The Reception of the Holy Spirit

[GodsGrace]

There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1.

Nice to be able to pick only the verses you like.
If Paul didn't agree with Jesus, would his writings be in the NT?
No.

Jesus said we must believe and obey.

John 3:36, ESV: Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

 

[for_his_glory]

The first sign of a cult is that they reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ and replace it with works.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are many Catholics and Calvinist that are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit. All of us, no matter what four walled building with a name attached to it look through a glass darkly, but all truth will be known when Christ returns.

1Cor 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Cor 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[GodsGrace]

He fulfilled it, then he abolished it. So that we are not subject to it.

I think you said Jesus raised the bar.
The commands of Christ are not abolished.
You must be a hyper grace movement type person.

So many movements...
Away from the bible.

 

[Robert Pate]

so you choose to ignore those scriptures, OK.

The Bible clearly says, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE" John 3:16.

Why do you want to add conditions to that?

 

[for_his_glory]

The only requirement for salvation is faith in Christ and his Gospel.

But, faith without works is dead faith and profits nothing.


Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Robert Pate]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are many Catholics and Calvinist that are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit. All of us, no matter what four walled building with a name attached to it look through a glass darkly, but all truth will be known when Christ returns.

1Cor 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Cor 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

No one will see heaven without faith in Christ and his Gospel. Catholics and Calvinists do not believe the Gospel. If you don't have the truth now, you will never have it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Robert Pate I would like to ask you a few questions if you do not mind and just answer yes or no is all I need from you for now.

1. You do not need to confess your sins any longer to God because 1 John 1:9 is not written to Christians

2. The idea that the Holy Spirit comes to convict you of sin is a grotesque misrepresentation of repentance and that it was heathenish

3.You do not need to fear God, as God is completely pleased with you because of what Jesus did on the cross

 

[for_his_glory]

No one will see heaven without faith in Christ and his Gospel. Catholics and Calvinists do not believe the Gospel. If you don't have the truth now, you will never have it.

In relation to Sola Fide (justification by faith alone), the place of works is found in Ephesians chapter 2. Justification is by grace through faith, not from yourself and not by works. It is by faith alone since all human efforts are excluded here, Ephesians 2:8, 9. Ephesians goes on to say that every person who has faith is to produce good works according to God's plan Ephesians 2:10. We know also that faith without works is dead faith. These works, however, are not a cause for forgiveness, but a result of forgiveness. Faith alone justifies, but faith is never alone as it is followed by good works. The works of love are the goal of the saving faith, 1 Timothy 1:5.

James 1:16-18 clearly teaches that the recipients of the letter have been justified by God through the saving gospel which is Christ Jesus who is our faith. James also taught in James 2:14-26 that faith is dead within us if not followed by good works as it takes faith and good works to justify us. It begins with faith alone when we first accept Jesus as Lord and Savior entering into a better covenant by God's grace and then we become his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I have seen others prove you wrong in some of what you believe, I've been proven wrong in some things I use to believe, just as well with Catholics and Calvinist, but yet as scripture says we look through a glass darkly and when Christ returns than all truth will be revealed to us as we will be shocked in some of the things we all believed that was not truth.

Who is he that condemns others then that of Christ Jesus. It certainly is not you in your judgement of Catholics and Calvinist.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Bible clearly says, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE" John 3:16.

Why do you want to add conditions to that?

By your POV then by posting that one scripture, leaving out faith and the good works of faith scriptures and those of being Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit in order to inherit the kingdom of God, all we have to do is just believe and we will be in heaven with the Lord when we die. That verse alone would make it that even devils will go to heaven as they also believe and even tremble at His name.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

It takes faith to believe as faith comes by hearing the word of God and learning to being obedient to His commands as they are not burdensome.

 

[DJT_47]

All who are baptized receive the gift of the Holy Ghost per Acts 2:38. And notice it says gift (singular) of the Holy Ghost not gifts, which means the indwelling of the Spirit itself and not the miraculous gifts noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, which are manifested through it.

 

[Hopeful]

The Holy Spirit is only given to those that hear and believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:4.

Catholics, Calvinist, Judaism do not believe the Gospel.

You should have added "repent of sin" to your list. (Acts 2:38)

 

[Hopeful]

All who are baptized receive the gift of the Holy Ghost per Acts 2:38. And notice it says gift (singular) of the Holy Ghost not gifts, which means the indwelling of the Spirit itself and not the miraculous gifts noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, which are manifested through it.

You should have added "and repented of sin" to the requirements to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

 

[Mungo]

well I am speaking about the reception of the Holy Spirit which is the title of this thread. Can you give me your understanding how we become indwelled with the Holy Spirit if it is not through the Spiritual rebirth from above?

Certainly.
I have a book called Receiving The Power by two Presbyterian Charismatics, Zeb Bradford Long and Douglas McMurray, which I think explains this very well. I'll use some actual quotes in blue.
Their thesis is that there are two distinctive ways in which the Holy Spirit acts and these are often confused, not the least because the same phrases are used in scripture regarding them. These two ways are referred to by Long & McMurray as ‘the Spirit upon’ and ‘the Spirit within’.
They say:
"There are two major motifs in scripture…that reflect two different operations of the Holy Spirit. One motif has the Spirit coming “upon” people for power in ministry. A second has the Spirit coming “within” people for salvation and to develop in them skill, wisdom, godly character and maturity in faith and love. Both motifs are equally important and equally biblical."

Thus there is an external and internal work of the Spirit. This is true both for the Old Testament and the New.

The external work corresponds to the charismatic gifts of the Spirit which are given for work of ministry. Examples of the ‘Spirit upon’ from the Old Testament are for example 2Chr 15:1-2 (for prophecy), 1Sam 19:23-24 (ecstatic praise of God), Ez 1:3-4 (for visions).

The internal work corresponds to the sanctifying gifts of the Spirit, as well as practical gifts. Examples from the Old Testament are Gen 41:38-39 (wisdom), Ex 31:1-5 (knowledge and craftsmanship).

Long & McMurray use the imagery of a tree where, in the external work, the Spirit gives gifts like those on a Christmas tree, which can be added or removed. They are given for ministry and for the building up of the Church. The internal work is more like the sap permeating the tree giving it life and producing fruit that comes from within. Thus the internal work helps us grow in holiness and spiritual fruitfulness.

When scripture uses the phrase “receive the Holy Spirit” (or similar) it may be using it to refer to either “the Spirit upon” or the “Spirit within”. Some discernment is needed and sometimes the text is not clear. One test is whether there is some manifestation of “the Spirit upon”.

The Spirit Upon
In Acts, Luke seems to use the term (receive the Holy Spirit) exclusively for “the Spirit upon”. At Pentecost the Holy Spirit, in the form of tongues of fire, comes to rest on those in the Upper Room and they all begin to speak in tongues (manifestation) (Acts 2:1-4)

In Acts 10 the Holy Spirit falls on Cornelius and his household and they began to speak in tongues (manifestation). Peter says "Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" (vs 47) – referring to Pentecost. This is “the Spirit upon”.

The Spirit Within
Paul himself, in his writings, seems to use receiving the Holy Spirit in the sense of “the Spirit within” (for character and salvation)

“For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, "Abba! Father!" it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God” (Rom 8:15-16)

“Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God.” (1Cor 2:12)

“Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God?” (1Cor 6:19)

So we receive the Holy Spirit within at baptism (with water) and receive the Holy Spirit upon at the so-called baptism with the Holy Spirit.

There are OT prophecies for both of these:
Ezekial (Ez 36:25-27) -
I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you….
the Spirit within

In Acts 2:17-18) Peter quotes from Joel explaining what had happened
‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days
I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.
the Spirit upon

I can give NT examples as well but this is getting long

But one more thing, another expression the Bible uses, filled with the Holy Spirit, is more complicated but it too can be understood in the context of the inner and outer work of the Spirit. This is easier to distinguish becayuse two different Greek words are used. But I'll leave that for now as this is getting rather long.

 

[Robert Pate]

But, faith without works is dead faith and profits nothing.


Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James was a Judaizer. A Judaizer is someone that believes in Jesus but also believes that you keep the law of Moses. The book of James was not directed to Gentile Christians. It was directed to law keeping Jews, James 1:1. James wanted to circumcise Gentile believers, Acts 15:1-21. James also sent men to spy on Barnabas and Peter to see if the were eating with those nasty Gentiles, Galatians 2:11-21.

 

[Robert Pate]

You should have added "repent of sin" to your list. (Acts 2:38)

Repenting is a work of the Holy Spirit that occurs after one is saved, not before.

 

[Robert Pate]

Certainly.
I have a book called Receiving The Power by two Presbyterian Charismatics, Zeb Bradford Long and Douglas McMurray, which I think explains this very well. I'll use some actual quotes in blue.
Their thesis is that there are two distinctive ways in which the Holy Spirit acts and these are often confused, not the least because the same phrases are used in scripture regarding them. These two ways are referred to by Long & McMurray as ‘the Spirit upon’ and ‘the Spirit within’.
They say:
"There are two major motifs in scripture…that reflect two different operations of the Holy Spirit. One motif has the Spirit coming “upon” people for power in ministry. A second has the Spirit coming “within” people for salvation and to develop in them skill, wisdom, godly character and maturity in faith and love. Both motifs are equally important and equally biblical."

Thus there is an external and internal work of the Spirit. This is true both for the Old Testament and the New.

The external work corresponds to the charismatic gifts of the Spirit which are given for work of ministry. Examples of the ‘Spirit upon’ from the Old Testament are for example 2Chr 15:1-2 (for prophecy), 1Sam 19:23-24 (ecstatic praise of God), Ez 1:3-4 (for visions).

The internal work corresponds to the sanctifying gifts of the Spirit, as well as practical gifts. Examples from the Old Testament are Gen 41:38-39 (wisdom), Ex 31:1-5 (knowledge and craftsmanship).

Long & McMurray use the imagery of a tree where, in the external work, the Spirit gives gifts like those on a Christmas tree, which can be added or removed. They are given for ministry and for the building up of the Church. The internal work is more like the sap permeating the tree giving it life and producing fruit that comes from within. Thus the internal work helps us grow in holiness and spiritual fruitfulness.

When scripture uses the phrase “receive the Holy Spirit” (or similar) it may be using it to refer to either “the Spirit upon” or the “Spirit within”. Some discernment is needed and sometimes the text is not clear. One test is whether there is some manifestation of “the Spirit upon”.

The Spirit Upon
In Acts, Luke seems to use the term (receive the Holy Spirit) exclusively for “the Spirit upon”. At Pentecost the Holy Spirit, in the form of tongues of fire, comes to rest on those in the Upper Room and they all begin to speak in tongues (manifestation) (Acts 2:1-4)

In Acts 10 the Holy Spirit falls on Cornelius and his household and they began to speak in tongues (manifestation). Peter says "Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" (vs 47) – referring to Pentecost. This is “the Spirit upon”.

The Spirit Within
Paul himself, in his writings, seems to use receiving the Holy Spirit in the sense of “the Spirit within” (for character and salvation)

“For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, "Abba! Father!" it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God” (Rom 8:15-16)

“Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God.” (1Cor 2:12)

“Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God?” (1Cor 6:19)

So we receive the Holy Spirit within at baptism (with water) and receive the Holy Spirit upon at the so-called baptism with the Holy Spirit.

There are OT prophecies for both of these:
Ezekial (Ez 36:25-27) -
I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you….
the Spirit within

In Acts 2:17-18) Peter quotes from Joel explaining what had happened
‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
yea, and on my menservants and my maidservants in those days
I will pour out my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.
the Spirit upon

I can give NT examples as well but this is getting long

But one more thing, another expression the Bible uses, filled with the Holy Spirit, is more complicated but it too can be understood in the context of the inner and outer work of the Spirit. This is easier to distinguish becayuse two different Greek words are used. But I'll leave that for now as this is getting rather long.

Catholics frequently mix sanctification with justification. A theological no, no.

Sanctification: God's work in us by the Holy Spirit.

Justification: God's work for us by Jesus Christ (The Gospel).

When you mix these two separate aspects of salvation you have heresy.

 

[Robert Pate]

By your POV then by posting that one scripture, leaving out faith and the good works of faith scriptures and those of being Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit in order to inherit the kingdom of God, all we have to do is just believe and we will be in heaven with the Lord when we die. That verse alone would make it that even devils will go to heaven as they also believe and even tremble at His name.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

It takes faith to believe as faith comes by hearing the word of God and learning to being obedient to His commands as they are not burdensome.

Obedience is a work of the Holy Spirit and is the results of being born again. The only requirement for salvation is faith in Christ, plus nothing. If it is faith plus works then it is a perverted salvation and may not be a salvation at all, Ephesians 2:8.

 

[Robert Pate]

All who are baptized receive the gift of the Holy Ghost per Acts 2:38. And notice it says gift (singular) of the Holy Ghost not gifts, which means the indwelling of the Spirit itself and not the miraculous gifts noted in 1 Cor 12:8-10, which are manifested through it.

The Holy Spirit is given after one believes, not before.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert Pate I would like to ask you a few questions if you do not mind and just answer yes or no is all I need from you for now.

1. You do not need to confess your sins any longer to God because 1 John 1:9 is not written to Christians

2. The idea that the Holy Spirit comes to convict you of sin is a grotesque misrepresentation of repentance and that it was heathenish

3.You do not need to fear God, as God is completely pleased with you because of what Jesus did on the cross

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were all written under the Old Covenant of law and religion, that has been abolished, Colossians 2:14.

Paul said that we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. Paul was a New Covenant Christian for that reason I believe Paul. All that are trusting in Christ have entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, that is what he does, John 16:8.

 

[Mungo]

Catholics frequently mix sanctification with justification. A theological no, no.

Sanctification: God's work in us by the Holy Spirit.

Justification: God's work for us by Jesus Christ (The Gospel).

When you mix these two separate aspects of salvation you have heresy.

More opinions.