That is a very selective use of Scripture which ignores much that clearly shows Jesus set up his kingdom when he came, that it was inaugurated with his resurrection, and that believers are to be going about his kingdom business.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural
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Yes as He plainly said... My kingdom is not of this world.
However, He also said... Pray thy kingdom come...
So we see that His kingdom will one Day consume all the kingdoms of this world, so that "the kingdoms of this world will have become the kingdoms of our Lord" Revelation 11:15
Then the prophecy will have come to pass that says...
The knowledge of the glory of the Lord shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea. Habakkuk 2:14
And again
You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. Daniel 2:34-35
Key Phrase: ...the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found.
The Lord Himself will remove all the kingdoms of this world, as the conquering King, so that only His Kingdom will remain, and there will be no trace of any other kingdom on earth.
Then will this prayer of Jesus Christ have come to pass...
Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.
Something for us all to look forward to.
JLB
Not really, Jesus is a King and Lord, just like I stated, but he is not King of this world, just like Paul stated in 2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Let us take a look at this world and see who is the god of this world by comparing what this world stands for.
Is this world more like Jesus or Satan ?
This world is full liars, cheaters, fornicators, greedy men, lovers of self, people who serve false gods or idolatrous people, atheists, our nation and many others allow abortion, I think I read somewhere where over 1 Billion abortions has happened. Divorce is at record levels, as is out of wedlock births, people are excepting perverted practices as normal, etc. etc. I could go on. Who does this world look like ? Whose image is this world more like unto ?
Satan sadly........... Jesus has to take this world by force, defeat it, then he will be King of this world. It is sad, but true.
Some ramblings
Some folks see the life/death/cross as the center of God's creation.... i do... it was/is not a plan B ... All through the Scripture we can read of God keeping His people united.. Today so much teaching in thinking they are 'rightly dividing' the Word.. divides His people.
The Cross was from the beginning.. never an "if"
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
He Jesus Himself tell us a couple things yet most of us listen more to some theologian...
Jesus said;
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Yet we have accepted the teaching that changes His Words...
We know what His Kingdom is God tell us ...
Rom_14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
yet we wish like the Jewish leaders 2000 years ago for His kingdom to be a kingdom as we envision it..
Jesus told us His Kingdom was here...
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. We know He was/is 'by the Spirit of God... 2000 years a go... We can also read His Kingdom is forever..
Isa_9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Jesus tells us His kingdom
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
We say 'No Lord " Your Kingdom is not now .. and this is what Your kingdom will be..
Some folks see the life/death/cross as the center of God's creation.... i do... it was/is not a plan B ... All through the Scripture we can read of God keeping His people united.. Today so much teaching in thinking they are 'rightly dividing' the Word.. divides His people.
The Cross was from the beginning.. never an "if"
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
He Jesus Himself tell us a couple things yet most of us listen more to some theologian...
Jesus said;
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Yet we have accepted the teaching that changes His Words...
We know what His Kingdom is God tell us ...
Rom_14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
yet we wish like the Jewish leaders 2000 years ago for His kingdom to be a kingdom as we envision it..
Jesus told us His Kingdom was here...
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. We know He was/is 'by the Spirit of God... 2000 years a go... We can also read His Kingdom is forever..
Isa_9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Jesus tells us His kingdom
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
We say 'No Lord " Your Kingdom is not now .. and this is what Your kingdom will be..
YUP He Sure was.. and When He said ..
Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat_6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat_10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat_21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
Luk_10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Luk_11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
Luk 12:30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
Luk 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Luk_17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luk_22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat_6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat_10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat_21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
Luk_10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Luk_11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
Luk 12:30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
Luk 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Luk_17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luk_22:16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
n2thelight
Member
Can't be.....So my question to you,when does or when did the mil start?
As for the 1000 years as a day,read Peter
We are coming up on the 7th day since Adam
n2thelight
Member
Feel like Im just wasting my time,but yet I understand why some are blinded,so I'll just keep rolling!!!
What does these scriptures have to do with the rapture and second coming, when Jesus will return and put an end to all rule and authority, in which the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord.
As long as wicked governments and rulers and kings still govern and rule there will be wars and poverty and crime.
When Jesus returns He will put an end to all rule and authority.
This scripture from Daniel makes this crystal clear.
34 You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. Daniel 2:34-35
All the kingdoms of this world were crushed and completely removed and no trace of them was to be found.
In the days whereby 10 kings will rule the 10 "regions" or kingdoms that the earth is becoming divided up into, which is taking place right now, and is typified by the ten toes on the image, in which is struck by the stone that is cut out without hands.
And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”
Daniel 2:44-45
In the days of these kings... The stone that is cut out without hands, Jesus, will strike the ten toes, then the stone that was cut out without hands will become a great kingdom that will consume all the others and it will fill the earth.
He will put an end to all rule and authority.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corithians 15:22-24
When He puts an end to all rule and power, He will rule from His throne in Jerusalem over all the earth.
For now the kingdom of God is within us.
JLB
Some times we agree
The argument could be made for anytime between the baptism of Jesus and his resurrection.
Thought that would be your proof.
2Pe_3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (ESV)
First, notice that this is a simile--the "as" tells us this--which means that Peter is not saying that a thousand years is a day. Second, as God is timeless, Peter could just have easily said that "with the Lord one day is as a billion years, and a billion years as one day." The number there is irrelevant as a literal length of time. Third, it ignores the usage of such numbers in Scripture:
Psa_50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. (ESV)
That is God speaking. Do you think that God only owns "the cattle on a thousand hills" and not the rest of the cattle on thousands of other hills? That is what your argument leads us to. But we know that God owns all the cattle on earth, those on a million hills and all those not on hills at all. The point here is that the number 1000 is just a large, round number signifying that God owns everything.
Similarly, when Peter uses it and when John uses it in Revelation, we have clear biblical justification for understanding one thousand years as being an indeterminate period of time, probably much longer than one thousand years.
I have just given good reasons as to why this is not the case.
As I said, that is a very selective use of scriptures. Reba's listing of passages with Jesus telling the Jews the kingdom of God was at hand and among them and upon them, is spot on. But there is more that can be added:
Joh 12:31Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. (ESV)
Joh 16:11concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. (ESV)
Satan usurped authority from man and now Jesus was removing Satan's authority.
Mat 13:31 He put another parable before them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field.
Mat 13:32 It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches."
Mat 13:33 He told them another parable. "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, till it was all leavened." (ESV)
These two parables are significant in this discussion. Notice first that the mustard seed, "the smallest of all seeds," grows until it "becomes a tree." This clearly shows that the kingdom of heaven is to start very small and become very large. And the same goes for the leaven. Both parables show that the kingdom of heaven will be a process over time, not something that comes instantly. And this is precisely what we see from the start of Jesus' ministry, particularly post resurrection, until now.
So, either Jesus was telling the truth that the kingdom of God had come upon the Jews, that the kingdom would start small and grow over time, and that Satan has lost his authority, and so that is how we are to understand what we read in Revelation, or he and John are very much at odds on the matter.
The fact that evil still happens in this world is irrelevant as to who is control, who is king and what kingdom is upon the earth. Your argument is based on the unsupported assumption that if Jesus was reigning, if the kingdom of God had begun, then everything would be well. Yes, when Jesus returns he will bring the kingdom to its fullness and then there will be an end to evil, but in the meantime, as the kingdom is supposed to be growing, believers are to be about kingdom business, bringing God's light, healing, and redemption into the world.
We will just agree to disagree here. The "Kingdom of God" coming to you, is true, it comes to all of us who accept Jesus Christ as our Lord, and it doesn't come to those that do not accept him as Lord and savior. Of course Jesus said the Kingdom of God is coming to you, we have the power through prayer to change lives and move mountains, we didn't get that through the kingdom of this world/Satan.
The inference is, the Kingdom of God is come, TO ALL WHO ACCEPT IT.
But Satan is the god of this world, until Jesus returns. If Jesus was King of this world, there would be no sickness or death.
But that doesn't address what Jesus was actually saying and doing. He never told people, including the Pharisees, that the kingdom of God will come upon them who accept it. He said things such as: "But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." (Matt. 12:28, ESV)
First, there is no inferring that they must accept the kingdom to have it come upon them. Jesus states as matter-of-fact that the kingdom of God had, indeed, come upon them, whether they accepted it or not. Second, Jesus links the coming of the kingdom of God through a visible sign--the casting out of demons. The kingdom of God is not just some internal spiritual reality but something that breaks through into the physical realm, bringing light into the darkness.
And yet you didn't address what Jesus said: that Satan was judged and about to be cast out.
I am well versed on the bible, we just believe differently. God's kingdom is not yet over this world. The bible never contradicts itself, Paul stated the god of this world is Satan. You say Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is "Coming" to you. Coming is a verb. Shows that it is in motion, or on the way. Jesus was here, so the King was at hand. I don't really get into the minute verbiage of lingo for many reasons. 1. We do not know the exact words Christ uttered, this is truth, these writers wrote from memory, or wrote in approximation what Jesus said, I am sure they did not copy him word for word exactly, else the bible would have 20 feet wide. God showed me a long time ago, the Holy Spirit has to be relied upon to gather the deep truths. 2. The Translations are nowhere near perfect. We have to use the Holy Spirit to guide us unto the truths, and we have to put everything together, like a mosaic, if there are any parts that don't fit, something is wrong, anytime we have verses tat contradict, we have to go back to work, because God never contradicts Himself. Man just has an understanding problem.
To be honest, I know in my knower, that the Kingdom of God is not yet come unto us, so I am not going to study on it too hard, like I said, we just disagree, something I know via just the Holy Spirit, I can't explain why, somethings I just know in my knower.
I will not say you are wrong, I just don't get into that line of back and forth. I will just say that God has led me in a different direction.
God Bless.
Sinthesis
Member
Mormons support their beliefs in a similar way.