. Jew’s were not allowed to associate with the Gentiles in fear they too would fall to their idol worshipping like they did when they followed after Jeroboam. The twelve Disciples were only allowed to go to the nations of Israel to preach, Matthew 10:5-7, but Peter was shown in a vision that the Gentiles were not unclean as they too needed to repent and come to God for his salvation.

Peter was summoned of God to go to the house of Cornelius, but to only preach for a short time as the door of salvation by faith was always opened to the Gentile, but it would be in Paul’s timing to walk through that door to preach to them, Acts Chapters 10, 11; Acts 22:21. Before Paul fully started teaching and baptizing many of them all they could do was get bits and pieces of Gods teachings by standing out side of the synagogues hearing the Prophets that spoke and mingling into the crowds that followed Jesus.

There is no difference between Jew or Gentile in the eyes of God as he created all people equal and is no respecter of person as Peter found out, Acts 10:34, 35. Galatians 3:26-29 says we are all children of God by faith. This faith in God started with Adam, but he lost his Spiritual fellowship with God when he chose to disobey Gods commands and needed to repent so the same with every generation from the time of Adam until the return of Jesus need to repent of their disobedience in order to have Gods promise of life eternal with him.

The terms Gentile and Jew were derived from nations and their cultures. Abraham is referred to as a Hebrew in Genesis 14:13. Hebrew means one from beyond and is derived from Eber (or Heber, Strong's no. 5676) meaning the region beyond the Euphrates. The term Hebrew also is taken to mean to pass or to cross over. Abraham crossed over the River Euphrates to get to the land of Canaan, from Chaldea. Abraham was a Chaldean not a Jew.

The term Jew came from Abraham’s Great Grandson Judah in whom the land given to him was called Judea and the people called Judeans. The word Jew is a short term version of Judean and has nothing to do with race, but only that of a culture of people. The word Gentile is of Latin origin and means nations or foreigners meaning those who were born before Abraham. Abraham is our example of Gods faith as in the covenant God made with Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 and to all nations, Romans 9:24-28, as no man is justified by the law in the sight of God as the just will live by faith, Galatians 3:11-13. The new covenant of grace is that of the promises Messiah now come that has redeemed us from the curse of the law being made the final blood sacrifice for the atonement of all men’s sin.

We have to remember these are visions given to John in his time to give to the seven churches to teach them of those things which have to come first before the return of Jesus. Before we start our study of the last seal that leads into the seven trumpets there are certain things that need to be clarified and understood. According to John 3:13; Ecclesiastics 12:7; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 there has never been anyone taken up to heaven, not even Enoch as he was taken by God, but does not say where he was taken, Genesis 5:24. The same with Elijah who was caught up in a whirlwind to the first heaven that is atmosphere not the heaven where God sits on his throne, 2 Kings 2:11, as several years after he was taken away in the whirlwind King Jehoram received a letter from him.

Enoch, Elijah and all the others before and after them that have faith in God and have kept his witness and testimony are all asleep in the grave as it is only our spirit that is taken up to God as he reserves it until the time when Jesus returns in the air.

The elder is trying to explain to John that those in the vision before the throne of God that are wearing white robes are Gentiles that have come from other nations that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. These are the generations that Paul first taught in Acts 22:21 as he was commissioned of God to go to the gentile nations. They have come out of great tribulation that the world has not seen yet as they kept the witness and testimony of the word of God as they went about preaching to those during the time of Gods final wrath on earth as we will see in our study of the seven trumpets and the two witnesses.

Rev 7:15-17
This is speaking of the end of time after earth and heaven (atmosphere) have been purified from all the abominations that has caused much desolation (sin) in the world and then at that time will the heaven and earth be restored and the New Jerusalem ushered down from God where we will have eternal life with the Father.

 

[for_his_glory]

Daniels first half of the 70 weeks:
First Advent of Messiah:

From rebuilding the Temple to Messiah birth. This was Ezra rebuilding the literal Temple, but also prophetic of the Spiritual Temple making it ready for Messiah to return.

Daniels sixty nine weeks are four hundred and eighty three Solar years (Daniel 9:25). Seven weeks of years was forty nine years rebuilding Jerusalem around 457B.C. (Ezra 7:11-26; 9:9). Sixty two weeks of years was the period of time leading up to Messiah the Prince in the beginning of his ministry in 27A.D. up to the crucifixion in 31A.D, (Daniel 9:26). From the cross to the second advent of Messiah’s return was a prophetic gap being the present Church age (Gentiles) which was a mystery not revealed to Daniel, Ephesians 3:4-10.

Daniel's second half of the 70th week:

The second advent of Messiah is from the time of Christ ministry to the cross. There are seven Lunar years of great tribulations as described in Daniel 7:13, 14; 9:26, 27; 12:1 and the outline of Matthew Chapter 24. A peace treaty between Israel and the one who is to come (son of perdition) will fall in the last week of Daniels seventy weeks.

This is just a small summary that explains the temple and the holy city. It’s an in-depth study that is very relevant to the end times before Christ returns.

Daniel gives six major events that characterize the four hundred ninety years.

1. To finish the transgression - Israel's rejection of Messiah (Jesus) as Israel is brought to restoration at the time of the second coming.
2. To put an end to sin - The sins of National Israel will not be forgiven until the deliver comes out of Zion and a new covenant is given to them.
3. Made reconciliation for iniquity - Life, death an Resurrection we are now reconciled through the blood of Christ as the final sacrifice
4. To bring in everlasting righteousness - This is when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to the earth and set up His kingdom.
5. Seal up the vision and prophecy - This will be the time when all prophecy is fulfilled and the Lord Jesus Christ will be Lord of Lord and King of Kings.
6. Anoint the Most Holy - The Lord Jesus Christ will be anointed when the temple is cleansed at the end of the 2520 days when He returns.

Daniel 8:14 and he said unto me, unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. This is the full 70 weeks which end with the return of Christ when the kingdoms of this world will finally be the kingdoms of our Lord, Revelation 11:14, 15. (Notice the second woe is past and all events that take place during the seventh trumpet come quickly)

 

[Rondmon]

Rondmon,

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshipping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts, 1Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and then Israel started practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The TempleMount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original TempleMount.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldeans) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshipping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 4.

The 490 years were up and the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10. The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.

2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Jesus was CUT OFF after 69 Weeks, there is still a week left for penance, thus Israel has not yet paid the price in full. Have you ever read the Valley of Dry Bones Prophecy ? I am sure you have, Israel was prophesied to LIVE AGAIN. Isaiah also prophesied (as Paul said) that all Israel would be saved .......And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob....The biggest thing I see is you say the 70 Weeks is finished. I can not figure out how that could have come to pass without twisting the figures/facts. For instance, Jesus was cut off after the 7 Weeks and 62 Weeks. Jesus was cut off after 69 weeks.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, ( plus the 7 Weeks in which the order was given to Rebuild ) but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now if this was a continual prophecy, when Jesus was crucified at around 30-33 AD, then there would have been One Week left on this Decree of Daniel's, and by the year 40 AD, the prophecy would have had to have been over, but alas...... the temple was not destroyed until 66-70 AD, not in 40 AD. So we know that this prophecy has 3 separate parts to it, and that the 3rd part is separated in time from when the Messiah was cut off or killed. (Has to be) So when he Confirms a Covenant with Israel for One Week, at the end of the war(s) ALL WARS so to speak, that has nothing to do, nor can it, with Antiochus, not one thing, because all prophecy points to this Covenant being an end time event.

CLUE........ I can show every event that speaks about 42 Months, 3 1/2 years, 1260 Days, the Middle of the Week or a time, times and a dividing of time when does these events take place ? ALWAYS, in the End Times/Last Days, Always !! Every single time. So we have this Covenant agreed to for this Final Week, and in the Middle of this Covenant this guy breaks the Covenant, after 3 1/2 years or 42 Months. Now why would we think this is in AD 70 ? It should be AD 40, if we are saying this has to be continual years of Prophecy, so SCRATCH THAT !! It doesn't have to be, IS NOT Continual years, can not be Continual years............So it is split off years after the Messiah is cut off. So now what years FIT BEST to this 70 Weeks Prophecy for the Final Week ?

Lets find all the references to 3 1/2 years, 42 months, 1260 days and see what Time they are Set in: AD 70 or in the End Times/Last Days.

Revelation 11:2 The holy city they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophecy a thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. {{ Rev. 11:2-3 are both set in the End Times because that is when the Two Witness come forth. }}

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days. {{ This is Israel (Woman) Fleeing into the Wilderness, as the Abomination of Desolation comes to pass, just as Jesus foretold in Matthew 24 when he told those that understood, to Flee Judea, and not look back. End Time Prophecy. }}

Revelation 12:14 And the woman was given wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. {{ God protects Israel in the Wilderness, 1260 Days. End Tie Prophecy. }}

Revelation 13:5 And there was given to the Beast a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and power was given to him to continue fourty and two months. {{ Again, the Beast/Anti-Christ is the one that breaks a deal in the Middle of the Week, and he is given power to continue/Rule for 42 Months !!! End Time Event , there can be no doubt. }}

Daniel 7:25 He shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws -- and they shall be given into his hands until a time and times and the dividing of a time. ( Time, times and a half a Time is 42 Months, again, every time, everywhere this Time Frame is mentioned it is End Time/Last Days. }}

Daniel 12:7 It shall be for a time, times, and half a time that he can scatter the power of the holy people. {{ Same thing here. }}

So this Week for penance that is left, is Israel's call to repentance, heretofore they have been blinded because of there backsliding ways. I showed about that All Israel will be Saved, and that God will show Israel supernaturally who their Messiah is.Replacement Theology is just not a fact. From my perspective, when we don't get the scriptures right, it is like a car out of line, eventually it throws everything out of balance. The Church is Raptued and Israel still has a weeks penance to pay.

The Scriptures point to this 42 Months as being End Times/Last Days, and in Daniel 9:27 the deal is broke in the Middle of the Week, 42 Months, and everywhere 42 Months is mentioned (or 1260 Days, 3 1/2 Years) it is End Times. Daniel 9:27 is therefore End Times. }}

 

[for_his_glory]

I never said the seventy weeks are finished as it is not finished until Christ returns and makes an end all all abominations that causes desolation when Satan, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire.

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshipping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts, 1Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

I never said the second temple was destroyed in 40AD. The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and then Israel started practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.

 

[Rondmon]

I never said the seventy weeks are finished as it is not finished until Christ returns and makes an end all all abominations that causes desolation when Satan, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire.

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshipping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts, 1Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

I never said the second temple was destroyed in 40AD. The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and then Israel started practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.

Catch the confusing part ? You said Israel's chance to repent is over, they had their chance and blew it. Then you said the 70 Weeks of Penance has not yet ended. Both can not be true. Until the 70 Weeks are up, Israel has a chance to repent. And Israel WILL REPENT, just as Zechariah chapters 12 and 13 say, just as Isaiah says will happen. I did not say you said the Temple was destroyed in 40 AD, I said if the 70 Weeks were finished, it had to end in 40 AD instead of 70 AD, that is if the 70 Weeks can't be splintered into, but you say that it can, I misread you because you are saying Israel can not repent, yet their penance is not over, you readily admit this, so Israel can yet Repent.

The Bible says Israel Repents and God protects Israel and fights fir then again.

You see where I got confused ? Until a penance is over, the chance for Repentance is still an option.

God Bless.

 

[n2thelight]

Deleted by me

 

[n2thelight]

It isn't a matter of "however you want to phrase it," "the Lord's day" and "the day of the Lord" are two different phrases. It has already been pointed to you that "the day of the Lord" always refers to the coming of Christ for final judgment. And it is telling that the early church adopted "the Lord's day" to refer to Sunday.

They are the same,I don't care what the early Church adopted,I care what scripture says.So if you can find me a verse that says the Lords day is some day of the week,then Id say I need to do more studying...

So again I still say scripture maintains that they are the same...

 

[n2thelight]

For one to suggest that John was in the spirit on some particular day of the week,makes no sense....

 

[for_his_glory]

Catch the confusing part ? You said Israel's chance to repent is over, they had their chance and blew it. Then you said the 70 Weeks of Penance has not yet ended. Both can not be true. Until the 70 Weeks are up, Israel has a chance to repent. And Israel WILL REPENT, just as Zechariah chapters 12 and 13 say, just as Isaiah says will happen. I did not say you said the Temple was destroyed in 40 AD, I said if the 70 Weeks were finished, it had to end in 40 AD instead of 70 AD, that is if the 70 Weeks can't be splintered into, but you say that it can, I misread you because you are saying Israel can not repent, yet their penance is not over, you readily admit this, so Israel can yet Repent.

The Bible says Israel Repents and God protects Israel and fights fir then again.

You see where I got confused ? Until a penance is over, the chance for Repentance is still an option.

God Bless.

I believe you might be confused by what I said as I never said Israel's chance to repent is over. Many of them went after idol worshipping and walked away from Gods ordinances and died without repenting, but God has always saved a remnant of Israel that did turn back to Him, those who have always been faithful to Him and those who have and will accepted Jesus as Messiah before He returns.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldeans) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshipping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1- 4.

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10. The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.

 

[for_his_glory]

For one to suggest that John was in the spirit on some particular day of the week,makes no sense....

So you reject what John said in Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The Lord's day only appears once in scripture in Rev 1:10. It gives no reference to what day of the week it was as every day is the Lord's day, but more specific refers to the Sabbath day in Mark 16:9; Acts 2:42; 20:7; 1Corinthians 16:1,2 . John was in the Spirit, but yet in his physical body when he received from the angel all these revelations that he wrote down. Throughout scripture the Lord's day is usually referred to as the Sabbath being the first day of the week.

The day of the Lord is a day of Gods great wrath being poured out on those who refuse to repent. It is always pointed out as the day at hand meaning in Gods timing. The phrase “the day of the Lord” is used nineteen times in the Old Testament (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5) and five times in the New Testament (Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10). It is also alluded to in other passages (Revelation 6:17; 16:14).

 

[Rondmon]

I believe you might be confused by what I said as I never said Israel's chance to repent is over. Many of them went after idol worshipping and walked away from Gods ordinances and died without repenting, but God has always saved a remnant of Israel that did turn back to Him, those who have always been faithful to Him and those who have and will accepted Jesus as Messiah before He returns.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldeans) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshipping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1- 4.

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10. The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.

Again, confusion on the 490, I stated earlier that you were implying the 70 Weeks were over and you said this below.....

I never said the seventy weeks are finished as it is not finished until Christ returns and makes an end all all abominations that causes desolation when Satan, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire.


Now in the above post you say the 490 years are over.

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent.

SO................Is the 490 Years over or not ? It is very important. If the 70 Weeks is not over, and I say there is one week left, then everything points to a Rapture/Marriage in Heaven for one Week while Israel finishes off their penance, whereby when it is finished God turns His face back unto Israel. Like Paul, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Zechariah foretold.

 

[for_his_glory]

Again, confusion on the 490, I stated earlier that you were implying the 70 Weeks were over and you said this below.....

I never said the seventy weeks are finished as it is not finished until Christ returns and makes an end all all abominations that causes desolation when Satan, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire.


Now in the above post you say the 490 years are over.

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent.

SO................Is the 490 Years over or not ? It is very important. If the 70 Weeks is not over, and I say there is one week left, then everything points to a Rapture/Marriage in Heaven for one Week while Israel finishes off their penance, whereby when it is finished God turns His face back unto Israel. Like Paul, Isaiah, Ezekiel and Zechariah foretold.

The 490 years of Israel's punishment is part of Daniel's 70 week prophecy, Daniel 9:24-27. Because Israel failed to repent of the sin which caused the Babylonian captivity, the law called for an additional 490 years of punishment. This prophecy involved exactly 490 years or the period of time that Israel should have been punished for falling into idol worshipping disobeying the laws of God . They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshipping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom never had another king since King David and was eventually taken over by the Roman government which still controls Jerusalem today. God is still waiting for all of Israel to repent as He has already saved out a remnant from the house of Jacob that have remained faithful to Him.

 

[Rondmon]

The 490 years of Israel's punishment is part of Daniel's 70 week prophecy, Daniel 9:24-27. Because Israel failed to repent of the sin which caused the Babylonian captivity, the law called for an additional 490 years of punishment. This prophecy involved exactly 490 years or the period of time that Israel should have been punished for falling into idol worshipping disobeying the laws of God . They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshipping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom never had another king since King David and was eventually taken over by the Roman government which still controls Jerusalem today. God is still waiting for all of Israel to repent as He has already saved out a remnant from the house of Jacob that have remained faithful to Him.

Only 69 weeks have passed, though, Jesus was cut off after 69 weeks. That was my point, many try and say the destruction of the Temple finished this off, in 70 AD, but if the 70 Weeks never stopped, then AD 40 would have been the finished date of the 70 Weeks, not AD 70. So they speak about the Temples destruction being the end thereof, but yet it doesn't fit their philosophy.

The 70th Week doesn't start until the Rapture.