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Ten reasons why every believer should speak in tongues
- Thread starter golfjack
- Start date
S
Silverchild79
Guest
tim_from_pa said:
Gross, nobody puts cheese on blueberry pie man!
Hugo
Member
I once believed as the UPC (United Pentecostal Church) does; that 'tongues' are the initial evidence of conversion, and one cannot claim to have the Spirit without it.
I believed this for a time because the Pentecostal position was much more logical and sound than the mainline Protestant teaching I had received. Most of the Church does not realize the significance of Pentecost and how paramount the Spirit is to the new covenant. We now serve in the new way of the Spirit, as Paul put it.
However, I now realize that 'speaking in tongues' is not unintelligible talk, language of angels, etc. What has happened is that the phrase has been redefined as such. I think some of this is due to some translation issues, and some to pagan influences.
I believed this for a time because the Pentecostal position was much more logical and sound than the mainline Protestant teaching I had received. Most of the Church does not realize the significance of Pentecost and how paramount the Spirit is to the new covenant. We now serve in the new way of the Spirit, as Paul put it.
However, I now realize that 'speaking in tongues' is not unintelligible talk, language of angels, etc. What has happened is that the phrase has been redefined as such. I think some of this is due to some translation issues, and some to pagan influences.
I
Imagican
Guest
Good one Hugo. Isn't it amazing what The Spirit CAN do compared with the meager understanding of man? And you ARE absolutely RIGHT. IF pagan is ANYTHING other than 'the truth' so far as 'religion' is concerned, this 'new age' tongues is CERTAINLY able to be considered JUST THAT.
I am NO MORE able to discern the heart of another ANYMORE than ANY other human being. 'BUT', I am CERTAINLY able to discern The Spirit from 'other spirits'. The RULES of tongues were established IN THE WORD by Paul. He PLAINLY offered what one MUST observe in order for 'tongues to EVEN exist'. ANY OTHER USE of 'tongues' is NOT the 'true tongues' that ARE mentioned in The Word. Like it or NOT, the 'truth IS the truth' and ANYTHING that 'goes against it' is NOT.
I HAVE PERSONALLY witnessed 'groups' speaking in tongues AT THE SAME TIME. This, my friends, is NOT 'true tongues'. CAN'T be, for we HAVE the 'truth' as outlined BY PAUL. I have PERSONALLY witnessed 'tongues' being used WITHOUT an interpreter. This TOO, my friends, IS IMPOSSIBLE. For the only TIME that one is ABLE to speak in tongues IN THE CHURCH is WHEN THERE IS AN INTERPRETER PRESENT. I have PERSONALLY WITNESSED WOMEN speaking tongues in THE CHURCH. This TOO, my friends, is TOTALLY contradictory to what Paul TRIED to TELL people. They HAVE been warned and that they continue to ignore what has been offered IN THE WORD speaks volumes as to WHAT is MOST important to THEM.
Regardless of what one has 'been TAUGHT' and regardless of what one CHOOSES to 'believe', there is ONLY ONE TRUTH. And this HAS been outlined, concerning tongues, BY PAUL. Do you 'believe' what Paul offered concerning 'tongues'? If not, then you and I would certainly have a 'difficult time' in regards to our 'beliefs'. For Paul CERTAINLY had MORE understanding than myself or ANYONE THAT I HAVE EVER MET. And HIS understanding was OBVIOUSLY NOT HIS OWN. For the FEW times that he offered PERSONAL opinion, he MADE THAT CLEAR.
So, IF there are tongues that STILL exist, I have CERTAINLY NOT been witness to these.
There MUST be an interpreter, there MUST NOT be more than than THREE in one gathering and BY COURSE, (one AT A TIME). TONGUES are for UNBELIEVERS, NOT for those that believe BUT those that BELIEVE NOT. And women ARE TO REMAIN SILENT in The Church. Got a problem with these? If so, I'd CERTAINLY like to hear an argument BASED ON THE WORD that contradicts what has been offered here.
MEC
I am NO MORE able to discern the heart of another ANYMORE than ANY other human being. 'BUT', I am CERTAINLY able to discern The Spirit from 'other spirits'. The RULES of tongues were established IN THE WORD by Paul. He PLAINLY offered what one MUST observe in order for 'tongues to EVEN exist'. ANY OTHER USE of 'tongues' is NOT the 'true tongues' that ARE mentioned in The Word. Like it or NOT, the 'truth IS the truth' and ANYTHING that 'goes against it' is NOT.
I HAVE PERSONALLY witnessed 'groups' speaking in tongues AT THE SAME TIME. This, my friends, is NOT 'true tongues'. CAN'T be, for we HAVE the 'truth' as outlined BY PAUL. I have PERSONALLY witnessed 'tongues' being used WITHOUT an interpreter. This TOO, my friends, IS IMPOSSIBLE. For the only TIME that one is ABLE to speak in tongues IN THE CHURCH is WHEN THERE IS AN INTERPRETER PRESENT. I have PERSONALLY WITNESSED WOMEN speaking tongues in THE CHURCH. This TOO, my friends, is TOTALLY contradictory to what Paul TRIED to TELL people. They HAVE been warned and that they continue to ignore what has been offered IN THE WORD speaks volumes as to WHAT is MOST important to THEM.
Regardless of what one has 'been TAUGHT' and regardless of what one CHOOSES to 'believe', there is ONLY ONE TRUTH. And this HAS been outlined, concerning tongues, BY PAUL. Do you 'believe' what Paul offered concerning 'tongues'? If not, then you and I would certainly have a 'difficult time' in regards to our 'beliefs'. For Paul CERTAINLY had MORE understanding than myself or ANYONE THAT I HAVE EVER MET. And HIS understanding was OBVIOUSLY NOT HIS OWN. For the FEW times that he offered PERSONAL opinion, he MADE THAT CLEAR.
So, IF there are tongues that STILL exist, I have CERTAINLY NOT been witness to these.
There MUST be an interpreter, there MUST NOT be more than than THREE in one gathering and BY COURSE, (one AT A TIME). TONGUES are for UNBELIEVERS, NOT for those that believe BUT those that BELIEVE NOT. And women ARE TO REMAIN SILENT in The Church. Got a problem with these? If so, I'd CERTAINLY like to hear an argument BASED ON THE WORD that contradicts what has been offered here.
MEC
I
Imagican
Guest
golf,
As far as I can discern, NO. If we are both referring to 'Jesus of Later day Saints', these folks are a 'BIT' confused. Are there Mormons that are SAVED? I don't KNOW. And it's really NOT UP TO ME to discern this. But that MUCH Of their 'teachings' and 'beliefs' are a 'bit askew'? of this there is LITTLE doubt to those that DO understand 'The Truth'. If left 'up to me', I would certainly offer them 'fair warning' of exactly 'what' they place 'their faith' in.
And let me add this: Regardless of HOW devout one is, it is not their adherence to a 'religion' that offers truth and salvation. It is an adherence to TRUTH and LOVE that is ONLY able to offer the 'gift' that we all desire. And HOW do you suppose we are to FIND this truth and love? In a 'man-made' church? In 'man-made' doctrine? Through the 'words' offered out of the 'mouth' of one that is UNrighteous? I'll leave this one up to YOU to discern.
Now, I have offered scripture that STATES that Jesus WAS 'created'. Whether there are those that will DENY this? I can't control what one accepts of scripture OR denies. It is NOT within my ability to 'make' ANYONE accept scripture AS OFFERED. All I am ABLE to DO is offer the scripture ITSELF. It's up to the individual to allow The Spirit to 'guide' them TO the TRUTH.
I KNOW what the 'churches' teach. And I KNOW that the 'churches' have 'saved' NO ONE. Worshiping a 'pastor' or a 'church' will NOT please God NOR will this type of 'faith' bring one ANYTHING other than 'someone ELSES' understanding. Beware of WHO or WHAT you choose to offer your 'faith'. For YOUR faith IS your OWN. And when one chooses to place it in the 'hands' of 'another HUMAN BEING' their reward is the 'same' as that in which they place it.
I notice that EVERYONE that has offered replies to my posts have COMPLETELY ignored MOST of them that directly state those 'things' that ARE directly in OPPOSITION from that which they 'choose' to believe. Why is that? If I offer scripture that STATES that Jesus was 'MADE', why is it that those that do NOT believe this would REFUSE to even offer their REASON for denying what is offered?
And this thread is concerning 'tongues' ISN'T it?
So, what else can I say? Either one DOES believe what has been offered, or they simply choose to follow what they receive from 'another source'. And I, for one, KNOW that The Word is at our disposal for the exact purpose of UNDERSTANDING. Either one reads, accepts, and BELIEVES what it offers, OR, they choose to follow 'something' or 'someONE' else.
MEC
As far as I can discern, NO. If we are both referring to 'Jesus of Later day Saints', these folks are a 'BIT' confused. Are there Mormons that are SAVED? I don't KNOW. And it's really NOT UP TO ME to discern this. But that MUCH Of their 'teachings' and 'beliefs' are a 'bit askew'? of this there is LITTLE doubt to those that DO understand 'The Truth'. If left 'up to me', I would certainly offer them 'fair warning' of exactly 'what' they place 'their faith' in.
And let me add this: Regardless of HOW devout one is, it is not their adherence to a 'religion' that offers truth and salvation. It is an adherence to TRUTH and LOVE that is ONLY able to offer the 'gift' that we all desire. And HOW do you suppose we are to FIND this truth and love? In a 'man-made' church? In 'man-made' doctrine? Through the 'words' offered out of the 'mouth' of one that is UNrighteous? I'll leave this one up to YOU to discern.
Now, I have offered scripture that STATES that Jesus WAS 'created'. Whether there are those that will DENY this? I can't control what one accepts of scripture OR denies. It is NOT within my ability to 'make' ANYONE accept scripture AS OFFERED. All I am ABLE to DO is offer the scripture ITSELF. It's up to the individual to allow The Spirit to 'guide' them TO the TRUTH.
I KNOW what the 'churches' teach. And I KNOW that the 'churches' have 'saved' NO ONE. Worshiping a 'pastor' or a 'church' will NOT please God NOR will this type of 'faith' bring one ANYTHING other than 'someone ELSES' understanding. Beware of WHO or WHAT you choose to offer your 'faith'. For YOUR faith IS your OWN. And when one chooses to place it in the 'hands' of 'another HUMAN BEING' their reward is the 'same' as that in which they place it.
I notice that EVERYONE that has offered replies to my posts have COMPLETELY ignored MOST of them that directly state those 'things' that ARE directly in OPPOSITION from that which they 'choose' to believe. Why is that? If I offer scripture that STATES that Jesus was 'MADE', why is it that those that do NOT believe this would REFUSE to even offer their REASON for denying what is offered?
And this thread is concerning 'tongues' ISN'T it?
So, what else can I say? Either one DOES believe what has been offered, or they simply choose to follow what they receive from 'another source'. And I, for one, KNOW that The Word is at our disposal for the exact purpose of UNDERSTANDING. Either one reads, accepts, and BELIEVES what it offers, OR, they choose to follow 'something' or 'someONE' else.
MEC
General comment . . .
A few years ago I was at an AA meeting and heard a seemly poor and reformed alcoholic pray for someone. He firstly prayed in tongues and then in a language I understood. I have never heard anyone pray like that man did - ever. He was like a Psalmist (at least how I would imagine a Psalmist to be like) and his prayer was totally different to what I had been accustomed to or ever heard. I would be a fool to suggest that this man was somehow counterfeit His prayer made everyother pray I have ever heard seem counterfeit - though I have many suspicions about every other instance of speaking in tongues that I have witnessed. So apart from this one instance and indeed without it I too would be sceptical - while still treasuring/guarding that which has been my experience in entering His rest.
A few years ago I was at an AA meeting and heard a seemly poor and reformed alcoholic pray for someone. He firstly prayed in tongues and then in a language I understood. I have never heard anyone pray like that man did - ever. He was like a Psalmist (at least how I would imagine a Psalmist to be like) and his prayer was totally different to what I had been accustomed to or ever heard. I would be a fool to suggest that this man was somehow counterfeit His prayer made everyother pray I have ever heard seem counterfeit - though I have many suspicions about every other instance of speaking in tongues that I have witnessed. So apart from this one instance and indeed without it I too would be sceptical - while still treasuring/guarding that which has been my experience in entering His rest.
I well remember the time that I was born of the Spirit of God. I was by myself in my bedroom at a point in my life that I knew God had appointed. As I cried out to the Lord in my need I said, “Lord if this gift (of tongues) is of you, and it is for me, I ask you to give it to me.†I can’t explain fully what happened next but I found myself speaking to God in a tongue that I didn’t understand. A sense of awe came over me as I realized that my spirit was in direct communion with Him, uttering things impossible for me to know or comprehend.
From that point on I have never questioned the legitimacy of the gift as far as what had been given me is concerned.
From that point on I have never questioned the legitimacy of the gift as far as what had been given me is concerned.
D
dancing queen
Guest
mutzrein and stranger, thank you for sharing your experience with/of this gift. I found reading your accounts a blessing and encouraging for reasons I can't find words to explain.
I
Imagican
Guest
And Golf,
Talk about CONTRADICTION of The Word. I JUST realized what the title of this thread REALLY says. TOTAL CONTRADICTION.
For one can ONLY speak in tongues AS The Spirit GIVES utterance. And tongues ARE a 'gift'. And a 'gift' IS given by the giver AS He SEES fit. And ALL members of The Body DO NOT recieve ALL the gifts. Paul even explains that SOME are gifted with SOME gifts while others MAY NOT be given identical gifts. EACH has thier OWN 'place' in The Body.
With these things in mind EVERY member of The Body is NOT CAPABLE of speaking tongues EXCEPT as The Spirit GIVES utterance. And when we consider that tongues are 'for a sign' and cannot be used IN THE CHURCH without an interpreter, WHY would God NEED to 'give this gift' to ALL of The Body's members?
Look Golf, and ANYONE that has been SO misled. Tongues are NOT a 'game'. They are NOT for 'self-edification' IN THE CHURCH. They are NOT true 'tongues' UNLESS they conform to the RULES set down BY Paul, AN APOSTLE of Jesus Christ. So, that 'crap' that takes place in 'some churches' where a 'bunch' of people stand up and start mumbling, (or YELLING out), gibberish IS NOT BIBLICAL. It's ANYTHING BUT Biblical. As a matter of fact, if you ever get a chance to witness a 'Satanic Ritual', you will find that this is 'their form' or worship. For Satan is the one that mocks God and uses his spirit to Mimic The Spirit, thus offering the same 'feelings' in services of worship. And I don't KNOW that it's even the 'same' feeling. Satan can PROBABLY offer a MORE pleasurable feeling when one worships HIM than that which God Himself would offer. For IF you 'truly' believe in God, you wouldn't be swaying around in ecsatasy when in His presence. YOU WOULD BE BOWING IN FEAR. BEGGING Him for Forgiveness. Begging Him for strength to BATTLE the enemy. Begging Him for MERCY. Thanking Him and Jesus for offering life instead of death. Self edification, (little warm fuzzies), do NOT a 'Christian make', EXCEPT IN NAME ONLY.
MEC
Talk about CONTRADICTION of The Word. I JUST realized what the title of this thread REALLY says. TOTAL CONTRADICTION.
For one can ONLY speak in tongues AS The Spirit GIVES utterance. And tongues ARE a 'gift'. And a 'gift' IS given by the giver AS He SEES fit. And ALL members of The Body DO NOT recieve ALL the gifts. Paul even explains that SOME are gifted with SOME gifts while others MAY NOT be given identical gifts. EACH has thier OWN 'place' in The Body.
With these things in mind EVERY member of The Body is NOT CAPABLE of speaking tongues EXCEPT as The Spirit GIVES utterance. And when we consider that tongues are 'for a sign' and cannot be used IN THE CHURCH without an interpreter, WHY would God NEED to 'give this gift' to ALL of The Body's members?
Look Golf, and ANYONE that has been SO misled. Tongues are NOT a 'game'. They are NOT for 'self-edification' IN THE CHURCH. They are NOT true 'tongues' UNLESS they conform to the RULES set down BY Paul, AN APOSTLE of Jesus Christ. So, that 'crap' that takes place in 'some churches' where a 'bunch' of people stand up and start mumbling, (or YELLING out), gibberish IS NOT BIBLICAL. It's ANYTHING BUT Biblical. As a matter of fact, if you ever get a chance to witness a 'Satanic Ritual', you will find that this is 'their form' or worship. For Satan is the one that mocks God and uses his spirit to Mimic The Spirit, thus offering the same 'feelings' in services of worship. And I don't KNOW that it's even the 'same' feeling. Satan can PROBABLY offer a MORE pleasurable feeling when one worships HIM than that which God Himself would offer. For IF you 'truly' believe in God, you wouldn't be swaying around in ecsatasy when in His presence. YOU WOULD BE BOWING IN FEAR. BEGGING Him for Forgiveness. Begging Him for strength to BATTLE the enemy. Begging Him for MERCY. Thanking Him and Jesus for offering life instead of death. Self edification, (little warm fuzzies), do NOT a 'Christian make', EXCEPT IN NAME ONLY.
MEC
Gabbylittleangel
Member
AVBunyan said:
1Cr 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
divers kinds of tongues. = Different kinds of tongues. Each with a different purpose.
I
Imagican
Guest
mutzrein said:
Mutz,
Read it for yourself. In a WHOLE chapter in which Paul tries to EXPLAIN to a people that are MISTAKEN about tongues, He plainly states that; 'he utters mysteries with 'his spirit'. NOTICE; 'his spirit'!! NOT as THE Spirit gives utterance' but speaking mysteries through HIS OWN spirit.
Paul could NOT simply TELL them that they WERE WRONG. He needed for them to UNDERSTAND what they were doing and Why. To simply TELL them what they were doing was wrong would have served NO PURPOSE in 'understanding'. He didn't simply want them to STOP doing what they were doing, he WANTED THEM TO UNDERSTAND WHY it was WRONG.
So many have tried for SO LONG now to use the words that Paul gave us that EXPLAIN the proper use of tongues to try and JUSTIFY their 'misuse of tongues' in TOTAL ignorance of the understanding that Paul attempted to offer. Paul is NOT encouraging tongues. NEVER. He states to 'forbid NOT to speak in tongues'. He ALSO states that there is NOTHING that we should JUDGE others by. That IF someone EATS meat sacrificed to IDOLS that we are NOT to 'judge them' in this behavior. It's NO different with tongues. Forbid NOT. Isn't this the SAME as saying; 'DO NOT JUDGE THEM THAT DO'? But, SEEK AFTER those GIFTS that matter MOST. It's NOT about what we are 'supposed to DO', it's about UNDERSTANDING that which we DO do.
MEC
1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:Gabbylittleangel said:
Are you a believer – tongues are not for you - They were directed to those (unbelieving Jewes during Acts) who did not believe…
Look at the verse before:
1 Cor 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Folks – you can allegorize and spiritualize but the verses are clear – Tongues were a sign of judgment to unbelieving Israel in Acts.
This scenario is not going on today - What is going on today are folks are taking what wasmeant for Israel in early Acts and applying them to themselves today because it feels good.
D
dancing queen
Guest
But it says his spirit speaks to God. Why is this not ok?
I get the not having a church full of people just speaking in tongues with no interpretation but as I read it God provided a way for your spirit to speak directly to Him (if he grants you the gift that is). I can't find any scripture against this form of prayer, but will stand corrected if you can find some to show me?
I get the not having a church full of people just speaking in tongues with no interpretation but as I read it God provided a way for your spirit to speak directly to Him (if he grants you the gift that is). I can't find any scripture against this form of prayer, but will stand corrected if you can find some to show me?
Vic C.
Member
MEC, Guibox, Christine and others... I think your commentaries say a lot on this subject.
AV brother...
I doubt I will ever become a "hardcore" dispensationalist, but... one must understand that God deals with Israel as a nation differently then HE deals with us both individually and as a ekklesia. Currently, I see this error in the latter day rain movement, a prophecy that, in the OT, was clearly meant for Israel (and mostly fulfilled in early Acts, IMO), but is applied to the Church today. :-?
HI Gabby... if you (and AV) will allow me to offer up an alternative translation to this...
(LITV) 10 and to another, workings of powers, and to another, prophecy, and to another, discerning of spirits, and to another, kinds of languages, and to another, interpretation of languages.
AV brother...
Amen! I, when I first started studying the Word, I was not too keen on any degree of dispensation, despite Jason's prodding... LOL. As I continue in my studies, I now see that a truely proper, rightful division of God's word becomes key in understanding many passages and prophecies.AVBunyan said:
I doubt I will ever become a "hardcore" dispensationalist, but... one must understand that God deals with Israel as a nation differently then HE deals with us both individually and as a ekklesia. Currently, I see this error in the latter day rain movement, a prophecy that, in the OT, was clearly meant for Israel (and mostly fulfilled in early Acts, IMO), but is applied to the Church today. :-?
HI Gabby... if you (and AV) will allow me to offer up an alternative translation to this...
(LITV) 10 and to another, workings of powers, and to another, prophecy, and to another, discerning of spirits, and to another, kinds of languages, and to another, interpretation of languages.