The MYTH of condemned men being the ELECT...

[Eventide]

I suppose that if we were all Calvinists then we'd be Amillennial, and imo it doesn't get any more incorrect than that.

 

[ivdavid]

I suppose that if we were all Calvinists then we'd be Amillennial,...

I don't know much about millenialism - so could you elaborate on how the above two must necessarily go together. I don't have a stand on this at all, but I'd like to know how these two are necessarily correlated. I think Charles Spurgeon believed in premillenialism(I may be wrong).

Again, this is not to debate eschatology but to understand your belief on this.

 

[Eventide]

I don't know much about millenialism - so could you elaborate on how the above two must necessarily go together. I don't have a stand on this at all, but I'd like to know how these two are necessarily correlated. I think Charles Spurgeon believed in premillenialism(I may be wrong).

Again, this is not to debate eschatology but to understand your belief on this.

Have you ever visited some of the sites of Calvinists.. I would guestimate that 75% of them are Amillennial.. probably more like 90%..

 

[childeye]

Have you ever visited some of the sites of Calvinists.. I would guestimate that 75% of them are Amillennial.. probably more like 90%..

What is the difference between the elect of God will believe in Christ and believers in Christ are then elect, assuming when I say believers, they truly are disciples? How is it that some see and some are blinded by the Gospel? What is God's purpose in having Paul use the word election when he says according to election and not by works?

 

[Hitch]

What is the difference between the elect of God will believe in Christ and believers in Christ are then elect, assuming when I say believers, they truly are disciples? How is it that some see and some are blinded by the Gospel? What is God's purpose in having Paul use the word election when he says according to election and not by works?

The difference is fabulously simple. God has a great big eternity, and either He decides who will share it with Him or men make that decision.

 

[Eventide]

What is the difference between the elect of God will believe in Christ and believers in Christ are then elect, assuming when I say believers, they truly are disciples?

Well, for starters do you believe that election is conditional or unconditional... and what would be the basis for your belief.

How is it that some see and some are blinded by the Gospel? What is God's purpose in having Paul use the word election when he says according to election and not by works?

If you're speaking about Israel.. we're told why many were blinded.. because they sought after their own righteousness and not the righteousness which is by faith.

Elect means chosen.. so again, does God choose conditionally or unconditionally..?

 

[Eventide]

How many here actually have been led to believe that God chose YOU unconditionally..

 

[Eventide]

I suppose that when people actually start examining unconditional election closely.. they begin to see how unbiblical it is.. good for them.

 

[Eventide]

Yeah, even though it's not popular in Christian forums.. the doctrine of election needs to be centered upon the glory and majesty of the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Yeah, even though it's not popular in Christian forums.. the doctrine of election needs to be centered upon the glory and majesty of the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone..

Its impossible to be centered on Him alone, election that is, because He is in Union with His body, the Church, they are One..

 

[Eventide]

Its impossible to be centered on Him alone..

For those who have been taught that they're the elect along with the infinitely glorious Lord Jesus Christ.. yes, it's impossible...

 

[Eventide]

Its impossible to be centered on Him alone, election that is, because He is in Union with His body, the Church, they are One..

And because the Lord Jesus Christ alone is the elect.. anyone who is IN CHRIST is the elect because they're a member of HIS BODY.. unless of course people are led to believe that God choose them in the same way that He chose His only begotten Son in whom He delights.. although that's just silly if you think about it for about 2 seconds.

This is why Paul calls Christians to put off the old man who IS corrupt according to deceitful lusts.. (that's us) and to put on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[savedbygrace57]

even:

And because the Lord Jesus Christ alone is the elect

Thats impossible, Christ is the elect because He is the Head of A people that are elect.

 

[Eventide]

even:Thats impossible, Christ is the elect because He is the Head of A people that are elect.

Of course it's impossible for those who have been taught that God chose them as along with His only begotten and Beloved Son in whom He delights.. many in Christendom are taught that God chose them when the scriptures plainly declare that if we shall seek to save our life we shall lose it.. and that if any man shall come after Him that they must DENY THEMSELVES, take up their cross and follow Him..

Not very popular of course.. people would much rather talk about how they're the elect along with God's Son.. now that's a big seller !

 

[savedbygrace57]

even:

Of course it's impossible

Thats like saying Adam could be Adam without Eve lol..Gen 5:

2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 

[childeye]

I've read some of this thread, being interested in the cause of eventides angst. I perceive semantics at play. For eventide says the elect is Christ pertaining to the body of believers, while the "Calvinists" say the elect are the body of believers pertaining to the Christ. I've been known to be slow of mind compared to some here, but it seems to me like you all are saying the same thing from opposite perspectives of the One Truth. I would ask Eventide, what's the difference between a man choosing God and God choosing man? Moreover, what power in man exists that would choose God? Conversely, what power in man would not choose God? What does the scriptures say regarding this?

 

[Eventide]

yeah, as if there's no difference at all between Calvinist UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION and CONDITIONAL ELECTION..

It's all just a matter of semantics..

 

[RoadDebris]

So unconditional election is false at its basis.. because ALL election is conditional upon being IN CHRIST, and every member of the first Adam MAY be justified freely by placing their faith and trust in the Last Adam, and thereby becoming the elect of God... and God, who alone judges true faith and repentance, baptizes them into the body of Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.. and they are new creatures IN HIM, in Christ.

Not according to the Bible. The Holy Spirit, through Paul, claims the saved perform no action whatsoever to effect their salvation.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. - Eph. 2:8-9

That would include "placing."

 

[Eventide]

Not according to the Bible.

Maybe not according to the Calvin bible.. no.. you're right.

The Holy Spirit, through Paul, claims the saved perform no action whatsoever to effect their salvation.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. - Eph. 2:8-9

That would include "placing."

The holy scriptures do teach us exactly why God chose us in Christ.. through belief of the truth and sanctification of the Spirit.. clearly conditional upon being in His Son, the one who is the elect, the chosen one in whom He delights.

 

[RoadDebris]

Maybe not according to the Calvin bible.. no.. you're right.

Again, I ask you is that honest to make that inference? I've never even heard of a "Calvin bible." For the record, I use the NKJ.

The holy scriptures do teach us exactly why God chose us in Christ.. through belief of the truth and sanctification of the Spirit.. clearly conditional upon being in His Son, the one who is the elect, the chosen one in whom He delights.

"Through" is not synonymous with "why." We do receive grace through faith, but as the Holy Spirit, through Paul, makes clear, that faith is a gift from God. If that gift had conditions on it then God would be in our dept when we met those conditions. You may choose to believe that God was required to save you once you did a, b, or c, but the Bible makes it clear that that is not the case.