Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[Randy]

1Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

To ddebate for more than a moment is foolishness in this case. Our God given purpose is found in the last three verses of Matthew and this, very, minor issue, the timing, is utter foolishness and a Satan delighting endeavor. God wants the best for us and if we understand the Rapture will occur, when does not matter!

Okay, I stand amazed! How long will the rest of you contend over what will be, on God's timeline, and do so knowing your opinion matters not? This is proof of vanity so how much longer will you all ignore the wisdom of Proverbs and work to prove foolishness?

The bowl judgments are the judgments that plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness and are the last of Gods judgments.
A coming of the lord.
Rev 16:15 "Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.

2thess 2
Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.


Rev 11 is a sign that can't be mistaken. It must take place before Rev 16:15 as the Lord destroys the beast and his armies. The one who kills the two witnesses after their testimony has been completed (1260 days)

The beast is destroyed by the Lord not human power

I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rideris called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on himthat no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: king of kings and lord of lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birdsflying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

 

[n2thelight]

The one who kills the two witnesses. So no one can name that person yet.

satan kills the two witnesses

 

[th1b.taylor]

The bowl judgments are the judgments that plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness and are the last of Gods judgments.
A coming of the lord.
Rev 16:15 "Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.

2thess 2
Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.


Rev 11 is a sign that can't be mistaken. It must take place before Rev 16:15 as the Lord destroys the beast and his armies. The one who kills the two witnesses after their testimony has been completed (1260 days)

The beast is destroyed by the Lord not human power

I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rideris called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on himthat no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: king of kings and lord of lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birdsflying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

You foolishly and with vanity try to debate me?

 

[Douglas Summers]

No, Douglas, and I may get into trouble here but I am going to be honest. Many people on the Church Registries will not go into eternity through the Narrow Gate because of pretense. The Holy Spirit taught me this some time ago and many pretenders have rebuked me because they have not reached the same conclusion on their own.

Early in this string, I stated my position and asI recall it, I said then it is a fools folly to debate this because, if for no other reason, the Saved will be raptured and they will be raptured regardless of their preferences.

As Christ followers we have an, often repeated, example of what we are to endeavor to become. Pretenders miss this lesson, however, because, like it or not, the Scriptures are a great mystery to the natural man. (Eph 5:31-32)

Before I was saved I owned a KJV and it was as if I read gibberish. But the very night the Holy Spirit entered into my being that book read as though it were an old and familiar novel. To this day, students have major issues understanding the concepts from reading scripture alone. These are not indwelt with the holy Spirt but because of a handful of teachers that are they are able to pretend and fool the humans but they think they are safe. Until they are judged they can fool themselves and that is sad.

Amen brother.

 

[Born Again 2004]

The Disciples who sat with Jesus on the Mt. of Olives in Matthew 24:3 asked Him three questions, when shall these things be, what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? These three questions are now revealed to us as the Spirit of God has revealed them to John who told him to write these revelation visions down and give them to the Church for instruction and understanding. Matthew 24 is an outline of all things that will come to pass that is revealed in full in Revelations before that of Christ return for His Bride. This events are called the great and terrible day of the Lord.

There was a question asked in Revelation 6:17 about the great day of His wrath is come and who shall be able to stand? Part of this question is answered in Nahum Chapter One for one example as there are many scriptures detailing Gods great vengeance against His enemies and His mercy on those who are called by His name having the seal of God on them, Ephesians 4:30. Matthew 24 gives us an outline and Revelations gives us the meaning of the outline.

The spirit of Jezebel runs rampant throughout the land spreading lies from the pulpit that seem pleasing to the ears as many would rather believe their Pastor instead of searching and Spiritually discern what they are being taught, Matthew 7: 21-23, John 3-3-7; Acts 19:1-6; Romans 10:9, 10; 1 John 4:1-6.

The first four seals in Revelations are the beginning of sorrows described in Matthew 24:4-26 before that of Christ return. There are three woes to come after the beginning of sorrows. The first woe is found in Rev Chapter 8-9 with the first six trumpets. The second woe is that of the two witnesses in Rev Chapter 11:1-14 as the preaching of Gods word has come to an end as the time of the Gentiles has been fulfilled in the last person repenting and turning back to God. The third woe begins with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 and it comes quickly.

The Church, which represents the bride of Christ, will face seeing much tribulation as it will be hard to bare seeing Gods wrath on the unjust as we are sent out to preach to them before we enter into the kingdom of God. There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before some seven year Great Tribulation, but there is no scripture that speaks of a seven year Great Tribulation. Some also teach that after Rev Chapter 4 the Church is no longer here on earth. If this were the case then why did Jesus say that those who endure until the end will be saved. The end of what, the end of days or as scripture calls it that great and terrible day of the Lord when final judgment will be passed as the Sheep are separated from the goats and the goats are cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and false prophets.

By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the Holy Place, which is the faith of Christ Jesus so we can endure until the coming of the Lord and be His witnesses as a faithful servant until He comes for His Bride.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is showing us to look for the signs of his coming

Rev 5:13; 6:16,17 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were and we are in the midst of the seven seals right now heading towards the seven trumpets

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation; fulfillment of the gentiles

Rev 8:13 Three woes are war, earthquakes, and meteors

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about Papal Rome ruling the world again as a one world government. 666 represents action of the hands and thoughts of the mind

Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. We can only repent through Gods Spirit and if that Spirit dwells in the hearts of the believers then who would be left for anyone to repent if they wanted to if we were already gone as faith comes by hearing the word of God.

Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation of Papal Rome’s rule (not Catholics). This is Gods rapture of his bride or as scripture calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air

Rev 19:7,8 We have made ourselves ready by enduring great tribulations, even to death; we had to go through before the end of days

Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until Jesus came back in the clouds for us

Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth

I believe in pre-tribulation rapture and with as many pertinent scriptures but, I think you miss the most important point of all.....is Christ in you , are you a true Christian? Without Christ in you , you are truly lost and it doesn't make" hill of beans" when rapture is.......the likelihood is that you will experience your physical death first and you best be ready for that!!!

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe in pre-tribulation rapture and with as many pertinent scriptures but, I think you miss the most important point of all.....is Christ in you , are you a true Christian? Without Christ in you , you are truly lost and it doesn't make" hill of beans" when rapture is.......the likelihood is that you will experience your physical death first and you best be ready for that!!!

Yes, you are correct that we need to be prepared and also be about our Fathers business until Christ does return. I haven't missed the point you make, but trying to make it clear what happens to those who refuse to repent and turn back to God as when Christ returns it will be to late.

 

[for_his_glory]

1Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

To ddebate for more than a moment is foolishness in this case. Our God given purpose is found in the last three verses of Matthew and this, very, minor issue, the timing, is utter foolishness and a Satan delighting endeavor. God wants the best for us and if we understand the Rapture will occur, when does not matter!

Why would I or anyone else debate the timing of Christ return as only God knows when that will take place. Yes, Jesus will come as a thief in the night to those who are not prepared nor watching for His return, Matthew 24:29-39. If they are not taught how will they know what signs to watch for.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thanks Bill, I thought I was the only one that felt the Spirit shunning such predictions.

Who is predicting as no one knows when Christ will return.
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[smaller]

No, Douglas, and I may get into trouble here but I am going to be honest. Many people on the Church Registries will not go into eternity through the Narrow Gate because of pretense. The Holy Spirit taught me this some time ago and many pretenders have rebuked me because they have not reached the same conclusion on their own.

Early in this string, I stated my position and asI recall it, I said then it is a fools folly to debate this because, if for no other reason, the Saved will be raptured and they will be raptured regardless of their preferences.

There should be fascination with Gods Words. His Word has kept me in rapt attentions since I believed. His Word never gets old. Outside of direct experiences it's our only connection to the ways and means of God in Christ.

And let's face it. Christians end up in sects. Sects have understandings. Some good, some not. Believers who have interests end up studying a lot of different positions over time, and they also change along the way. The majority really don't give a care.

That all being said, even after studying eschatology for 3 plus decades I still don't have a firm position. It's purposefully cloudy territory, obscured for reasons.

As Christ followers we have an, often repeated, example of what we are to endeavor to become. Pretenders miss this lesson, however, because, like it or not, the Scriptures are a great mystery to the natural man. (Eph 5:31-32)

Before I was saved I owned a KJV and it was as if I read gibberish.

Prior to salvation I had a hard time reading half a page. It's not an unusual phenomena.

But the very night the Holy Spirit entered into my being that book read as though it were an old and familiar novel. To this day, students have major issues understanding the concepts from reading scripture alone. These are not indwelt with the holy Spirt but because of a handful of teachers that are they are able to pretend and fool the humans but they think they are safe. Until they are judged they can fool themselves and that is sad.

I still try to approach the subject matter in question "like" I don't have a clue. We all tend to read into the texts things we like to hear and we like discounting/eliminating Gods Words even more on certain matters.

Nobody can beat God at His Own Game.

When "it" happens, whatever "it" is, we'll all know it.

 

[Taniesh]

The first is to take the bride of Christ off the planet to meet Jesus in the air then the tribulation, then the second coming is after the tribulation to set up his 1000 year reign on earth with perfect peace. Then after the 1000 years is done the earth is destroyed and then the Great White Throne Judgement to judge those who didn't make it. The only reason people don't understand the calling out of the true followers (the bride) is they can't comprehend the difference between Jesus second coming and the calling out. The calling out Jesus does not touch the earth which would mean it is not time for him to touch the earth. His second return means he was here before, when he came the first time as a human, so the second time he will not be human. Easy enough a child could understand and that is what is meant by keep it simple.

 

[for_his_glory]

No, Douglas, and I may get into trouble here but I am going to be honest. Many people on the Church Registries will not go into eternity through the Narrow Gate because of pretense. The Holy Spirit taught me this some time ago and many pretenders have rebuked me because they have not reached the same conclusion on their own.

Early in this string, I stated my position and asI recall it, I said then it is a fools folly to debate this because, if for no other reason, the Saved will be raptured and they will be raptured regardless of their preferences.

As Christ followers we have an, often repeated, example of what we are to endeavor to become. Pretenders miss this lesson, however, because, like it or not, the Scriptures are a great mystery to the natural man. (Eph 5:31-32)

Before I was saved I owned a KJV and it was as if I read gibberish. But the very night the Holy Spirit entered into my being that book read as though it were an old and familiar novel. To this day, students have major issues understanding the concepts from reading scripture alone. These are not indwelt with the holy Spirt but because of a handful of teachers that are they are able to pretend and fool the humans but they think they are safe. Until they are judged they can fool themselves and that is sad.

The mystery in Ephesians 5:25-33 is about the wife submitting herself to her husband as we who are the Bride of Christ submit ourselves to Him. It has nothing to do with the mysteries of all scripture that can not be understood with a carnal mind as it only pertains to the wife and her husband and the mystery of the Bride of Christ that the carnal mind can not understand.

If it's not scripture alone through the Holy Spirit teaching us then what else are we to learn from. Maybe all those commentaries that have been written (use discernment) or all the end time books that line the pockets of those who wrote them as they have jumped on a false gospel bandwagon for self gain.

I don't think discussing and sharing scripture on any topic is folly, but only becomes folly when the carnal tries to take over that of the Holy Spirit. Not everyone are on the same level of learning mainly for the fact of how they allow themselves to learn and no one can ever exhaust the word of God. I've been studying the word of God for over forty years and some things I use to believe, especially what came from the pulpit, I now see in a different perspective in what I believe as now instead of reading a chapter and getting the jest of it I now study and read scripture word by word, sentence by sentence, chapter by chapter and comparing OT with NT mixed with history and cultures of the times throughout scripture. The first thing I do is pray first and ask the Holy Spirit guide me and teach me. I know, everyone says that, but I do not know their study habits or how they are taught and only I alone will give an account before Christ of what I have learned and taught others and can only pray I am being truthful to Gods word.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Why would I or anyone else debate the timing of Christ return as only God knows when that will take place. Yes, Jesus will come as a thief in the night to those who are not prepared nor watching for His return, Matthew 24:29-39. If they are not taught how will they know what signs to watch for.

I will not be drawn into foolishness except to state my position and I did that, early on. The scriptures in Matthew are to the twelve and thus to the Christ Follower, not to nor about the lost. To stand in opposition to this saying of mine is to call God a liar and is thus raping the scriptures and is in violation of the last command written in Revelation 22 but was first written in Duet. 4:2 and is written one more time that in my aging process I have forgotten the address,

And there is a rule any Christian must learn if he or she is to serve God: If God said it, live by it, if God said it twice He has highlighted it, so be careful, if God said it three or more times, it must be a Prime Rule in the life of any Christ Follower and God has said, in simple form, neither add nor subtract from His writings. To do what you have just done is to add and to subtract from it's context and that, friend, is heretical.

 

[for_his_glory]

The first is to take the bride of Christ off the planet to meet Jesus in the air then the tribulation, then the second coming is after the tribulation to set up his 1000 year reign on earth with perfect peace. Then after the 1000 years is done the earth is destroyed and then the Great White Throne Judgement to judge those who didn't make it. The only reason people don't understand the calling out of the true followers (the bride) is they can't comprehend the difference between Jesus second coming and the calling out. The calling out Jesus does not touch the earth which would mean it is not time for him to touch the earth. His second return means he was here before, when he came the first time as a human, so the second time he will not be human. Easy enough a child could understand and that is what is meant by keep it simple.

Many teach that the Church will be Raptured out of here before Gods wrath (tribulation), but according to these scriptures the body of Christ who are still alive at Christ coming will be here on earth during the time of the greatest tribulation this world has ever seen nor will ever see again, Matthew 24:21

John 6:40 we are raised up on the last day

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is showing us to look for the signs of his coming

Rev 5:13; 6:16,17 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were and we are in the midst of the seven seals right now heading towards the seven trumpets

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation; fulfillment of the gentiles

Rev 8:13 Three woes are war, earthquakes, and meteors

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about the beast out of the sea that gives power to the beast out of the earth as we are warned to not take its mark


Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. If Christ returns in pretrib rapture then at that time the door of Salvation will be closed.



Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation as mystery Babylon has been described and destroyed as we have not yet been caught up to be with the Lord until the last day.


Rev 19:7,8 We have made ourselves ready by enduring through Gods mighty wrath and refusing the mark of the beast


Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured all things before the coming of the Lord.


Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth when the books are opened

 

[th1b.taylor]

There should be fascination with Gods Words. His Word has kept me in rapt attentions since I believed. His Word never gets old. Outside of direct experiences it's our only connection to the ways and means of God in Christ.

And let's face it. Christians end up in sects. Sects have understandings. Some good, some not. Believers who have interests end up studying a lot of different positions over time, and they also change along the way. The majority really don't give a care.

That all being said, even after studying eschatology for 3 plus decades I still don't have a firm position. It's purposefully cloudy territory, obscured for reasons.


Prior to salvation I had a hard time reading half a page. It's not an unusual phenomena.


I still try to approach the subject matter in question "like" I don't have a clue. We all tend to read into the texts things we like to hear and we like discounting/eliminating Gods Words even more on certain matters.

Nobody can beat God at His Own Game.

When "it" happens, whatever "it" is, we'll all know it.

Yes but so many have never wept on their face for the Holy Spirit's forgiveness and I believe it is because their sins are minor to them and they want sin judged on a sliding scale... but it is not so.

Before the Spirit took me that night in the Juke Joint I could have read the New Living Translation and it would have been gibberish to my soul. There are principals and other hidden sayings and meanings the natural eye cannot see and the natural mind cannot grasp without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And as the mid-eighties Barna Survey of the American Christian Church demonstrated, better than ninety-eight percent of the people in the pews on Sunday Morning do not even believe the basic tenants of the Christian Faith.

Add to that, the lack of interest in the Church today to evangelize Children and Youth and you have an almost dead Church.

 

[th1b.taylor]

The mystery in Ephesians 5:25-33 is about the wife submitting herself to her husband as we who are the Bride of Christ submit ourselves to Him. It has nothing to do with the mysteries of all scripture that can not be understood with a carnal mind as it only pertains to the wife and her husband and the mystery of the Bride of Christ that the carnal mind can not understand.

You scare the snot out of me! God has enfolded scripture, over and over, making it impossible for any natural man to see below the surface and the Prime Rule I live by is not to be taken lightly but it is imperative that it be understood and applied to our very lives and still you try for a silly, useless, debate over discussion.

 

[th1b.taylor]

The first is to take the bride of Christ off the planet to meet Jesus in the air then the tribulation, then the second coming is after the tribulation to set up his 1000 year reign on earth with perfect peace. Then after the 1000 years is done the earth is destroyed and then the Great White Throne Judgement to judge those who didn't make it. The only reason people don't understand the calling out of the true followers (the bride) is they can't comprehend the difference between Jesus second coming and the calling out. The calling out Jesus does not touch the earth which would mean it is not time for him to touch the earth. His second return means he was here before, when he came the first time as a human, so the second time he will not be human. Easy enough a child could understand and that is what is meant by keep it simple.

AMEN!

 

[for_his_glory]

I will not be drawn into foolishness except to state my position and I did that, early on. The scriptures in Matthew are to the twelve and thus to the Christ Follower, not to nor about the lost. To stand in opposition to this saying of mine is to call God a liar and is thus raping the scriptures and is in violation of the last command written in Revelation 22 but was first written in Duet. 4:2 and is written one more time that in my aging process I have forgotten the address,

And there is a rule any Christian must learn if he or she is to serve God: If God said it, live by it, if God said it twice He has highlighted it, so be careful, if God said it three or more times, it must be a Prime Rule in the life of any Christ Follower and God has said, in simple form, neither add nor subtract from His writings. To do what you have just done is to add and to subtract from it's context and that, friend, is heretical.

I'm not going to argue or debate what has been said in Ephesians 5:21-33 as it stands alone for what it says and needs no interpretation. I have added nothing, but what has already been spoken if by God alone. If I had added anything I know the Holy Spirit will correct me as in times past. This thread was made for anyone to join in to discuss, not criticize, as I am not asking anyone to turn away from what they believe, but to discuss why they believe the way they do. If you do not want to share in that then why come in and complain and chastise others

 

[th1b.taylor]

I'm not going to argue or debate what has been said in Ephesians 5:21-33 as it stands alone for what it says and needs no interpretation. I have added nothing, but what has already been spoken if by God alone. If I had added anything I know the Holy Spirit will correct me as in times past. This thread was made for anyone to join in to discuss, not criticize, as I am not asking anyone to turn away from what they believe, but to discuss why they believe the way they do. If you do not want to share in that then why come in and complain and chastise others

My return post is to try for common sense, in the lost, and to cause the saved to stop quenching the leading of the Holy Spirit. In one respect, the natural, you should be proud but in the spiritual sense, not at all, this is not what you are called to do it you are indwelt.

 

[for_his_glory]

My return post is to try for common sense, in the lost, and to cause the saved to stop quenching the leading of the Holy Spirit. In one respect, the natural, you should be proud but in the spiritual sense, not at all, this is not what you are called to do it you are indwelt.

If we only had just these three verses to go by in Matthew 24:29-31 that Jesus spoke, this alone shows what we are to look for before Christ returns if we are still alive at His coming. We are not even saved yet as that doesn't happen until Christ returns, Matthew 24:13, as for now we walk by faith as we are obedient to Gods will as we are secure in the knowledge that Christ will come again and then we will have eternal life with Him.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In fact all of Matthew 24 has been written that we can know what must come first before Christ return for even the disciples could not understand those things Jesus spoke until He was taken up and the Holy Spirit sent down to indwell them.

 

[Randy]

You foolishly and with vanity try to debate me?

I don't use vanity I use scripture. I too have the Spirit of Christ in me. You know its freely given to those who ask with a sincere faith.
I don't feel a "need" to debate as I was trying to help you understand.

Randy