The MYTH of condemned men being the ELECT...

[reba]

. . . He has chosen us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.. ? ?

Who is sanctified out side of Christ? no one. Man can not be sanctified out side of Christ. In sinning condition He saved me. I was not sanctified so He would/could save me.


Ever hear the old kids joke about the twin brothers pete and repete? What? pete and repete What?

 

[Eventide]

Who is sanctified out side of Christ? no one. Man can not be sanctified out side of Christ.

No kidding.. and yet Calvinists claim that they are saved UNCONDITIONALLY... as if sanctification doesn't matter, or believing the truth doesn't matter... because those things are called CONDITIONS..

Isn't that what you believe Reba... that God CHOSE YOU UNCONDITIONALLY ?

 

[Hitch]

21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life


Care to explain how this passage has nothing to do with salvation?

The verse here speaks of the resurrection of the dead.. and has nothing to do with God choosing us to salvation through sanctification and belief... because ya know why... even the damned are going to be raised from the dead.. but again, it's impossible for any Calvinist to be correc

 

[Hitch]

No kidding.. and yet Calvinists claim that they are saved UNCONDITIONALLY... as if sanctification doesn't matter, or believing the truth doesn't matter... because those things are called CONDITIONS..

Isn't that what you believe Reba... that God CHOSE YOU UNCONDITIONALLY ?

Gee Even I supposed you have hundreds of quotes from Calvin and Calvinists who teach "sanctification doesn't matter".

Would you share one?

 

[Eventide]

Yeah, unconditional election is just a myth.. who in their right mind would teach others (especially those who are babes in Christ) that God chose them for absolutely no reason at all.. under no conditions at all..

 

[Hitch]

Yeah, unconditional election is just a myth.. who in their right mind would teach others (especially those who are babes in Christ) that God chose them for absolutely no reason at all.. under no conditions at all..

Gee Even I supposed you have hundreds of quotes from Calvin and Calvinists who teach "sanctification doesn't matter".

Would you share one?

 

[reba]

I did nothing to become good enough for salvation.

What did you do for your salvation Even?

 

[Eventide]

I did nothing to become good enough for salvation.

Me neither..

What did you do for your salvation Even?

Exactly what the bible says Reba.. I believed the gospel of God concerning His Son, after I heard it.. and that's when God sealed me with the Holy Spirit and baptized me into the body of His Son..

What happened in your case... did you wake up one day and have Christ in you for no reason you know of ?

 

[reba]

Even your posts reads to me like your salvation depends on you. Depends on you believing.... Why did you believe?

 

[jasoncran]

Even your posts reads to me like your salvation depends on you. Depends on you believing.... Why did you believe?

his position is armenist.meaning that when God drew him he decided upon revalation of God that he did have a choice to repent or stay in sin.

 

[Hitch]

Gee Even I supposed you have hundreds of quotes from Calvin and Calvinists who teach "sanctification doesn't matter".

Would you share one?

Nothing at all Even?

A christian wouldnt attack with out cause Even .

You do know what you're taking about, dont you?

 

[Eventide]

Even your posts reads to me like your salvation depends on you. Depends on you believing.... Why did you believe?

Why can't you answer my questions Reba.. I told you what happened in my case and then I asked you what happened in your case... did you just wake up one day and have Christ in you for absolutely no reason that you know of..?

Is that what happened in your case Reba ?

Or did you need to repent and believe the gospel just like everyone else.. ?

 

[warhorse]

Me neither..



Exactly what the bible says Reba.. I believed the gospel of God concerning His Son, after I heard it.. and that's when God sealed me with the Holy Spirit and baptized me into the body of His Son..

What happened in your case... did you wake up one day and have Christ in you for no reason you know of ?

Still in the fight here eventide... look your position here is 100% correct, that being said you should have noticed by now that for some here in this forum its not about correcting or learning doctrine, or even teaching it. To them its a game, like a cat with a mouse. Dont be the mouse.

 

[Eventide]

Still in the fight here eventide... look your position here is 100% correct, that being said you should have noticed by now that for some here in this forum its not about correcting or learning doctrine, or even teaching it. To them its a game, like a cat with a mouse. Dont be the mouse.

Thanks for the heads up, and yes it's pretty obvious lol..

 

[RoadDebris]

If Calvinists DID NOT consider themselves beyond reproof or inerrant, then they would readily agree with the word of God which says in simplicity that God has chosen us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth..

Although that's obviously not the case with Calvinists... they continue to preach that God chose them unconditionally.. because that's what Calvinism teaches..

Simple logic.. Calvin trumps Christ every time..

You may choose to state that Calvinists believe they are inerrant, evidence of the matter notwithstanding. You have a God-given right to be wrong.

 

[RoadDebris]

How about this one...

God has chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth..

Isn't this the word of God too..?

So how is that unconditional ?

I mean logically... the bible says that God chose us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth... but Calvinists say that God chose us UNCONDITIONALLY ?? ?

How is that logical ?

Let's look at the text, shall we?

But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth - 2 Thes. 2:13

Who do we thank, ourselves or God? Why do we give thanks, because we chose God or He chose us? When did this choosing take place, on the day we confessed Him as Lord or from the beginning?

 

[RoadDebris]

It seems that there is always (ME) at the center of every false teaching. Being picked over others without any regard for actions declares that God just made YOU BETTER, that is coming from the flesh and really stinks. The question no eliteist can answer is, what is the proof that YOU are one of the elect? You feel that you are one of the elect so you are...hey Hitler felt the same thing. Real christians have had a salvation experience and that is why they believe they are saved.

You may choose to believe that Abraham was "better" than his peers and that's why God choose him, but that's not what the Bible teaches.

As to evidence of salvation, what does the Bible say? There's an entire book dedicated to this theme: James. The saved walk the walk. That's the evidence, according to the Bible.

 

[RoadDebris]

Yeah, unconditional election is just a myth.. who in their right mind would teach others (especially those who are babes in Christ) that God chose them for absolutely no reason at all.. under no conditions at all..

Straw man. You're aware that's an intellectually dishonest tack, right? I mean, since you're condemning such things I would think you would shy away from them yourself. Doesn't lend much credit to you theology (IMO).

There's a reason the elect are chosen, one that's been pointed out to you from scripture several times. The reason is not the merit of the elect, however. That's what the Bible teaches. The Holy Spirit, through Paul, says we do nothing whatsoever to cause our salvation. You don't like that. I get it. But that doesn't change the fact that the Bible says the saved are chosen, including you. It's sad that you just can't give God the glory but insist on taking some of it for yourself.

 

[RoadDebris]

Why can't you answer my questions Reba.. I told you what happened in my case and then I asked you what happened in your case... did you just wake up one day and have Christ in you for absolutely no reason that you know of..?

Is that what happened in your case Reba ?

Or did you need to repent and believe the gospel just like everyone else.. ?

Personally, I don't know anyone who believes this sort of thing. Faith always comes by hearing the word. But everyone who hears doesn't necessarily become a believer. What's the difference between those who accept Christ and those who don't? The former have their will changed by God so that they are inclined toward Him and the latter do not.

 

[RoadDebris]

Me neither..



Exactly what the bible says Reba.. I believed the gospel of God concerning His Son, after I heard it.. and that's when God sealed me with the Holy Spirit and baptized me into the body of His Son..

What happened in your case... did you wake up one day and have Christ in you for no reason you know of ?

Why did you believe? Was it because of your wisdom? You were wise enough to discern the truth of the matter but others who heard the same Gospel were not? Was it because of your self-control? You willed yourself to faith while others couldn't muster the effort needed? Tell us please. Why did you accept Jesus?