Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[for_his_glory]

This is why there is not a "rapture" at thee end:

Matt. 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Do you see yourself flying off into the atmosphere? Uh, no. It will happen just as Jesus shows us here.

The notion of being caught up in the "air" is a very literal/physical way of looking at the scripture found in 2 Thess. 4:17.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

There are a couple quick scripture references that show "air" and "clouds" in the scriptures are not "literal physical air/clouds."

Ephesians 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Look up into the air. Do we see the prince of the power of the AIR flying around in the physical atmosphere? Uh, no. It has other meanings, scripturally.

For clouds:

Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

I'd dare say we can blow every cloud in the sky around the whole earth into a screen and never find a single witness therein.

Therefore we are not talking a physical flying off, into the atmosphere and into the clouds. That my friends is unfortunately a sad commentary about "literalism" and the distortions of scriptures that it brings. especially to eschatology subjects.

Christ will separate the wheat from the tares/sheep from the goats right after the mark of the beast is taken by all who will bow down and worship its image. The separation will be before the first vial judgment is poured out on those who rejected Christ and took the mark. Rev 13, 14, 15.

This is why there is not a "rapture" at thee end:

Matt. 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Do you see yourself flying off into the atmosphere? Uh, no. It will happen just as Jesus shows us here.

The notion of being caught up in the "air" is a very literal/physical way of looking at the scripture found in 2 Thess. 4:17.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

There are a couple quick scripture references that show "air" and "clouds" in the scriptures are not "literal physical air/clouds."

Ephesians 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Look up into the air. Do we see the prince of the power of the AIR flying around in the physical atmosphere? Uh, no. It has other meanings, scripturally.

For clouds:

Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

I'd dare say we can blow every cloud in the sky around the whole earth into a screen and never find a single witness therein.

Therefore we are not talking a physical flying off, into the atmosphere and into the clouds. That my friends is unfortunately a sad commentary about "literalism" and the distortions of scriptures that it brings. especially to eschatology subjects.

Rapture, or as scripture calls it being caught up, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Parentheses are added by myself as they are not part of the scripture, but reveal that Rev 14:11-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints (Rapture) that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own as they continue to witness Christ to those who will finally have ears to hear up to and during Gods seven vial judgments, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we His Bride has prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, as we are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride.

We then immediately come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.

Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16

 

[for_his_glory]

Great! It's all clear as a bell!
So draw me a 100% accurate picture of the beast.

Which beast, the one out of the sea or the one out of the earth?

 

[smaller]

Christ will separate the wheat from the tares/sheep from the goats right after the mark of the beast is taken by all who will bow down and worship its image.

The point of observation in Matt. 25 IS that the sheep are still on earth, not flown off and away in the rapture.

The separation will be before the first vial judgment is poured out on those who rejected Christ and took the mark. Rev 13, 14, 15.

People get pretty creative when trying to examine these subjects.

Rapture, or as scripture calls it being caught up, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Parentheses are added by myself as they are not part of the scripture, but reveal that Rev 14:11-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints (Rapture) that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own as they continue to witness Christ to those who will finally have ears to hear up to and during Gods seven vial judgments, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

See previous. The sheep are still on earth, not flown off in some rapture. I also addressed the fact that "air" is not the atmosphere of earth in the spiritual applications and that clouds are not the puffy white things floating around in same in the spiritual applications.

The RULE of Christ is on earth. Not somewhere up and gone, flown off with the sheep.

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[for_his_glory]

The point of observation in Matt. 25 IS that the sheep are still on earth, not flown off and away in the rapture.



People get pretty creative when trying to examine these subjects.



See previous. The sheep are still on earth, not flown off in some rapture. I also addressed the fact that "air" is not the atmosphere of earth in the spiritual applications and that clouds are not the puffy white things floating around in same in the spiritual applications.

The RULE of Christ is on earth. Not somewhere up and gone, flown off with the sheep.

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

With such a quick reply I can see you never read any of those scriptures I gave, nor gave time to study them.

Revelations is very chronological in all its details as one event flows into the next event until all things of this prophecy are fulfilled and then we will be with the Lord on the last day.

Not getting creative, but only following the order of the events starting with the beast and his mark, Rev 13, then the separating of the wheat and tare, Rev 14, then the preparation of the vial judgements Rev 15. All these are in chronological order as all of Revelations is.

No body is flying anywhere, but I do believe what is taught in 1Corinthians 15:51-58 and 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 as being very literal.

Rev 11:15 is about the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of the Lord once again as it was in the beginning until Satan started reigning evil over them causing the nations to fall from God. Satan's reign of evil is come to an end as God takes His kingdoms back and makes an end to all abominations once and for all.

 

[Jim Parker]

Which beast, the one out of the sea or the one out of the earth?

Take you pick.

 

[Sinthesis]

Rev 11:15 is about the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of the Lord once again as it was in the beginning until Satan started reigning evil over them causing the nations to fall from God. Satan's reign of evil is come to an end as God takes His kingdoms back and makes an end to all abominations once and for all.

When in the bible was this 'beginning until satan started reigning evil over them'?

 

[smaller]

With such a quick reply I can see you never read any of those scriptures I gave, nor gave time to study them.

I am quite intimately familiar with just bout every concoction there is for end time scenarios, which I earned from studying every one of them. It doesn't take long to see what kind of end times shoes a person has put on.

Revelations is very chronological in all its details

That's your opinion. I don't hold that opinion at all and can say why. Early in Revelation we are told that we are being shown what was, what is and what is to come. That pretty much covers all of human history as it relates to Christ and His Activity with His creation. Rev. 1:4, Rev. 1:8, Rev. 4:8. It's about as far from a strictly timed frame one event to the next chronological narrative as there is. People who try to make Revelation fit that modus are bound to have a bad outcome in determinations.

as one event flows into the next event until all things of this prophecy are fulfilled and then we will be with the Lord on the last day.

I'm with the Lord right now, as we speak. So are you. Even if you can't perceive it.

Not getting creative, but only following the order of the events starting with the beast and his mark, Rev 13, then the separating of the wheat and tare, Rev 14, then the preparation of the vial judgements Rev 15. All these are in chronological order as all of Revelations is.

Without getting sucked down into the same old morass of nonsense regarding the rapture, I'd like to point to the simplicity of the earlier observations, which you seem to be quite intent on ignoring. In Matt. 25 Jesus returns to earth, gathers ALL the nations and divides the SHEEP who obviously are still here on earth from the goats. This alone dispels any notions of floating off into the atmosphere in comic book like portrayals by soooo many end time freaks. It's just not going to happen that way and Matthew 25 shows us how it will happen. But, in order to dodge the obvious, some people even go so far as to have MULTIPLE raptures, which is even more ridiculous. And they do this by piecemealing scriptures, a horrible way to do eschatology.

Let's just get real and say that a lot of these "theories" are personal novels that get sold to the flocks for cash and then stick in the realm of those who take them on.

Just like bad doctrines. Same principle. Get enough money and people believing bad ideas and they stick like glue no matter what.

No body is flying anywhere, but I do believe what is taught in 1Corinthians 15:51-58 and 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 as being very literal.

And that means you believe we are flying into the air and meeting Jesus in the clouds.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Viewing that as a literal physical event is about as bizarre a notion as I can imagine. Are millions or billions of people going to fit in clouds or be able to see each others or Jesus? It's just a ridiculous notion unless we transition to spiritual understandings, NOT literal.

Here is why literal is a completely USELESS tool for understanding end time/eschatology:

Can we see the devil and his messengers?

NO! YET these "characters" who ARE very real do exist and these characters UNSEEN comprise a great deal of the narratives of Revelation. A equally unfortunately is people try to make the "literally viewable" in the form of a man, the anti-Christ for example, when the real anti-Christ is Satan and Satan can't be SEEN. There will be no PHYSICAL MAN anti-Christ and I can show why from the scriptures. The anti-Christ are spirits and there are many of them. They are the devil and his messengers. They just can not be seen in the literal/physical senses.

There is a completely different world that Jesus presents to us to contemplate, and it's not the world we see with our flesh eyes.

Revelation lesson 101.

Luke 17:20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

People who are looking for external things are going to see exactly nothing.

Jesus also tells us that ALL are slumbering/sleeping til the very end, when He arrives, takes in some, shuts out others completely. It's a SURPRISE that catches ALL completely off guard in our mutual SLUMBER. And yes, ALL are and still remain in that slumber. Even believers, all of us. Even if we don't think so.

Is it LITERAL sleep/slumber? Again, no. I feel sorry for literalists. They are just sooo dumb.

Here is A LESSON from Paul about Spiritual Daylight:

Romans 13:
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day;

Do you see?! The DAY in Spiritual Sight is HONESTY. It has nothing to do with a 24 hour clock or the sun being up in the sky where we can see it.

The night in Paul's example are WORKS OF DARKNESS.

These are the Spiritual dissection "scriptural" tools meant to be applied to Revelation. And there are strict examples of how to go about this for every presentation in Revelation in other parts of the scriptures. It's quite entirely fascinating. Far more fun than somebodies literal nonsense fantasies.

 

[for_his_glory]

I am quite intimately familiar with just bout every concoction there is for end time scenarios, which I earned from studying every one of them. It doesn't take long to see what kind of end times shoes a person has put on.


That's your opinion. I don't hold that opinion at all and can say why. Early in Revelation we are told that we are being shown what was, what is and what is to come. That pretty much covers all of human history as it relates to Christ and His Activity with His creation. Rev. 1:4, Rev. 1:8, Rev. 4:8. It's about as far from a strictly timed frame one event to the next chronological narrative as there is. People who try to make Revelation fit that modus are bound to have a bad outcome in determinations.



I'm with the Lord right now, as we speak. So are you. Even if you can't perceive it.



Without getting sucked down into the same old morass of nonsense regarding the rapture, I'd like to point to the simplicity of the earlier observations, which you seem to be quite intent on ignoring. In Matt. 25 Jesus returns to earth, gathers ALL the nations and divides the SHEEP who obviously are still here on earth from the goats. This alone dispels any notions of floating off into the atmosphere in comic book like portrayals by soooo many end time freaks. It's just not going to happen that way and Matthew 25 shows us how it will happen. But, in order to dodge the obvious, some people even go so far as to have MULTIPLE raptures, which is even more ridiculous. And they do this by piecemealing scriptures, a horrible way to do eschatology.

Let's just get real and say that a lot of these "theories" are personal novels that get sold to the flocks for cash and then stick in the realm of those who take them on.

Just like bad doctrines. Same principle. Get enough money and people believing bad ideas and they stick like glue no matter what.



And that means you believe we are flying into the air and meeting Jesus in the clouds.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Viewing that as a literal physical event is about as bizarre a notion as I can imagine. Are millions or billions of people going to fit in clouds or be able to see each others or Jesus? It's just a ridiculous notion unless we transition to spiritual understandings, NOT literal.

Here is why literal is a completely USELESS tool for understanding end time/eschatology:

Can we see the devil and his messengers?

NO! YET these "characters" who ARE very real do exist and these characters UNSEEN comprise a great deal of the narratives of Revelation. A equally unfortunately is people try to make the "literally viewable" in the form of a man, the anti-Christ for example, when the real anti-Christ is Satan and Satan can't be SEEN. There will be no PHYSICAL MAN anti-Christ and I can show why from the scriptures. The anti-Christ are spirits and there are many of them. They are the devil and his messengers. They just can not be seen in the literal/physical senses.

There is a completely different world that Jesus presents to us to contemplate, and it's not the world we see with our flesh eyes.

Revelation lesson 101.

Luke 17:20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

People who are looking for external things are going to see exactly nothing.

Jesus also tells us that ALL are slumbering/sleeping til the very end, when He arrives, takes in some, shuts out others completely. It's a SURPRISE that catches ALL completely off guard in our mutual SLUMBER. And yes, ALL are and still remain in that slumber. Even believers, all of us. Even if we don't think so.

Is it LITERAL sleep/slumber? Again, no. I feel sorry for literalists. They are just sooo dumb.

Here is A LESSON from Paul about Spiritual Daylight:

Romans 13:
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day;

Do you see?! The DAY in Spiritual Sight is HONESTY. It has nothing to do with a 24 hour clock or the sun being up in the sky where we can see it.

The night in Paul's example are WORKS OF DARKNESS.

These are the Spiritual dissection "scriptural" tools meant to be applied to Revelation. And there are strict examples of how to go about this for every presentation in Revelation in other parts of the scriptures. It's quite entirely fascinating. Far more fun than somebodies literal nonsense fantasies.

It's God's creation, not Christ's, but we are who God has given to Jesus, John 6:37-40. It's not my opinion if you read Revelations apart from the 1830's interpretations of a pretrib rapture that was first started by one who did admit the vision seemed evil and dark, but many that she shared it with ran with it like J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day.

Revelations was given to John by Jesus sending an angel to him and John, while being in the Spirit to receive these vision was to write them down and give them to the seven Churches in Asia. Rev Chapter 1. What was (past) what is (present) and what is to come (future). Is Christ activity with us finished, I do not think so as it will be finished on the last day.

Yes, we are with the Lord through the Spiritual rebirth, but only in the Spiritual sense here on earth for Christ has not yet come back as He is still seated at the right hand of God.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

The above in Matthew 25 does not happen until the last day after the seven vial judgements have been poured out on those who still reject Jesus. Matthew 25 Jesus explains who the sheep and the goats are that will be divided when He returns. Has Jesus returned yet, no.

There is no such thing as multiple raptures and no one is going to be physically flying around, but only going to be caught up or in another word gathered together to meet Jesus just as it clearly says in 1Corinthians 15:51-58 and 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. What this will appear to look like is beyond any of our comprehension other than it is going to happen in this fashion.

I would not waste my money on any of those pretrib books that have ever been written and even threw the few I had into the garbage when I use to believe them, but thank God no longer sucked into those theories.

Can we see God or Jesus, no, but we know them by what they have already spoken, by their attributes and how they work through people. Remember, Satan is a counterfeiter and we can see him, by his attributes, his spoken words and working through many people who are antichrist, 1John 2:18, 19, Isaiah 14:13; Matthew 4:1-11, with the last and greatest being the beast out of the sea who gives power to the beast out of the earth who is the son of perdition, false prophet, that will cause a great falling away from Gods truths as many will bow down and worship the beast out of the earth by taking its mark.

Revelations is very literal, but also Spiritual in many parts of what Jesus is teaching the Church. It's the same as what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

[for_his_glory]

Take you pick.

They are both a Luciferian worldwide militant and religious order

 

[for_his_glory]

When in the bible was this 'beginning until satan started reigning evil over them'?

Seriously!!!............ you will find your answer in Genesis Chapter 1-4, Isaiah 14:12; Ezekiel 28:13-17.

 

[Sinthesis]

Rev 11:15 is about the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of the Lord once again as it was in the beginning until Satan started reigning evil over them causing the nations to fall from God. Satan's reign of evil is come to an end as God takes His kingdoms back and makes an end to all abominations once and for all.

When in the bible was this 'beginning until satan started reigning evil over them'?

Seriously!!!............ you will find your answer in Genesis Chapter 1-4, Isaiah 14:12; Ezekiel 28:13-17.

Seriously! You are describing Rev 11:15 as a restoration. I would like to know to what era are kingdoms being restored? Perhaps you can't answer the question. Is Gen 1-4 about kingdoms or people? Isaiah 14 is figurative language about Babylon. Ezekiel 28 contains figurative language about Tyrus.

Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.​

I believe Rev 11:15 is describing something brand new, not a restoration to the way things were once before.

 

[Randy]

Great! It's all clear as a bell!
So draw me a 100% accurate picture of the beast.

I don't need too. I think you will find the clear understanding that God gave in Rev. Which includes both the "angel" of the abyss and the false prophet who acts in his behalf. I don't think God imprisons angels that have remanded faithful to Him. Hence satan and his angels are in the same league as the angel of the abyss. Their time is short. And when the angel of the abyss is released at the appointed time (in the days of rev 11) he seems kind of pissed. You know cursing God etc... (smile).

And FYI I hit mult-quote by mistake and thats why you received a reply which was not meant for you.

Randy

 

[for_his_glory]

Seriously! You are describing Rev 11:15 as a restoration. I would like to know to what era are kingdoms being restored? Perhaps you can't answer the question. Is Gen 1-4 about kingdoms or people? Isaiah 14 is figurative language about Babylon. Ezekiel 28 contains figurative language about Tyrus.

Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.​

I believe Rev 11:15 is describing something brand new, not a restoration to the way things were once before.

It's the beginning of the kingdoms of God that have always been His, but have been destroyed by Satan's reign of evil in it. In the end God will restore all things back to how it was in the beginning as it will be in the end. Genesis 1:1, Rev 21:1. The kingdoms and nations are His people who He was once pleased with and set on earth as its caregivers, but then it repented God that He created man, Genesis 6:6. Isaiah 14:12, 13 is why Babylon in the OT was destroyed and mystery Babylon in Rev chapter 17, 18 will be destroyed. Ezekiel 28:11-19 is a dual reference of Satan and the prince of Tyrus as Satan worked his evil through him.

 

[Randy]

Seriously! You are describing Rev 11:15 as a restoration. I would like to know to what era are kingdoms being restored? Perhaps you can't answer the question. Is Gen 1-4 about kingdoms or people? Isaiah 14 is figurative language about Babylon. Ezekiel 28 contains figurative language about Tyrus.

Rev 11:15 ¶ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.​

I believe Rev 11:15 is describing something brand new, not a restoration to the way things were once before.

The beast is released at the sounding of the 5th trump. Woe to the world then between the 5th and 7th trumps.

For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until then--and never to be equaled again.

The bowl judgments are the judgments that plunge that beasts kingdom into darkness. They are also the last of Gods wrath. Therefore the 5th to 7th trump calls of God run parallel to the bowl judgments. That beasts reign is 42 months and at the appointed time as written by Paul as well as stated in Rev 16:15 the Lord comes and destroys the beast and all the armies that follow him (visible and invisible) The end result in God finally dealing with those who love evil and cause evil is as the 7th trump states. "The Kingdom of this world shall become the Kingdom of God and of His Christ." Rev 11 then is a loving Gods last warning before the great tribulation (1260 days as I read) and a clear sign that can't be mistaken.

Randy

 

[Jim Parker]

They are both a Luciferian worldwide militant and religious order

That's not a picture.
It's just an opinion.
And it's not what Revelation says. It's what you imagine Revelation means.
You (or any one else) can't give an accurate description because the Apocalypse does not give accurate, descriptive data. It gives us a mans best attempt to put his ecstatic visions in to words.
But there is now present in the world such a worldwide militant and religious order. It's called "Islam."

 

[Jim Parker]

To my: "So draw me a 100% accurate picture of the beast." you responded:

I don't need too. I think you will find the clear understanding....

If it was that easy to "find clear understanding" then everyone would agree.
The fact that there are many different understandings is very clear evidence that the Apocalypse is NOT easy to understand. It's so vague and open to such a wide variety of interpretations that it was almost excluded from the canon of the New Testament.

 

[for_his_glory]

That's not a picture.
It's just an opinion.
And it's not what Revelation says. It's what you imagine Revelation means.
You (or any one else) can't give an accurate description because the Apocalypse does not give accurate, descriptive data. It gives us a mans best attempt to put his ecstatic visions in to words.
But there is now present in the world such a worldwide militant and religious order. It's called "Islam."

You have openly admitted that you do not study Revelations, so for one who is not deep into it and given Spiritual insight can not understand the Spiritual, but only that of earthly things. John 3:12

 

[Jim Parker]

You have openly admitted that you do not study Revelations,

I don't go there for doctrine.

so for one who is not deep into it and given Spiritual insight can not understand the Spiritual, but only that of earthly things. John 3:12

Please don't be so arrogant as to judge others' gifts of spiritual insight when you have demonstrated your own limitations.
You're not packing the gear.

 

[smaller]

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

The above in Matthew 25 does not happen until the last day after the seven vial judgements have been poured out on those who still reject Jesus.

Yep. And everyone who is still alive is still here. The believers did NOT get caught up and fly away into the air into clouds.

 

[smaller]

To my: "So draw me a 100% accurate picture of the beast." you responded:

If it was that easy to "find clear understanding" then everyone would agree.
The fact that there are many different understandings is very clear evidence that the Apocalypse is NOT easy to understand. It's so vague and open to such a wide variety of interpretations that it was almost excluded from the canon of the New Testament.

Good point. I've studied these matters for over 3 decades and thee ONLY determination I have made "solidly" is that the devil and his messengers are going to be taking a long goodbye. And I feel quite confident that I can make a solid scriptural case for that. But that's really about it.

Revelation is entirely allegorical, symbolic, parable. Understanding these are a personal passion for me, but it has not resulted in conjuring up fanciful stories to sell to the masses.

"Thee End Is Near" is at this point in time, a long worn out cliche worn by fanatic religious zealot dumbbells.

Will there be an end? Yeah. End of what is always the question. Whenever that happens we'll all know it and can maybe stop scratching our heads.