Raptures – Tribulation

[follower]

...... It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the honor of kings to search out a matter Proverbs 25:2

Every single one of those descriptions of the 2nd coming can not all be speaking of the same event. Some passages say he comes in the air, some, He comes to the earth. Others, His own will see Him, others every eye will see Him, and so forth. ....... A good thing for us all that it's non salvific.

Remember, other things associated with false ideas may hinder saving a soul, including preventing a little one from finding the Kingdom.

re some say He comes in the air, some He comes to the earth.
re His own will see Him, every eye will see Him.

Yes. the one and same return. He is at hand. The time is immediately now to listen to Him (whoever can).

Rest in Him. the confusion is not from Him, but from religious leaders (long before we were born) who didn't want the common believer to recognize the (obvious) antichrist system.

 

[Willie T]

Remember, other things associated with false ideas may hinder saving a soul, including preventing a little one from finding the Kingdom.

re some say He comes in the air, some He comes to the earth.
re His own will see Him, every eye will see Him.

Yes. the one and same return. He is at hand. The time is immediately now to listen to Him (whoever can).

Rest in Him. the confusion is not from Him, but from religious leaders (long before we were born) who didn't want the common believer to recognize the (obvious) antichrist system.

This is good. The only thing I would add is the likely fact that each of (and I DO mean everyone of us) is probably just as wrong as all the rest about our personal pet interpretations.

 

[Raelyn]

Remember, other things associated with false ideas may hinder saving a soul, including preventing a little one from finding the Kingdom.

re some say He comes in the air, some He comes to the earth.
re His own will see Him, every eye will see Him.

Yes. the one and same return. He is at hand. The time is immediately now to listen to Him (whoever can).

Rest in Him. the confusion is not from Him, but from religious leaders (long before we were born) who didn't want the common believer to recognize the (obvious) antichrist system.

Yes the confusion from religious leaders has been going on for a very long time but I think the bible is perfect not man.
This is a discussion on the rapture and tribulation. If we need to stop talking about it then let me know.
And if this is a problem or is going to hinder someone from excepting the Lord then the discussion should not have been introduced.

 

[Brother Mike]

This is good. The only thing I would add is the likely fact that each of (and I DO mean everyone of us) is probably just as wrong as all the rest about our personal pet interpretations.

We all don't have to take a bow of humility and just believe we are all wrong. We don't have to just say that it's not really tied to salvation, so if there is a rapture cool, if not then still all cool.

We can seek God and study a bit better than that.

Raelyn posted scriptures about two separate events. One event the Lord removes his body from the Wrath of God to come upon all the unbelieving. If you read just the angelic trumpet events, there are a couple that we simply can't be here unless God intends to break his word to us. That is just the angelic trumpet events, the vials are much worse.

Another side just see's Jesus coming one time to settle the matter (End of 7th Seal Matt 24 and 7th angelic trumpet) Post Trib. They don't see two separate events.

both sides agree on about everything, except timing of events. All agree these events are to come, and the wrath of God on all who don't believe. When the smoke clears though, there will be no doubt, and the lake of fire their smoke of their torment goes ies Aion, Aion. (Greek expression for age upon age with no end)

We need to take a more sure active approach. In that way we can avoid the many other doctrines out there that even remove the possibility of there being Jewish people today, or that Revelation has already come to pass, and nothing else is going down from here. (Preterist)

These other doctrines are seriously in error, and we do good to know what is coming, what it will be, and what is to come after. As long as we understand these events are coming, and God is dealing with his people (Jewish) then all that is left is debating the timing of the events, which is a far better than being lost and in error.

Blessings.

 

[Edward]

Remember, other things associated with false ideas may hinder saving a soul, including preventing a little one from finding the Kingdom.

re some say He comes in the air, some He comes to the earth.
re His own will see Him, every eye will see Him.

Yes. the one and same return. He is at hand. The time is immediately now to listen to Him (whoever can).

Rest in Him. the confusion is not from Him, but from religious leaders (long before we were born) who didn't want the common believer to recognize the (obvious) antichrist system.

Oh I know brother and I appreciate your concern. I am not professing to holding to either belief at this time. Though I was pre trib for a long time, because of man I looked closer at post trib and was able to comprehend it and changed my stance. Solidly. Then without asking for further clarification something came to me which was not of man and told me I better look again for myself. So here I go again, lol.

 

[Edward]

LOL That was funny
Here are the chapter and verses
Examine them if you would like to and tell me what you think about it if not thats ok too. Very interesting
I realize there are different theories.

Rapture & Second Coming Passages

Rapture

Jn 14:1-3
Rom 8:19
1 Cor 1:7-8
1 Cor 15:1-53
1 Cor 16:22
Phil 3:20-21
Col 3:4
1 Thess 1:10
1 Thess 2:19
1 Thess 4:13-18 1 Thess 5:9
1 Thess 5:23
2 Thess 2:1 (3?) 1 Tim 6:14
2 Tim 4:1
Titus 2:13
Heb 9:28
Jas 5:7-9
1 Pet 1:7, 13
1 Jn 2:28-3:2 Jude 21
Rev 2:25
Rev 3:10


Second Coming
Dan 2:44-45 Dan 7:9-14 Dan 12:1-3 Zech 14:1-15 Mt 13:41

Mt 24:15-31 Mt 26:64
Mk 13:14-27 Mk 14:62

Lk 21:25-28 Acts 1:9-11 Acts 3:19-21
1 Thess 3:13
2 Thess 1:6-10 2 Thess 2:8

2 Pet 3:1-14 Jude 14-15
Rev 1:7
Rev 19:11-20:6 Rev 22:7, 12, 20

Glad I could bring a smile to your face sister. I hope you don't want an answer real fast because this is going to take a bit of time. But I will.

 

[Raelyn]

We all don't have to take a bow of humility and just believe we are all wrong. We don't have to just say that it's not really tied to salvation, so if there is a rapture cool, if not then still all cool.

We can seek God and study a bit better than that.

Raelyn posted scriptures about two separate events. One event the Lord removes his body from the Wrath of God to come upon all the unbelieving. If you read just the angelic trumpet events, there are a couple that we simply can't be here unless God intends to break his word to us. That is just the angelic trumpet events, the vials are much worse.

Another side just see's Jesus coming one time to settle the matter (End of 7th Seal Matt 24 and 7th angelic trumpet) Post Trib. They don't see two separate events.

both sides agree on about everything, except timing of events. All agree these events are to come, and the wrath of God on all who don't believe. When the smoke clears though, there will be no doubt, and the lake of fire their smoke of their torment goes ies Aion, Aion. (Greek expression for age upon age with no end)

We need to take a more sure active approach. In that way we can avoid the many other doctrines out there that even remove the possibility of there being Jewish people today, or that Revelation has already come to pass, and nothing else is going down from here. (Preterist)

These other doctrines are seriously in error, and we do good to know what is coming, what it will be, and what is to come after. As long as we understand these events are coming, and God is dealing with his people (Jewish) then all that is left is debating the timing of the events, which is a far better than being lost and in error.

Blessings.

Pre-trib
The rapture I was talking about would happen just before Jesus opens the seals. I do not remove the possibility of there being a jewish people today by any means and God is and will deal with them.
I can only address one thing at a time. There are many studies that have gone on. The secret is finding them fitting all together with the bible, thats not as easy.
Since this is a discussion I believe its good to hear the different views. I think it is good to keep an open mind and still decide for yourself. There are many errors people make and if we research everything we hear, it should become clear as what we believe on the subject of the Rapture and Tribulation or any other study but it should all line up with the bible . I would be the last person to tell someone to take my word for something without question. I don't tell people they are in error of their view of rapture or Trib either because this is just a discussion not a bible class.
Freedom to examine and think on these things and search the scriptures. Which in itself is most enjoyable. Unless it is prohibited I will just state my views if thats ok.
Comparing doctrines to bible will expose errors Im sure.
Sticking to the subject matter is ok with me.

 

[reba]

 

[Raelyn]

Glad I could bring a smile to your face sister. I hope you don't want an answer real fast because this is going to take a bit of time. But I will.

I would be suspect if you replied suddenly. It took me years to even discuss such a thing.

 

[follower]

(1)Yes the confusion from religious leaders has been going on for a very long time but I think the bible is perfect not man.
This is a discussion on the rapture and tribulation. (2) If we need to stop talking about it then let me know.
(3)And if this is a problem or is going to hinder someone from excepting the Lord then the discussion should not have been introduced.

(3) "the discussion" is needed in the sense/truth/ like the Bereans did not refrain from listening to the apostles - but they didn't "trust" them either (they didn't trust paul, without testing. they didn't trust apollos, without testing. they didn't trust "an angel of light"(if one showed up) without testing) --- as Scripture says don't accept any message that isn't verified, in line with, in accordance with Torah. test,test,test.
(2) whether to stop of not, is entirely Yhvh's decision - even though a KING may think he's in charge, Yhvh has even the KING's heart in His control (as Yhvh Pleases).
(1) religious leaders introduced a lot of error after the apostle paul departed, just as the apostle paul said they would. Yhvh kept some (ecclesia, set apart ones) for Himself as He Pleased, all through the centuries. Beginning (historically) with martin luther, Yhvh began bringing Truth back to the humble seeking Him, setting free many who had been entangled in the errors the religious leaders had introduced and enforced.

the error of thinking anyone may have about the rapture and the tribulation is not in itself life defeating. but the leaders who teach error about one thing or another, and who continue doing so, also continue teaching error (and living in error, willingly?/wittingly?) about other basics - all of which anyone may be set free from in the Truth as Yhvh the Creator reveals in His Word and in Yeshua HaMashiach and in all those immersed in Him abiding in His Word. (yes, there's no 'need' to keep on remaining in error just because the rest of the world may love it ! ) ..... and, more pertinent perhaps , all those who desire to live righteous in Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) will as a result suffer persecution. if someone tells anyone that they will be spared from suffering, that they won't have to suffer persecution, that one has no light according to Scripture.

 

[Eugene]

Yes the confusion from religious leaders has been going on for a very long time but I think the bible is perfect not man.
This is a discussion on the rapture and tribulation. If we need to stop talking about it then let me know.
And if this is a problem or is going to hinder someone from excepting the Lord then the discussion should not have been introduced.

Dear Sister Raelyn, it is generous that you would withdraw from discussion of end times to keep from hindering anyone, but truth should never be withheld. I personally believe that God will continue revealing His plan of the ages until we are at home with Him in heaven. If these things were detrimental to His children I do not think the following scripture would have been so prominent to the opening of Revelation.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. I do not know about you, but I as well as most brethren I have ever run into have held the future things of end times in great prominence even when we could understand but little of it. It somehow had great drawing power to make us look further into scripture in relation to all other doctrines also.

 

[Edward]

I would be suspect if you replied suddenly. It took me years to even discuss such a thing.

I hear ya' sister!

 

[JLB]

The time of Jacob's trouble was NOT the Holocaust. The time of Jacob's trouble was fulfilled at the time of the birth of Christ when Herod had all the children slaughtered, yet Jesus escaped to Egypt.

Jer 30:6-7
Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child?
wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail,
and all faces are turned into paleness?
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it:
it is even the time of Jacob's trouble;
but he shall be saved out of it.

Matt 2:16-18 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

Jer 31:15-17
Thus saith the Lord;
A voice was heard in Ramah,
lamentation, and bitter weeping;
Rachel weeping for her children
refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.
Thus saith the Lord;
Refrain thy voice from weeping,
and thine eyes from tears:
for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the Lord;
and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.
And there is hope in thine end, saith the Lord,
that thy children shall come again to their own border.

When you take time to think about it, the children were all cut off, thus leaving the people that remained alive as the final generation born before the birth of Christ and under the old covenant. It gives a little perspective to the term last generation.

Jeremiah 31:15 starts a new word which flows into the New Covenant Prophecy.

15 Thus says the Lord: "A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children, Refusing to be comforted for her children, Because they are no more."



Jeremiah 30:1-11 is the Jacobs Trouble prophecy -

When they are returned and in the Land, then He refers to them as Israel as He sees them as His Covenant people again.

Looking forward through time He sees them back from the captivity - v3

Describing them in this trouble, its Jacob's Trouble - v7

3 For behold, the days are coming,' says the Lord, 'that I will bring back from captivity My people Israel and Judah,' says the Lord. 'And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.'

7 Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob's trouble, But he shall be saved out of it.

11 For I am with you,' says the Lord, 'to save you; Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you, Yet I will not make a complete end of you. But I will correct you in justice, And will not let you go altogether unpunished.'


During the time of Jesus' day, the children of Israel were not scattered to the nations.



JLB

 

[JLB]

[Good studyE="JLB, post: 988414, member: 2772"]The Resurrection/Rapture is one event, with the Rapture occurring just a moment after the Resurrection.

The Resurrection happens for all those who are Christ's at the same time.

Once this is understood then a real study of scripture can take place.


JLB

Good study, some get the timing wrong. Right JLB?[/QUOTE]


Well I think it would be good for us to study all the scriptures about the resurrection then, since we can agree the Rapture comes just after the Resurrection, and that the Rapture can not be separated from the Resurrection, then all that's left is to find scriptures about the Resurrection, and Jesus return, and see if we can discover the truth about this doctrine.

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.


Caught up together with them...

Caught up together with them... to meet the Lord.

All the Resurrected ones and the Raptured ones will be caught up together... to meet the Lord in the air. One Event!

One Coming of the Lord...

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

For salvation is the reference to the Resurrection.

The rapture comes after the resurrection, not before!


Here is the scripture that shows those on earth, Rapture, and those in heaven coming WITH the Lord to be Gathered together.


And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:27

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17


JLB

 

[Raelyn]

(3) "the discussion" is needed in the sense/truth/ like the Bereans did not refrain from listening to the apostles - but they didn't "trust" them either (they didn't trust paul, without testing. they didn't trust apollos, without testing. they didn't trust "an angel of light"(if one showed up) without testing) --- as Scripture says don't accept any message that isn't verified, in line with, in accordance with Torah. test,test,test.
(2) whether to stop of not, is entirely Yhvh's decision - even though a KING may think he's in charge, Yhvh has even the KING's heart in His control (as Yhvh Pleases).
(1) religious leaders introduced a lot of error after the apostle paul departed, just as the apostle paul said they would. Yhvh kept some (ecclesia, set apart ones) for Himself as He Pleased, all through the centuries. Beginning (historically) with martin luther, Yhvh began bringing Truth back to the humble seeking Him, setting free many who had been entangled in the errors the religious leaders had introduced and enforced.

the error of thinking anyone may have about the rapture and the tribulation is not in itself life defeating. but the leaders who teach error about one thing or another, and who continue doing so, also continue teaching error (and living in error, willingly?/wittingly?) about other basics - all of which anyone may be set free from in the Truth as Yhvh the Creator reveals in His Word and in Yeshua HaMashiach and in all those immersed in Him abiding in His Word. (yes, there's no 'need' to keep on remaining in error just because the rest of the world may love it ! ) ..... and, more pertinent perhaps , all those who desire to live righteous in Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) will as a result suffer persecution. if someone tells anyone that they will be spared from suffering, that they won't have to suffer persecution, that one has no light according to Scripture.

Did I say anything about not suffering persecution or tribulations that we have daily in the world? Its going on now. I am just talking about the final 7 years when jesus starts to open the seal and that is all. There is a difference there.

Peace Please

 

[follower]

Did I say anything about not suffering persecution or tribulations that we have daily in the world? Its going on now. I am just talking about the final 7 years when jesus starts to open the seal and that is all. There is a difference there.

Peace Please

I don't know the answer to your question - whether you said anything about not suffering persecution or tribulations that we have daily in the world or not.

So i went back and re-read my post to check. I didn't say you said anything about not suffering persecution or tribulations that we have daily in the world or not.

 

[Brother Mike]

Good study, some get the timing wrong. Right JLB?

Well I think it would be good for us to study all the scriptures about the resurrection then, since we can agree the Rapture comes just after the Resurrection, and that the Rapture can not be separated from the Resurrection, then all that's left is to find scriptures about the Resurrection, and Jesus return, and see if we can discover the truth about this doctrine.

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Caught up together with them...
Caught up together with them... to meet the Lord.
All the Resurrected ones and the Raptured ones will be caught up together... to meet the Lord in the air. One Event!
One Coming of the Lord...
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
For salvation is the reference to the Resurrection.
The rapture comes after the resurrection, not before!
Here is the scripture that shows those on earth, Rapture, and those in heaven coming WITH the Lord to be Gathered together.
And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:27
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17
JLB[/QUOTE]

I understand JLB, but lets not forget who your posting to here. It's easy to separate your one time event into two. Christ and the Church, Christ and judgement.

Seeing that we both have been through this many times, and the level of revelation with scripture knowledge we have, I see no reason to confuse others with things we would only understand.

I also believe that Ezrider has a point about the scripture comparison to Jacob's trouble. I have issues taking things we know by "History" and trying to make that fit when the Word gives us a comparison. I would need to look into it more of course, but Preterist use the same line of thinking, and for me it's a red flag. I know how much you love Preterist... cough.... cough.. I have an issue with the scattered part as you do though, have to look into more. As you know, everything must match perfectly.

Did I say anything about not suffering persecution or tribulations that we have daily in the world? Its going on now. I am just talking about the final 7 years when jesus starts to open the seal and that is all. There is a difference there.

Peace Please

Stay encouraged. No reason to be concerned here about misleading others or giving what you believe. The end time discussion fills this forum and many others, just the same stuff, rehashed in different forms. Through it, we can be led to the right things and learn. I take a pre-trib rapture stance and can defend it. JLB takes a post trib rapture stance and you would really need to know your stuff to refute him (I have tried in the past)

JLB and I take a complete victory position, and Our Lord Jesus will not break his word to us and put us under the yoke of the enemy as many have erroneously taught.

We do have the victory though, and I am not a fan of any suffering doctrine. The Lord said no weapon formed against us shall prosper, and I believe that. Paul is a great example of continuing on the path after Satan has tried to kill him many times. We can't be stopped if we trust in the Lord, we will overcome all things. Unlike the World though, they are without hope, and without God. We on the other hand, if God be for us, there is no force on earth that can be against us.

Blessings.

 

[JLB]

Well I think it would be good for us to study all the scriptures about the resurrection then, since we can agree the Rapture comes just after the Resurrection, and that the Rapture can not be separated from the Resurrection, then all that's left is to find scriptures about the Resurrection, and Jesus return, and see if we can discover the truth about this doctrine.

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Caught up together with them...
Caught up together with them... to meet the Lord.
All the Resurrected ones and the Raptured ones will be caught up together... to meet the Lord in the air. One Event!
One Coming of the Lord...
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
For salvation is the reference to the Resurrection.
The rapture comes after the resurrection, not before!
Here is the scripture that shows those on earth, Rapture, and those in heaven coming WITH the Lord to be Gathered together.
And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:27
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17
JLB

I understand JLB, but lets not forget who your posting to here. It's easy to separate your one time event into two. Christ and the Church, Christ and judgement.

Seeing that we both have been through this many times, and the level of revelation with scripture knowledge we have, I see no reason to confuse others with things we would only understand.

I also believe that Ezrider has a point about the scripture comparison to Jacob's trouble. I have issues taking things we know by "History" and trying to make that fit when the Word gives us a comparison. I would need to look into it more of course, but Preterist use the same line of thinking, and for me it's a red flag. I know how much you love Preterist... cough.... cough.. I have an issue with the scattered part as you do though, have to look into more. As you know, everything must match perfectly.



Stay encouraged. No reason to be concerned here about misleading others or giving what you believe. The end time discussion fills this forum and many others, just the same stuff, rehashed in different forms. Through it, we can be led to the right things and learn. I take a pre-trib rapture stance and can defend it. JLB takes a post trib rapture stance and you would really need to know your stuff to refute him (I have tried in the past)

JLB and I take a complete victory position, and Our Lord Jesus will not break his word to us and put us under the yoke of the enemy as many have erroneously taught.

We do have the victory though, and I am not a fan of any suffering doctrine. The Lord said no weapon formed against us shall prosper, and I believe that. Paul is a great example of continuing on the path after Satan has tried to kill him many times. We can't be stopped if we trust in the Lord, we will overcome all things. Unlike the World though, they are without hope, and without God. We on the other hand, if God be for us, there is no force on earth that can be against us.

Blessings.[/QUOTE]


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:27

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17



The Resurrection and Rapture is One event.


JLB

 

[Raelyn]

Well I think it would be good for us to study all the scriptures about the resurrection then, since we can agree the Rapture comes just after the Resurrection, and that the Rapture can not be separated from the Resurrection, then all that's left is to find scriptures about the Resurrection, and Jesus return, and see if we can discover the truth about this doctrine.

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Caught up together with them...
Caught up together with them... to meet the Lord.
All the Resurrected ones and the Raptured ones will be caught up together... to meet the Lord in the air. One Event!
One Coming of the Lord...
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
For salvation is the reference to the Resurrection.
The rapture comes after the resurrection, not before!
Here is the scripture that shows those on earth, Rapture, and those in heaven coming WITH the Lord to be Gathered together.
And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:27
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17
JLB

I understand JLB, but lets not forget who your posting to here. It's easy to separate your one time event into two. Christ and the Church, Christ and judgement.

Seeing that we both have been through this many times, and the level of revelation with scripture knowledge we have, I see no reason to confuse others with things we would only understand.

I also believe that Ezrider has a point about the scripture comparison to Jacob's trouble. I have issues taking things we know by "History" and trying to make that fit when the Word gives us a comparison. I would need to look into it more of course, but Preterist use the same line of thinking, and for me it's a red flag. I know how much you love Preterist... cough.... cough.. I have an issue with the scattered part as you do though, have to look into more. As you know, everything must match perfectly.



Stay encouraged. No reason to be concerned here about misleading others or giving what you believe. The end time discussion fills this forum and many others, just the same stuff, rehashed in different forms. Through it, we can be led to the right things and learn. I take a pre-trib rapture stance and can defend it. JLB takes a post trib rapture stance and you would really need to know your stuff to refute him (I have tried in the past)

JLB and I take a complete victory position, and Our Lord Jesus will not break his word to us and put us under the yoke of the enemy as many have erroneously taught.

I now find the rapture and tribulation easier to understand than this posting forum lololol for sure. I also think that the rapture is hard to pin down because it is a going to be a surprise to many. Hey when ever.

 

[JLB]

I understand JLB, but lets not forget who your posting to here. It's easy to separate your one time event into two. Christ and the Church, Christ and judgement.

Seeing that we both have been through this many times, and the level of revelation with scripture knowledge we have, I see no reason to confuse others with things we would only understand.

I also believe that Ezrider has a point about the scripture comparison to Jacob's trouble. I have issues taking things we know by "History" and trying to make that fit when the Word gives us a comparison. I would need to look into it more of course, but Preterist use the same line of thinking, and for me it's a red flag. I know how much you love Preterist... cough.... cough.. I have an issue with the scattered part as you do though, have to look into more. As you know, everything must match perfectly.



Stay encouraged. No reason to be concerned here about misleading others or giving what you believe. The end time discussion fills this forum and many others, just the same stuff, rehashed in different forms. Through it, we can be led to the right things and learn. I take a pre-trib rapture stance and can defend it. JLB takes a post trib rapture stance and you would really need to know your stuff to refute him (I have tried in the past)

JLB and I take a complete victory position, and Our Lord Jesus will not break his word to us and put us under the yoke of the enemy as many have erroneously taught.

I now find the rapture and tribulation easier to understand than this posting forum lololol for sure. I also think that the rapture is hard to pin down because it is a going to be a surprise to many. Hey when ever.

There will be no surprise when the Rapture happens, as all the signs leading up to the Resurrection will be fulfilled before our eyes.

The Lord will only come as a thief in the night for the world, unbelievers.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 5:4


JLB