Very good point.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural
- Thread starter for_his_glory
- Start date
We can't know for sure, firstly we do not know if Daniel used the lunar calendar or the solar calendar. and thus we also don't know when the decree went forth, there are three decrees, the first is not possible because it went forth in 538 BC, but the other two are like 12 years apart.
The crucial question relates to when the decree was issued "to restore and rebuild Jerusalem." There are three possible dates:
• 538 B.C. — Cyrus, King of Persia, issued a decree to Zerubbabel to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-3; and Ezra 6:1-5).
• 457 B.C. — Artaxerxes, King of Persia, issued a decree to Ezra authorizing him to reinstitute the Temple services, appoint judges and magistrates, and teach the Law (Ezra 7:11-26).
• 445 B.C. — Artaxerxes issued a decree to Nehemiah to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2:1-8).
The author of this piece thinks its the 457 BC timeline, most other thinks it is the 445 BC event, he explains his reasoning. But even if there is a gap in between, or not, has no bearing on there being a gap in the last week. I will post his reasoning why the Final Week has to be a Future event. (I will give a link below at the bottom, Reba taught me how
)A Prophetic Gap
One puzzle remains about Daniel's prophecy. What about the 70th week ? Is it past or future ? I believe there is no doubt whatsoever that it is future. The reason for that conclusion is simple. The prophecy begins by stating that the 490 years will produce six consequences among the Jewish people.
I began this article by outlining those six prophetic events in detail. If you will look back at them, you will readily see that they are still unfulfilled........................................ ( I will post the six he mentioned below )
The prophecy begins by stating that six things will be accomplished regarding the Jewish people during a period of 490 years:
• "Finish the transgression"
• "Make an end of sin"
• "Make atonement for iniquity"
• "Bring in everlasting righteousness"
• "Seal up vision and prophecy"
• "Anoint the most holy place"
.......................................................The Jews are still in rebellion against God, they are still caught up in their sins, they are still refusing to accept the atonement for their iniquity, everlasting righteousness has not come to the earth, all prophecy concerning the Messiah has not yet been fulfilled, and "the most holy" has not been anointed.
There must, therefore, be a gap in the prophecy. This may seem strange to the casual reader. But students of prophecy are familiar with prophetic gaps. They are very common in prophetic literature because of the peculiar nature of the prophetic perspective. God would show His prophets great future events and the prophets would present them as if they were happening in rapid succession because that's the way they appeared. The prophet was like a person looking down a mountain range seeing one mountain top after another, seemingly pressed up against each other, but in reality separated by great valleys which could not be seen.
Jesus Himself recognized this characteristic of prophecy when He read a prophecy from Isaiah in the synagogue in Nazareth. If you will check what He read (Luke 4:18- 19) against what Isaiah wrote (Isaiah 61:1-3), you will see that Jesus stopped reading in the middle of a sentence because the rest of the sentence had to do with His Second Coming.
https://www.raptureready.com/featured/reagan/dr31.html
God Bless
Jesus is our home.
We will join Him in the air on His way to Jerusalem, at His coming.
The resurrected ones will rise first, then those who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.
JLB
Last edited:
What do you think the Jews who build the new Temple, will name the section of the Temple between the holy of holies and the outer court?
JLB
The three distinct time periods are laid out as such to show they are separated from each other.
If they are separated, then what seperates these time periods if not a gap?
I've show the scriptures where the time was started by the world ruler for the stated purpose.
When the next ruler stopped the purpose of the prophetic time period, foretold by God then the prophetic time clock stopped until the next ruler started the purpose again, in which the clock started again.
The question for you:
If these time periods are separated, then what seperates these time periods if not a gap?
JLB
Your insinuation that I have a low view of Christ is extremely offensive, Reba.
Why are you directing such hostility toward me as if I'm the one who want's the Temple built?????
If you can't or won't answer the question, then don't, that's your choice.
What do you think the Jews who build the new Temple, will name the area of the Temple between the holy of holies and the outer court?
Just because those who reject Jesus as Messiah, want to rebuild the Temple, doesn't make it holy.
JLB
People still sin and transgress transgress God's laws.
Prophecy is still unfolding.
When Jesus returns on the last Day of the 70th week, and removes the wicked, then the prophecy will have come to pass and be fulfilled.
The prophecy of His return is still pending.
This alone should tell you the 70 weeks prophecy has not yet been fulfilled.
JLB
The teaching that the Cross was/is not all those things you listed shows a low view of Christ.
No hostility to you. you are a good brother ... Scofield and his butchering of the Scriptures dividing God's people is what i dont like
i answered the ones above.. the one below as to what the Jews name something..
The name man gives to a place is of no value.. I will not ever believe Jesus would refer to a antichrist place as holy..
If Preacher joe built a building and labeled it the holy place would it be any different than the Jew's doing the same?
Then why ever would the HOLY ONE call it holy..
All of what things?
I don't really know who Scofield is.
I know this Preterism is Heresy, and has no place in the Christian doctrine.
The last I looked, it was the Lord who told them to name the areas of the Temple.
Jesus was using the God ordained name of that area of the Temple to describe where the abomination would be placed.
Yes, it would be different, since "a building" is different than the Temple of God, being built in Jerusalem on the Temple mount during a specific time period that God ordained for such things as spoken of by Daniel the prophet, and the Apostle Paul.
“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times. Daniel 9:25
Is the 70th week mentioned in verse 25?
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:26
Is the 70th week mentioned in verse 26?
and again
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
JLB
Because that is what Jesus called it.
“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15
Now if you seem to think Jesus is referring to some other "holy place", than the one in the Temple, please explain why you think this.
JLB
Greetings Reba in Christ Jesus name. Jesus did die for our sins, no doubt, but there is still sin abounding throughout the world, and in Israel. They refuse to accept Jesus and until Israel does they can not make atonement for their Sins, of which was serving false gods and not serving God.
God promised David an Everlasting Kingdom of David's Lineage. "And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever…And now, O LORD God, You are God, and Your words are true, and You have promised this goodness to Your servant." (2 Samuel 7:16, 28) In verse 28 David acknowledges this promise.
And that everlasting righteousness will only come about when Jesus Christ comes back and does away with all wickedness, then we will enter his everlasting Kingdom/Righteousness : 2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Also of note the Hebrew root word used for Transgression is pesha 6588 meaning to Revolt ( national, moral or religious ) so this is about Israel revolting against God. So that which is being brought to an end, or "finished" is a revolt by Israel against God. Gabriel told Daniel that after 70 weeks of Judgment against Israel the revolt would be ended. Paul says all Israel will be saved, he quotes Isaiah in saying this. So only when Israel accepts Jesus Christ can this prophecy be finished.
Mr. Reagan used the words to make atonement for sins, the KJV says to make reconciliation for iniquity ( pretty much the same) but the Hebrew root word used here for reconciliation is kaphar 3722, it means to cover or cancel. The word used for iniquity means perverse or moral decay. So Gabriel tells Daniel that Israel's sins (perverse moral decay) must be covered/canceled before this 70 weeks decree is finished. That can only happen when Israel excepts Jesus as their Messiah, just as Zechariah chapters 12 and 13 says will happen.
And to "seal up" the vision and prophecy: The Hebrew root word used for seal is chatham 2856, it means to "close up" so in reality Gabriel is saying after 70 weeks the Vision and the Prophecy will be closed up or finished and the Holy Place will be anointed .
God Bless.....
The Jewish Nation will build a Temple, out of ignorance, before they accept/recognize that Jesus is their Messiah, but Reba is exactly right here, God is not going to anoint the Temple made to sacrifice animals in. No, what is being spoke of here is the Tabernacle in Heaven/ the Mercy seat of God. Revelation 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
Hebrews 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Jesus will anoint the holy of holies/mercy seat of God, in Heaven with the blood to cleanse Israel. (He already has, they just have not accepted it. )
Sinthesis
Member
The prophecy includes events and a timeline which allow one to pinpoint the exact years of the prophecy if their interpretation is correct.
Yes, as you well know.
Don't you know exactly what year by our reckoning was the second in the reign of Darius?
It only says each of the two events happen sometime after the 62nd week.
I've never come across the exact years, in that prophecy or any prophecy, or any bible verse.
Is there a point you are trying to make.
So what's your point.
No.
Which would be after the 69th week, according to the structure of the prophecy.
This two events take place during a time span of over 35 years, which is clearly longer than seven years, and the 70th week has yet to be mentioned.
That tells me both events don't fall within the 70 weeks time frame, since both events included Gentiles [Romans] being involved in the city of Jerusalem.
JLB
So you believe the abomination of desolation will be in heaven?
“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 25:15
JLB
Did Jesus return and destroy the lawless one by the brightness of His coming in circa 70 AD?
If so, then why do the Jews still practice Judaism, having seen Him and the brightness of His coming, and the destruction of the lawless one, which if that happened in 70 AD, we would certainly have a record of his name.
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
JLB
No, notice my first sentence in the other post. I say that Israel will build a Temple, out of ignorance ( of course it is ignorance of the fact that Jesus is their Messiah ) Satan defiles the temple by erecting a Statue/Idol of himself no doubt, but he will probably do the same in Christian Churches.
Daniel 9:27 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
We pretty much agree on most of this, my point is, God is not going to anoint a building when the true Sacrifice (Jesus) has been made already. To anoint, is to cover (paint over} spread, rub on, consecrate ( surrender, sanctification, separate unto God ) so Jesus covers their sins (Israels) and this was done in a tabernacle in heaven, not on earth. They just have to accept this anointing.
God Bless