Raptures – Tribulation

[jocor]

Revelation 19 is the same Coming marked by the last trumpet.


JLB

If that is true, then please explain when the beast imposes the mark.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.​

If Rev 19:11 is Yeshua's second coming at the 7th trumpet of Rev 11:15, then when does chapter 13 take place? Do you have the mark of the beast being given prior to the 7th trumpet?

 

[JLB]

If that is true, then please explain when the beast imposes the mark.

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.​

If Rev 19:11 is Yeshua's second coming at the 7th trumpet of Rev 11:15, then when does chapter 13 take place? Do you have the mark of the beast being given prior to the 7th trumpet?

Brother, if you can't understand what Paul and Jesus plainly wrote, then why mix it together with the book of Revelation.

Jesus comes a second time...

When He comes He will gather His people at the Resurrection/Rapture, and put and end to all rule and authority.


When He comes He Himself will personally destroy the lawless one by the brightness of His Coming.

Here is context and the event of Him destroying the lawless one who deceives and works miracles to deceive!

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you...And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

The last trumpet is when Jesus returns to gather his people at the resurrection/Rapture, and destroy the lawless one and put down all rule and authority.

The last trumpet! The end! He returns and that's the end!

One return.

One Coming.


JLB

 

[jocor]

Brother, if you can't understand what Paul and Jesus plainly wrote, then why mix it together with the book of Revelation.

Jesus comes a second time...

When He comes He will gather His people at the Resurrection/Rapture, and put and end to all rule and authority.


When He comes He Himself will personally destroy the lawless one by the brightness of His Coming.

Here is context and the event of Him destroying the lawless one who deceives and works miracles to deceive!

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you...And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

The last trumpet is when Jesus returns to gather his people at the resurrection/Rapture, and destroy the lawless one and put down all rule and authority.

The last trumpet! The end! He returns and that's the end!

One return.

One Coming.


JLB

2Th 2:1-8 pertains to his Rev 19 coming, not his coming to resurrect the dead in him. Revelation is fulfilled chronologically as written. You can't just mix up the chapters and put them wherever you want.

Here is a list of which verses pertain to his 7th trumpet return and his Rev 19 return:

Return at Seventh Trumpet ..........................Return at Armageddon

Is.26:19-21....................................................... Zech.14:4

Mt.24:30,31 ......................................................Mal.3:1-3

Mt.24:36-39 ......................................................Mt.13:29,30

Mt.24:42 ...........................................................Mt.16:27

Mk.13:35-37 ......................................................Mt.24:27

Lu.21:27 ............................................................Mt.25:31

Lu.21:34-36 .......................................................1 Thes.3:13

Acts 1:11 ...........................................................2 Thes.1:7,8

1 Cor.15:52-54 ....................................................2 Thes.2:8

1 Thes.4:16 ........................................................Jude 14

1 Thes.5:3 ..........................................................Rev.16:15

Heb.9:28........................................................... Rev.19:11-21

Rev.1:7

Rev.11:15-18

Rev.12:5

 

[JLB]

2Th 2:1-8 pertains to his Rev 19 coming, not his coming to resurrect the dead in him. Revelation is fulfilled chronologically as written. You can't just mix up the chapters and put them wherever you want.

Here is a list of which verses pertain to his 7th trumpet return and his Rev 19 return:

Return at Seventh Trumpet ..........................Return at Armageddon

Is.26:19-21....................................................... Zech.14:4

Mt.24:30,31 ......................................................Mal.3:1-3

Mt.24:36-39 ......................................................Mt.13:29,30

Mt.24:42 ...........................................................Mt.16:27

Mk.13:35-37 ......................................................Mt.24:27

Lu.21:27 ............................................................Mt.25:31

Lu.21:34-36 .......................................................1 Thes.3:13

Acts 1:11 ...........................................................2 Thes.1:7,8

1 Cor.15:52-54 ....................................................2 Thes.2:8

1 Thes.4:16 ........................................................Jude 14

1 Thes.5:3 ..........................................................Rev.16:15

Heb.9:28........................................................... Rev.19:11-21

Rev.1:7

Rev.11:15-18

Rev.12:5

You have posted no scripture at all.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

So are you saying that anyone that died as a martyr such as Stephen, Peter, etc., did so because they gave place to Satan? I think not. He can take our life any time Yahweh allows it. Yahweh will allow the majority of believers to be killed during the Great Tribulation. There is no secret rapture that will save them.

Sorry It took so long, had tablet all day and tablet is not the best thing to post on forums with.

I am not sure what to tell you with the foundation you have. God is not on Satans side, and the Kingdoms are not divided. There is no place in scripture God turned Satan loose on someone that obeyed and served him, and did everything according to the Word. A person must give the enemy a place, it's not up to God.

So what happens if we refuse to be delivered, like Stephen? Or Paul who said it's time I must offer myself? What Elihu say to Job who blamed God through how many chapters?

I am saddened by what they teach about our great Father in Heaven in today's dead and dry churches. My hope is you find out why Jesus came, what He did, and just who you are. This is not the place to go through all the basics.

Blessings.

 

[jocor]

My hope is you find out why Jesus came, what He did, and just who you are. This is not the place to go through all the basics.

Blessings.

Your self-exaltation kills me.

 

[Brother Mike]

Your self-exaltation kills me.

Not knowing may just actually get you killed. All things that pertain to your life comes from the knowledge of him.

Had someone told me that nothing can hurt me because of Jesus, it certainly would invoked my ears to hear.

 

[jocor]

Believers in Messiah Yeshua get hurt many times; physically, mentally, spiritually and any other way possible. We are not immune from hurt or the first death just because we believe.

 

[n2thelight]

Brother Mike

Scripture says it's 144,000 people of Jewish descent who are clean get the seal on their forehead. The creatures coming from the smoking pit can't hurt them, but hurt everyone else.

Where in scripture does it say these are of Jewish descent?

Revelation 7:4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Is'-ra-el."

This seal has nothing to do with going to heaven; but it is the full knowledge of How to stand against the wiles of Satan the Antichrist. This has to take place before the "son of perdition" [Satan] sets his feet on this earth as the Antichrist. You will know how to identify Satan, from the true Christ, or you will be deceived by the Antichrist and become part of his system. Satan is that good, and the Word of God declares it before the fact.

This sealing will be marked in the minds of God's elect in all the tribes of Israel. If you believe this is referring only to the Jews, then you are far off base. The "House of Israel" comprise ten of the twelve tribes, and they were scattered long ago. We know them today as the Christian nations of the Americas, Western Europe, and wherever else they migrated to, and now exist. The book of Hosea details this fact for us.

Two things will happen in the end,you will either have the seal of God,or the mark of the beast....

 

[n2thelight]

Sorry It took so long, had tablet all day and tablet is not the best thing to post on forums with.

I am not sure what to tell you with the foundation you have. God is not on Satans side, and the Kingdoms are not divided. There is no place in scripture God turned Satan loose on someone that obeyed and served him, and did everything according to the Word. A person must give the enemy a place, it's not up to God.

So what happens if we refuse to be delivered, like Stephen? Or Paul who said it's time I must offer myself? What Elihu say to Job who blamed God through how many chapters?

I am saddened by what they teach about our great Father in Heaven in today's dead and dry churches. My hope is you find out why Jesus came, what He did, and just who you are. This is not the place to go through all the basics.

Blessings.

Christians in the end should want to be delivered,for that is the time when true tongues shall be spoken again,as that is the time when the Holy Spirit will speak through us...I can't wait,ready and willing........

Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."


Acts 2:16:
"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"

We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. These sons and daughters shall speak in a cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6; meaning that the language that they shall speak in will need no interpreter, for every one that hears will hear in their native tongue of the dialect of the neighborhood they grew up in. This is the way that the gospel will go forth in the last days, for it is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These sons and daughters will speak, as stated in Mark 13:11, but whatsoever words they do speak in that hour, it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them.


Acts 2:17
"And it shall come to pass in the last days,' saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and you old men shall dream dreams:"


Acts 2:18
"And on My servants and on My handmaidens I will pour out in those days of My Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"


Acts 2:19
"And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:"


Acts 2:20
"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:"


Acts 2:21
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' "


When the sons and daughter speak, it will be heard in every language and dialect in the world. This will not come from the mind of those people, but those people shall be willing witnesses that allow God to speak directly through them to the people. Thus the true gospel of Christ will be spoken. These trials will be made public to the world, and it will be as the two churches of Revelation 2:9; and 3:9 taught, and it is important that you know exactly what they did teach.

 

[JLB]

Did not the Lord appear to Abraham?
Did not Jacob wrestle with the Lord for a blessing?
Did not the Lord appear before Moses in a burning bush?
Was not the Lord with them as they wandered in the wilderness?
Did not the Lord appear in the midst of the children in the fiery furnace?

Who are you to declare that the Lord shall only appear twice?
How many time did he appear to the disciples after that he was risen?

The context is clear:

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

Christ the Man, lived here on earth among the people the first time to take on the sin of the world... He will appear a second time...


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Mike

Scripture says it's 144,000 people of Jewish descent who are clean get the seal on their forehead. The creatures coming from the smoking pit can't hurt them, but hurt everyone else.

Where in scripture does it say these are of Jewish descent?

Revelation 7:4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Is'-ra-el."

This seal has nothing to do with going to heaven; but it is the full knowledge of How to stand against the wiles of Satan the Antichrist. This has to take place before the "son of perdition" [Satan] sets his feet on this earth as the Antichrist. You will know how to identify Satan, from the true Christ, or you will be deceived by the Antichrist and become part of his system. Satan is that good, and the Word of God declares it before the fact.

This sealing will be marked in the minds of God's elect in all the tribes of Israel. If you believe this is referring only to the Jews, then you are far off base. The "House of Israel" comprise ten of the twelve tribes, and they were scattered long ago. We know them today as the Christian nations of the Americas, Western Europe, and wherever else they migrated to, and now exist. The book of Hosea details this fact for us.

Two things will happen in the end,you will either have the seal of God,or the mark of the beast....

Your right. Just said tribes, not Jewish . Thank you for the correction. As for wanting to be delivered because of true tongues, then I never heard a pretrib position for that reason. It would be a great gift to have as Paul did call it praying. Any extra tools from the Holy Spirit would always be extremely helpful to us.

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Mike

Scripture says it's 144,000 people of Jewish descent who are clean get the seal on their forehead. The creatures coming from the smoking pit can't hurt them, but hurt everyone else.

Where in scripture does it say these are of Jewish descent?

Revelation 7:4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Is'-ra-el."

This seal has nothing to do with going to heaven; but it is the full knowledge of How to stand against the wiles of Satan the Antichrist. This has to take place before the "son of perdition" [Satan] sets his feet on this earth as the Antichrist. You will know how to identify Satan, from the true Christ, or you will be deceived by the Antichrist and become part of his system. Satan is that good, and the Word of God declares it before the fact.

This sealing will be marked in the minds of God's elect in all the tribes of Israel. If you believe this is referring only to the Jews, then you are far off base. The "House of Israel" comprise ten of the twelve tribes, and they were scattered long ago. We know them today as the Christian nations of the Americas, Western Europe, and wherever else they migrated to, and now exist. The book of Hosea details this fact for us.

Two things will happen in the end,you will either have the seal of God,or the mark of the beast....

Your right. Just said tribes, not Jewish . Thank you for the correction. As for wanting to be delivered because of true tongues, then I never heard a pretrib position for that reason. It would be a great gift to have as Paul did call it praying. Any extra tools from the Holy Spirit would always be extremely helpful to us.

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Mike

Scripture says it's 144,000 people of Jewish descent who are clean get the seal on their forehead. The creatures coming from the smoking pit can't hurt them, but hurt everyone else.

Where in scripture does it say these are of Jewish descent?

Revelation 7:4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Is'-ra-el."

This seal has nothing to do with going to heaven; but it is the full knowledge of How to stand against the wiles of Satan the Antichrist. This has to take place before the "son of perdition" [Satan] sets his feet on this earth as the Antichrist. You will know how to identify Satan, from the true Christ, or you will be deceived by the Antichrist and become part of his system. Satan is that good, and the Word of God declares it before the fact.

This sealing will be marked in the minds of God's elect in all the tribes of Israel. If you believe this is referring only to the Jews, then you are far off base. The "House of Israel" comprise ten of the twelve tribes, and they were scattered long ago. We know them today as the Christian nations of the Americas, Western Europe, and wherever else they migrated to, and now exist. The book of Hosea details this fact for us.

Two things will happen in the end,you will either have the seal of God,or the mark of the beast....

Your right. Just said tribes, not Jewish . Thank you for the correction. As for wanting to be delivered because of true tongues, then I never heard a pretrib position for that reason. It would be a great gift to have as Paul did call it praying. Any extra tools from the Holy Spirit would always be extremely helpful to us.

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Mike

Scripture says it's 144,000 people of Jewish descent who are clean get the seal on their forehead. The creatures coming from the smoking pit can't hurt them, but hurt everyone else.

Where in scripture does it say these are of Jewish descent?

Revelation 7:4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Is'-ra-el."

This seal has nothing to do with going to heaven; but it is the full knowledge of How to stand against the wiles of Satan the Antichrist. This has to take place before the "son of perdition" [Satan] sets his feet on this earth as the Antichrist. You will know how to identify Satan, from the true Christ, or you will be deceived by the Antichrist and become part of his system. Satan is that good, and the Word of God declares it before the fact.

This sealing will be marked in the minds of God's elect in all the tribes of Israel. If you believe this is referring only to the Jews, then you are far off base. The "House of Israel" comprise ten of the twelve tribes, and they were scattered long ago. We know them today as the Christian nations of the Americas, Western Europe, and wherever else they migrated to, and now exist. The book of Hosea details this fact for us.

Two things will happen in the end,you will either have the seal of God,or the mark of the beast....

Your right. Just said tribes, not Jewish . Thank you for the correction. As for wanting to be delivered because of true tongues, then I never heard a pretrib position for that reason. It would be a great gift to have as Paul did call it praying. Any extra tools from the Holy Spirit would always be extremely helpful to us.

 

[Kathi]

Daniels 490 years

 

[jocor]

Daniels 490 years

The dates on this chart are wrong. He starts with 445 BC (bottom left). He then adds 483 years and arrives at 32 AD. 483-445=38 AD. However, there is no year zero, so we need to add 1 year. That gives us 39 AD.

He also starts the "7x7=49 years" at 457 BC, but below that it says it is 445 BC.

 

[Just a servant]

You can't go wrong quoting only scripture and allowing the Holy Spirit to bring it to fruition.

That is true, but you might not know how. Many people play Scriptural origami like that. The heart is wickedly deceitful and the Word must be considered as a whole.


Temptation of Christ.

But the Holy Spirit still uses this to teach us lessons.

 

[Brother Mike]

Daniels 490 years

Chart looks good enough for me.

 

[Just a servant]

That chart is incorrect I am not even going to get into the numbers. Do you know how unbelievably poisonous it is to believe we can be justified by anything we do? "Missed the grace period" "justified by works?" Being beheaded for the sake of the Gospel does not secure salvation. It secures your PLACE in the Kingdom of God. Salvation is dependent on the blood of Jesus and ONLY the blood of Jesus. It is a free gift, and can not be received any other way. Do not be deceived.

Believing you can be saved by what YOU do is the single most dangerous belief there is. That is the mark of every false religion. Every person who is not in Christ, even atheistic humanists, tries to be justified by what their wickedly deceitful heart tells them to do.