Raptures – Tribulation

[n2thelight]

I do believe in the resurrection of the dead and those still alive when He returns. But that can't be considered post trib. doctrine really because post trib. says the tribulation is still to come. I believe the tribulation spoken of already happened to Israel, I don't see that happening again. Why would it?
The tribulation happened when they did not accept the Messiah Jesus and the temple, Jerusalem, and other towns were destroyed by the Romans. The people, the Jews that had not received the Messiah as their Savior, were displaced all over the world at that time. The end of the Mosaic age of the temple and blood sacrifice of bulls and goats ended.
The book of Hebrews, Jesus, Paul, and Peter all tell the Christians of that day, that it was coming soon, the end of the Mosaic age, and it did. Jesus said some of them standing there would live to see it and some of them did. That is what Jesus literally said, so that is what I believe.
People believe the history that is written about Hitler destroying the Jews, they read and believe what is happening in Israel right now, but people don't read and believe the history written about the destruction of Israel that was written by an eye witness, a Jew, in 70 AD, why is that? I find that very confusing.

The tribulation is when satan pretends to be Christ,ie,the Abomination of desolation,better stated the desolator

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand"

The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.

Daniel 9:27; "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and the determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The Holy place is the place that the temple sits, and this is the subject for the very first, when the buildings of the temple were observed by the disciples, and the question of what it would be like at His second advent. This is where the desolation [Satan, the Antichrist] shall sit on mount Zion, making his abominations, or statements that he is the Christ.

 

[JLB]

Just a servant said -

No more Scriptural origami please. Every heart is wickedly deceptive until God makes it clean.

They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. Titus 1:16

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:15-22


Works is the expression of obedience.



JLB

 

[JLB]

One of the most talked about subjects today is the end times and all the events that surround those times. There is no reason that we be anxious of these times, for Jesus told us to wait patiently on Him. In Mark 13 Jesus is going to give His disciples, and to us the seven seals, and these seals are also recorded in the Book of Revelation. They are the seals that mark the end of this earth age of the flesh. The very word "Revelation" means "to reveal", to make known.

Christ would not His elect in the dark concerning the simplicity of His teaching, so Jesus is asked by three of His apostles here, as they are coming out of the Temple, when is the end of the world going to be. We know from Matthew 24:3, this is the actual wording of the question put to Jesus.


Matthew 24:3
"And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of "Thy coming, and the end of the world."

It is important that we understand the word "world" as used in the Greek manuscripts, is "aion", and "age, or an age of time". In the Hebrew, " `olam", which denotes a limited, or even an extended period of time, such as the context of each occurrence may demand. So as such, this is talking about the end of our present world age which is characterized by a special form of Divine administration or dispensation.
Jesus is giving us in this chapter the seven events that must come to pass to bring to an end to this age, and the return of Christ. There are many church traditions that have complicate the simplicity the Jesus is teaching here. This is why we should have our ear tuned to the Lord Jesus Christ, and not to man's traditions. So the subject to this entire chapter is, "When is the end of this world age, and what are the events that mark that coming."

Remember that the closing thought to the last chapter was the little widow that had enough faith to give all over her livelihood to God and put here trust in God for provision. So don't forget that the famine in the end times is not for the bread that you eat, but for the knowledge and truth of God's Word.


Amos 8:11
"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:"

There will be a famine coming very shortly for the knowledge, and for the hearing of the Word of God.

The rest can be read from the below link..........

http://www.theseason.org/mark/mark13.htm

Here is this person's take on Mark 13:37 from the link you posted.

I think you would do well to read what you are posting for others. -


Mark 13:37 "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."

Many will be caught off guard, and they listen to those that teach, "all you have to do is to have faith." That is not quite true, for how can you possible have faith in something that you know nothing about? How can you have faith in Christ, and then disobey what He says and demands of you? The answer of course is that it is impossible. You can never have faith in Christ and never do any thing for him, and reject what He demands of you. In Christ's eyes you become worthless to him.

You can never have faith in Christ and never do any thing for him, and reject what He demands of you. In Christ's eyes you become worthless to him.





Faith without works is dead!


They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. Titus 1:16



JKB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Rapture and tribulation.
He will come in the twinkling of an eye.
We are to be ready.

But if the tribulation comes first, and the tribulation has not come yet, then are we looking for his return or are we looking for the tribulation instead?
Are some of you expressing a preterist viewpoint here?
I'm not quite sure if I understand preterism.

 

[Just a servant]

Dear Just a servant, without scripture backing what you're attempting to say, I have a real problem following what you're even asking. When Jesus was presented with such ideas He replied with "It is written," and that sufficed to dispel Satan. We have the whole armor of God which is the word completely outside man's perspective, and in it lies the truth God wants us to have concerning His perfect will for us. I see a separation in them of the church, the word given us for this present time, and the resolute judgment of not preparing to have God's best.
If possible just ask a direct question using scripture if there is scripture suggesting what you would like to know. Thanks.

There are many who believe Acts came first. The Greeks he was speaking to had a priest class that took part in "Greek mysteries." This came from the Babylonian mysteries. The Greek mysteries were used to control the population. In fact, they still are in a way. Not much changed.

There are articles written on this subject (whether Paul or Peter knew first) showing both sides of the argument. The answer doesn't much matter to me because the precepts are the same regardless. I was just making sure I understood your view. I don't have the answer.

Preparing men to be presented complete in Christ is something we can not do in this modern era without a lot of help. Not that we shouldn't try, but without direct action from God it won't happen. Even if they understand all of his precepts and practice following them every day, they are unable to give their hearts to Him. You have probably noticed being yoked to the weeds prevents this from happening in our time. It used to be different. Can you see how? There are some very recent developments that changed the world. The Word is always the same, but the world changes. Don't forget how the human mind builds pathways. Look at what we are constantly exposed to from birth. It wasn't always like this. The only way we can be made spotless now is to have our brains completely rewired.

Peace in Christ

 

[Just a servant]

Give their hearts to him *fully* I should add. No one can understand His precepts without giving their heart to Him. But the hearts of men constantly turn back to Egypt, or I could say Babylon - especially at this point in time.

 

[n2thelight]

Here is this person's take on Mark 13:37 from the link you posted.

I think you would do well to read what you are posting for others. -


Mark 13:37 "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."

Many will be caught off guard, and they listen to those that teach, "all you have to do is to have faith." That is not quite true, for how can you possible have faith in something that you know nothing about? How can you have faith in Christ, and then disobey what He says and demands of you? The answer of course is that it is impossible. You can never have faith in Christ and never do any thing for him, and reject what He demands of you. In Christ's eyes you become worthless to him.

You can never have faith in Christ and never do any thing for him, and reject what He demands of you. In Christ's eyes you become worthless to him.





Faith without works is dead!


They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. Titus 1:16



JKB

Not understanding your point...And I always read what I post,and I stand behind it!!!!

Faith withou works is dead,that's exactly what the author is saying........

"How can you have faith in Christ, and then disobey what He says and demands of you?"

 

[Deborah13]

The tribulation is when satan pretends to be Christ,ie,the Abomination of desolation,better stated the desolator

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand"

The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.

Daniel 9:27; "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and the determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The Holy place is the place that the temple sits, and this is the subject for the very first, when the buildings of the temple were observed by the disciples, and the question of what it would be like at His second advent. This is where the desolation [Satan, the Antichrist] shall sit on mount Zion, making his abominations, or statements that he is the Christ.

Where does scripture say the satan pretends to be Jesus?
Where does Matthew, Daniel, or even Rev. say anything about "the Anitchrist?"
imo, the "wings of the desolator" was the wings of the Roman armies lead by Titus, flying the emblem and carrying the staff of the eagle.
Desolator = Roman armies.

 

[Just a servant]

Where does scripture say the satan pretends to be Jesus?
Where does Matthew, Daniel, or even Rev. say anything about "the Anitchrist?"
imo, the "wings of the desolator" was the wings of the Roman armies lead by Titus, flying the emblem and carrying the staff of the eagle.
Desolator = Roman armies.

he will put a stopיַשְׁבִּ֣יתyash·bit7673ato cease, desist, resta prim. root
to sacrificeזֶ֣בַחze·vach2077a sacrificefrom zabach
and grain offering;וּמִנְחָ֗הu·min·chah4503a gift, tribute, offeringfrom an unused word
and on the wingכְּנַ֤ףke·naf3671wing, extremityfrom an unused word
of abominationsשִׁקּוּצִים֙shik·ku·tzim8251detested thingfrom the same assheqets
[will come] one who makesמְשֹׁמֵ֔םme·sho·mem,8074to be desolated or appalleda prim. root

 

[Just a servant]

WhoΤίςtis5101who? which? what?an interrog. pronoun related to tis
is the liarψεύστηςpseustēs5583a liar
but the one who deniesἀρνούμενοςarnoumenos720to deny, say noof uncertain origin
that JesusἸησοῦςiēsous2424Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr.of Hebrew originYehoshua
is the Christ?Χριστόςchristos5547the Anointed One, Messiah, Christfrom chrió
Thisοὗτοςoutos3778thisprobably from a redupl. of ho,, used as a demonstrative pronoun
is the antichrist,ἀντίχριστοςantichristos500antichrist, (one who opposes Christ)from anti andChristos
the one who deniesἀρνούμενοςarnoumenos720to deny, say noof uncertain origin
the Fatherπατέραpatera3962a fathera prim. word
and the Son.υἱόνuion5207a sona prim. word

 

[Just a servant]

There is a strong case to be made that the Antichrist is everyone who denies Jesus, and the way the Antichrist is described in Rev seems to confirm what we see in everyone who denies Jesus. I can not conclude that the Antichrist is actually a single person.

 

[Just a servant]

In Daniel, where it says he will deny the desire of women, before Bethlehem it was the desire of every Jewish woman to bear the Messiah. Some would read that as denying the God of his fathers and the Messiah. The Father and the Son.

 

[Just a servant]

It is interesting that many scholars debate whether the Antichrist is Jewish or a Gentile and both cases are successfully argued.

 

[n2thelight]

Where does scripture say the satan pretends to be Jesus?
Where does Matthew, Daniel, or even Rev. say anything about "the Anitchrist?"
imo, the "wings of the desolator" was the wings of the Roman armies lead by Titus, flying the emblem and carrying the staff of the eagle.
Desolator = Roman armies.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

"Satan claiming to be God" is the abomination, and "he" [Satan] is the desolator, for the entire world will believe him; except for God's elect, and all those who have the seal of God in their minds [foreheads]. The sealed of God have their gospel armor on, and they are ready to face Satan and his system in the spiritual warfare.

 

[Just a servant]

"The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God." that is not true. The Book of Life is already written. From our perspective you are correct, but not from God's.

edit to add: all the angels who followed Satan are also already condemned from our perspective

 

[Just a servant]

Here is something that suggests the Antichrist IS a person. Use of a primary pronoun:

him, [everyone] whose3739usually rel. who, which, that, also demonstrative this, thata prim. pronoun

That is the Greek, though, and Greek pronouns are weird.

edit to add: I just realized that the word it was referring to was whose and not him. Anyways, Greek pronouns are still weird so a Greek pronoun will probably render "him" a neutral pronoun. I think...

Just ignore this post I am reaching here. I have been wondering this for a while now myself and I can't seem to figure it out.

 

[Just a servant]

Allπάντεςpantes3956all, everya prim. word
who dwellκατοικοῦντεςkatoikountes2730to inhabit, to settlefrom kata and oikeó
on the earthγῆςgēs1093the earth, landa prim. word
will worshipπροσκυνήσουσινproskunēsousin4352to do reverence tofrom pros and kuneó (to kiss)
him, [everyone] whose3739usually rel. who, which, that, also demonstrative this, thata prim. pronoun
nameὄνομαonoma3686a name, authority, causea prim. word
has not been writtenγέγραπταιgegraptai1125to writea prim. verb
from the foundationκαταβολῆςkatabolēs2602a laying downfrom kataballó
of the worldκόσμουkosmou2889order, the worlda prim. word
in the bookβιβλίῳbibliō975a paper, bookfrom biblos
of lifeζωῆςzōēs2222lifefrom zaó
of the Lambἀρνίουarniou721ba little lambdim. from arén
who has been slain.ἐσφαγμένουesphagmenou4969to slay, slaughterfrom a prim. root sphag-

But then again, Antichrist is already a proper noun, so it could still be referring to the Spirit of the Antichrist.

 

[Deborah13]

he will put a stopיַשְׁבִּ֣יתyash·bit7673ato cease, desist, resta prim. root
to sacrificeזֶ֣בַחze·vach2077a sacrificefrom zabach
and grain offering;וּמִנְחָ֗הu·min·chah4503a gift, tribute, offeringfrom an unused word
and on the wingכְּנַ֤ףke·naf3671wing, extremityfrom an unused word
of abominationsשִׁקּוּצִים֙shik·ku·tzim8251detested thingfrom the same assheqets
[will come] one who makesמְשֹׁמֵ֔םme·sho·mem,8074to be desolated or appalleda prim. root

I have no idea what you are trying to point out with this post. Maybe you could enlighten me.

There is a strong case to be made that the Antichrist is everyone who denies Jesus, and the way the Antichrist is described in Rev seems to confirm what we see in everyone who denies Jesus. I can not conclude that the Antichrist is actually a single person.

The word antichrist does not appear in Rev. at all, only in 1 and 2 John. There have been many antichrists. John said there were many then.
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.

However, I see the "lawless" one mentioned in Rev. That's what Jesus calls the scribes and the pharisees.

 

[Just a servant]

I have no idea what you are trying to point out with this post. Maybe you could enlighten me.

The word antichrist does not appear in Rev. at all, only in 1 and 2 John. There have been many antichrists. John said there were many then.
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.

However, I see the "lawless" one mentioned in Rev. That's what Jesus calls the scribes and the pharisees.

I was just clarifying with that post. It looks like it does not refer to Roman armies to me.

The Lawless One is definitely not just the Scribes and Pharisees, as you seem to have implied here already.

2 Thessalonians 2:8

I think there is debate over whether the Lawless One is Satan or the Antichrist.

 

[n2thelight]

"The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God." that is not true. The Book of Life is already written. From our perspective you are correct, but not from God's.

edit to add: all the angels who followed Satan are also already condemned from our perspective

Okay,the only one by name sentenced.......On a deeper level,one needs to understand who indeed followed satan,don't want to start anything so I'll just leave it...I will say those that followed him are not all condemed,only those who left their first habitation

Jude 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

These are the 7000 that will die as soon as Christ feet touch the ground

Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

They are the fallen angels