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The MYTH of condemned men being the ELECT...

RoadDebris said:
Again, I ask you is that honest to make that inference? I've never even heard of a "Calvin bible." For the record, I use the NKJ.
Click to expand...

I was joking... I know that there's no such thing as a Calvin bible.. is that ok, or is that too much for you ?

"Through" is not synonymous with "why." We do receive grace through faith, but as the Holy Spirit, through Paul, makes clear, that faith is a gift from God. If that gift had conditions on it then God would be in our dept when we met those conditions. You may choose to believe that God was required to save you once you did a, b, or c, but the Bible makes it clear that that is not the case.
Click to expand...

Not at all, because HE determined the conditions.. that all election is IN CHRIST and through BELIEF of the truth and SANCTIFICATION of the Spirit..
 
So what are the conditions for a Calvinist to become a Christian..?

There are none... wait for God to do everything.. repentance, faith, trust, denying self.. taking up your cross..

So for the special ones, God takes care of all that..
 
Here's a couple questions you won't see a Calvinist answer very often.. it's usually a strawman to them.. their favorite big word to use when they don't know what else to answer..

If God chose you unconditionally, then why does He tell you that if you seek to save your life that you will lose it.. and that if any man comes after Me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow Me..

Are these verses not applicable to the unconditionaly chosen and enabled ones..?
 
Last answer from a Calvinist was that these are just metaphors... no wonder they all think that God chose them along with His beloved Son..
 
Eventide said:
Here's a couple questions you won't see a Calvinist answer very often.. it's usually a strawman to them.. their favorite big word to use when they don't know what else to answer..

If God chose you unconditionally, then why does He tell you that if you seek to save your life that you will lose it.. and that if any man comes after Me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow Me..

Are these verses not applicable to the unconditionaly chosen and enabled ones..?
Click to expand...

I wonder how many "Calvinists" you've spoken to to even make such a judgement? In my opinion it would be more intellectually honest to preface that statement with "In my experience..."

Your view of this verse is based on the false presupposition that men can save themselves by works. In Luke 9 Jesus teaches his disciples about priorities. People who are saved put Jesus first. This proper prioritisation is not the cause of that salvation, though, and those who claim it is are making the Bible contradict itself. That says it all about what they believe.
 
Eventide said:
Not at all, because HE determined the conditions.. that all election is IN CHRIST and through BELIEF of the truth and SANCTIFICATION of the Spirit..
Click to expand...

If he were subject to conditions then he would be subject to them. There's no way around it. You believe God is in your debt. That's antithetical to the teaching of scripture. God is sovereign.

The Lord has established His throne in the heavens; And His sovereignty rules over all. Psalm 103:19
 
RoadDebris said:
If he were subject to conditions then he would be subject to them. There's no way around it. You believe God is in your debt. That's antithetical to the teaching of scripture. God is sovereign.

The Lord has established His throne in the heavens; And His sovereignty rules over all. Psalm 103:19
Click to expand...

God is not subject to the conditions.. HE made the conditions.. for example..

God chose you through BELIEF OF THE TRUTH and SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT..

Are you going to tell me that these are not literal conditions for God choosing ?

How can that be unconditional.. when the conditions are listed for us in the scriptures..?
 
Eventide said:
God is not subject to the conditions.. HE made the conditions.. for example..

God chose you through BELIEF OF THE TRUTH and SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT..

Are you going to tell me that these are not literal conditions for God choosing ?

How can that be unconditional.. when the conditions are listed for us in the scriptures..?
Click to expand...

God claims he gave me my faith. And sanctification is something that happens after one is saved.
 
RoadDebris said:
God claims he gave me my faith. And sanctification is something that happens after one is saved.
Click to expand...

Now why can't you answer the simple question...

Are the conditions of BELIEVING THE TRUTH and SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT necessary for God choosing or not..?
 
Here's another question which will not get many answers...

How can any man be the elect in light of the simple teaching in Romans...

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
 
As anyone can see, it's basically impossible for Calvinists to answer simple questions when it conflicts with what they've been taught about unconditional election etc..
 
rd:

And sanctification is something that happens after one is saved.
Click to expand...

Actually its the beginning of the subjective salvation experience for the elect, it begins with regeneration, which leads to belief of the Truth..

Titus 3:

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

2 Thess 2:

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This sanctification of the Spirit is the same as the washing and renewing of the Holy Ghost which saved us experimentally..
 
savedbygrace57 said:
This sanctification of the Spirit is the same as the washing and renewing of the Holy Ghost which saved us experimentally..
Click to expand...

So perhaps you can answer the simple question which rd couldn't answer..

Are the conditions of BELIEVING OF THE TRUTH and SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT necessary for God to choose ?
 
Eventide said:
Now why can't you answer the simple question...

Are the conditions of BELIEVING THE TRUTH and SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT necessary for God choosing or not..?
Click to expand...

The only "condition" regarding my salvation is the choice of God.
 
Eventide said:
Here's another question which will not get many answers...

How can any man be the elect in light of the simple teaching in Romans...

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Click to expand...

So you're a universalist now?
 
Eventide said:
So perhaps you can answer the simple question which rd couldn't answer..

Are the conditions of BELIEVING OF THE TRUTH and SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT necessary for God to choose ?
Click to expand...

Faith is a gift from God (see Eph. 2:8-10). Sactification is part of the process that occurs after someone is saved. All saved people agree to be sanctified because God has changed their will to be inclined toward his.
 
RoadDebris said:
Faith is a gift from God (see Eph. 2:8-10). Sactification is part of the process that occurs after someone is saved. All saved people agree to be sanctified because God has changed their will to be inclined toward his.
Click to expand...

That's fine if you believe this.. although I'm simply asking you if God choice is dependent upon what He says in His word or not... that He chose us through believing the truth and sanctification of the Spirit..

So is that a YES for these conditions or a NO ? Is this too difficult for you ?
 
Eventide said:
Why did God choose you ?

Don't you believe the reasons why HE says in His own word..?
Click to expand...


I've already answered this several times. According to the Bible, for his own glory:

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. - Eph. 1:11-14 (emphasis mine).
 
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