Under Grace not Under Law

[Papyrus_dust]

What appears intentional is the misdirection of this discussion toward what has never actually been avowed by any Christian participating.
The first error in revocable salvation works salvation heresy is to imagine that one which is IN Christ chose Christ first. That is not what God's breath tells us. That is a spiritual blessing.
Ephesians 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Pulpit Commentary http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-4.htm
Verse 4. - Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world; literally, he chose us out, or selected us (ἐξελέξατο) for himself(middle voice). The Father chose the heirs of salvation, selected those who were to be quickened from the dead (Ephesians 2:1) and saved, they chose them in Christ - in connection with his work and office as Mediator, giving them to him to be re-decreed (John 17:11, 12); not after man was created, nor after man had fallen, but "before the foundation of the world." We are here face to face with a profound mystery. Before even the world was founded, mankind presented themselves to God as lost; the work of redemption was planned and its details arranged from all eternity.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Iniquity: Immoral or grossly unfair behavior.

Setting right heresy is not iniquity.

Matthew 10:14 "And if anyone will not welcome you or heed your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 15Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17But beware of men; for they will hand you over to their councils and flog you in their synagogues."

Luke 9:5 "If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them."

 

[JLB]

What i want to understand from osas Christians what does one have to do to gain this 'free;' that come upon all men...

Nothing. It's free. It's unconditional.

You don't have to believe.
You don't have to repent.
And you certainly don't have to obey the Gospel!!!




Thank you Reba, for some good ole fashion wisdom.


JLB

 

[JLB]

What appears intentional is the misdirection of this discussion toward what has never actually been avowed by any Christian participating.
The first error in revocable salvation works salvation heresy is to imagine that one which is IN Christ chose Christ first. That is not what God's breath tells us. That is a spiritual blessing.
Ephesians 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Pulpit Commentary http://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-4.htm
Verse 4. - Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world; literally, he chose us out, or selected us (ἐξελέξατο) for himself(middle voice). The Father chose the heirs of salvation, selected those who were to be quickened from the dead (Ephesians 2:1) and saved, they chose them in Christ - in connection with his work and office as Mediator, giving them to him to be re-decreed (John 17:11, 12); not after man was created, nor after man had fallen, but "before the foundation of the world." We are here face to face with a profound mystery. Before even the world was founded, mankind presented themselves to God as lost; the work of redemption was planned and its details arranged from all eternity.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Iniquity: Immoral or grossly unfair behavior.

Setting right heresy is not iniquity.

Matthew 10:14 "And if anyone will not welcome you or heed your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 15Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16Look, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17But beware of men; for they will hand you over to their councils and flog you in their synagogues."

Luke 9:5 "If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them."

Who are you talking to?

Could you please answer her question?

Here is what Reba is asking you -

What i want to understand from osas Christians what does one have to do to gain this 'free;' that come upon all men...



JLB

 

[MCoop]

Nothing. It's free. It's unconditional.

You don't have to believe.
You don't have to repent.
And you certainly don't have to obey the Gospel!!!




Thank you Reba, for some good ole fashion wisdom.


JLB

The joke is on law keepers such as conditional Salvationist. For they practice nothing what is mentioned above

 

[Papyrus_dust]

The joke is on law keepers such as conditional Salvationist. For they practice nothing what is mentioned above

With all deference brother, I wouldn't call the state of such heretics a joke. Their eternal souls are at risk for what their hubris defends with pride. Pray God has any one of those who are lost and dead in their sins to his son. A world of over 7 billion souls and how many are redeemed in Christ? From now unto the second coming of our King.

 

[Jim Parker]

"Away from me you doers of iniquity"
Isn't that in the Matthew passage you referred to?

Yes.
That's what He said to the lass than faithful.

 

[reba]

MCoop I did not see that post to be an answer .. so we disagree

 

[Jim Parker]

The joke is on law keepers such as conditional Salvationist.

Who are those "law keepers"?
The only people who I have met who think they need to keep part of the law are 7th Day Adventists who keep the Sabbath (Saturday) instead of meeting on the first day of the week (Sunday) when Jesus rose from the grave defeating the power of death.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

A deep forewarning to promoters of less than the actual Good News.

A Tree and Its Fruit Matthew 7
15 “Beware of the false prophets, [teachers] who come to you dressed as sheep [appearing gentle and innocent], but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them [that is, by their contrived doctrine and self-focus]. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the unhealthy tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore, by their fruit you will recognize them [as false prophets].

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me on that day [when I judge them], ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, and driven out demons in Your name, and done many miracles in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them publicly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me [you are banished from My presence], you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands].’

 

[Jim Parker]

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me on that day [when I judge them], ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, and driven out demons in Your name, and done many miracles in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them publicly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me [you are banished from My presence], you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands].’

Jhn 15:8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

 

[reba]

Papyrus_dust Does Romans 5:18 say the gift came upon all men? so what makes you different then those here you are calling haritics

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

[JohnDB]

Who are those "law keepers"?
The only people who I have met who think they need to keep part of the law are 7th Day Adventists who keep the Sabbath (Saturday) instead of meeting on the first day of the week (Sunday) when Jesus rose from the grave defeating the power of death.

There's quite a few Messianic Jews and different sects. They uphold a good bit of The Law but believe in Jesus at the same time.

 

[billybalke]

Papyrus_dust Does Romans 5:18 say the gift came upon all men? so what makes you different then those here you are calling haritics

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Yes, Matt.11:28-30 for example.

To be deep in scripture is to cease being Catholic, Protestant, Jew and Calvinist
Rom.16:16

 

[JLB]

It’s because the understanding of God’s grace that saves is foreign to those who believe their works plays a role as the grounds for justification. The natural mind cannot receive this, much less believe it

God's grace through our faith is what saves.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:8

Anytime this subject of salvation is studied and discussed we must include all the components involved.

To say salvation is by grace alone is just not biblical.

In essence what you are claiming is that Salvation is by the Holy Spirit alone.

That our involvement to believe is not required.

Here is the Gospel of the kingdom.

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15

Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

The command of the Gospel is repent.

Repent means to turn to God.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord.

Our turning to God, repenting, is how we obey the Gospel.

The way that your express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.

This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Acts 26:15-18


Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

• to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you serve.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The joke is on law keepers such as conditional Salvationist. For they practice nothing what is mentioned above

When are you going to point out these so called "law keepers" that you claim are teaching the law of Moses must be kept in order to be saved.

Please show us these Judaizers.


JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Titus 3 speaks of heretics.

Heresy Definition
The definition of what is heresy is based primarily on teaching something in opposition or which contradicts, what a particular group or church denomination says in the truth of God (which is usually found in the group's statement of beliefs). A heretic is someone who, as commonly used by religious groups and outreaches, teaches, and practices things that are heresy (as seen from their point of view).
The Greek word hairesis that is translated 'heresy' or its plural (Strong's Concordance #G139) is in Acts 24:14, 1Corinthians 11:19, Galatians 5:20 and 2Peter 2:1. It means "disunion, someone who causes division." The New Testament warns against those who teach lies and split true Christians apart.

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, as indeed there will be false teachers among you, who will stealthily introduce destructive heresies (2Peter 2:1)

6. I am astonished that you are so quickly being turned away from Him Who called you into the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7. Which in reality is not another gospel; but there are some who are troubling you and are desiring to pervert the gospel of Christ (with heresy, Galatians 1:6 - 7)

Note that the New Testament does not unilaterally condemn a person who believes, even on a variety of subjects, something different (heresy) than what is stated in a fellowship's statement of beliefs. It also does not use the label 'heretic' on those of differing opinions. What the Bible DOES condemn, however, is the use of such beliefs as a means to divide a local fellowship or church. Paul, in his letter to the Romans, states that people who gather to worship God can have different understandings regarding a range of topics.

1. Receive the one who is weak in the faith, but not for divisive arguments. 13. Therefore, we should no longer judge one another, but judge this instead: Do not put an occasion of stumbling or a cause of offense before your brother (Romans 14:1, 13)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible
Therefore - Wherefore ( Ἄρα οὖν ara oun). This is properly a summing up, a recapitulation of what had been stated in the previous verses. The apostle resumes the statement or proposition made in Romans 5:12, and after the intermediate explanation in the parenthesis Romans 5:13-17, in this verse and the following, sums up the whole subject. The explanation, therefore, of the previous verses is designed to convey the real meaning of Romans 5:18-19.

As by the offence of one - Admitting this as an undisputed and everywhere apparent fact, a fact which no one can call in question.

Judgment came - This is not in the Greek, but it is evidently implied, and is stated in Romans 5:16. The meaning is, that all have been brought under the reign of death by one man.

Upon all men - The whole race. This explains what is meant by “the many” in Romans 5:15.

To condemnation - Romans 5:16.

Even so - In the manner explained in the previous verses. With the same certainty, and to the same extent. The apostle does not explain the mode in which it was done, but simply scares the fact.

By the righteousness of one - This stands opposed to the one offence of Adam, and must mean, therefore, the holiness, obedience, purity of the Redeemer. The sin of one man involved people in ruin; the obedience unto death of the other Philemon 2:8 restored them to the favor of God.

Came upon all men - ( εἰς παντας ἀνθρώπους eis pantas anthrōpousWas with reference to all people; had a bearing upon all people; was originally adapted to the race. As the sin of Adam was of such a nature in the relation in which he stood as to affect all the race, so the work of Christ in the relation in which he stood was adapted also to all the race. As the tendency of the one was to involve the race in condemnation, so the tendency of the other was to restore them to acceptance with God. There was an original applicability in the work of Christ to all people - a richness, a fulness of the atonement suited to meet the sins of the entire world, and restore the race to favor.

Unto justification of life - With reference to that justification which is connected with eternal life. That is, his work is adapted to produce acceptance with God, to the same extent as the crime of Adam has affected the race by involving them in sin and misery The apostle does not affirm that in fact as many will be affected by the one as by the other; but that it is suited to meet all the consequences of the fall; to be as wide-spread in its effects; and go be as salutary as that had been ruinous. This is all that the argument requires. Perhaps there could not be found a more striking declaration any where, that the work of Christ had an original applicability to all people; or that it is in its own nature suited to save all. The course of argument here leads inevitably to this; nor is it possible to avoid it without doing violence to the obvious and fair course of the discussion.

It does not prove that all will in fact be saved, but that the plan is suited to meet all the evils of the fall. A certain kind of medicine may have an original applicability to heal all persons under the same disease; and may be abundant and certain, and yet in fact be applied to few. The sun is suited to give light to all, yet many may be blind, or may voluntarily close their eyes. Water is adapted to the needs of all people, and the supply may be ample for the human family, yet in fact, from various causes, many may be deprived of it. So of the provisions of the plan of redemption. They are adapted to all; they are ample, and yet in fact, from causes which this is not the place to explain, the benefits, like those of medicine, water, science, etc. may never be enjoyed by all the race. Calvin concurs in this interpretation, and thus shows, that it is one which commends itself even to the most strenuous advocates of the system which is called by his name. He says, “He (the apostle) makes the grace common to all, because it is offered to all, not because it is in fact applied to all. For although Christ suffered for the sins or the whole world (nam etsi passus est Christus pro peccatis totius mundi), and it is offered to all without distinction (indifferenter), yet all do not embrace it.” See Cal. Commentary on this place.

Full Teaching > http://www.studylight.org/commentary/romans/5-18.html

 

[ezra]

Nothing. It's free. It's unconditional.

You don't have to believe.
You don't have to repent.
And you certainly don't have to obey the Gospel!!!




Thank you Reba, for some good ole fashion wisdom.


JLB

ya know if you would study out the teaching you wouldn't post this.. this reminds me of a opening remark in message i heard i'm glad i am not one who thinks they can lose it . those who teach osas
You do have to believe.
You do have to repent.
And you certainly do have to obey the Gospel!!!
try listening to Adrian rogers or jay Vernon McGee and yes salvation to be saved in unconditional the 3 words at the cross it is finished .he paid the debt . we only have to accept it when he calls. yes there are requirements that we have after salvation..

 

[Papyrus_dust]

The Biblical Illustrator

Romans 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one Judgment came upon all men to condemnation.

Condemnation


I. Its cause. Sin.


II. Its miseries.

1. Physical.

2. Spiritual.

3. Eternal.


III. Its cure.

1. Justification.

2. Freely offered.

3. Through the righteousness of Christ. (J. Lyth, D. D.)

The contrast between a state of condemnation and grace


I. In their origin.

1. The one originates in sin.

2. The other in the righteousness of Christ.


II. In their evidences.

1. The one is distinguished by disobedience.

2. The other by the obedience of faith.


III. In their relation to the law.

1. The law exposes sin, and increases condemnation.

2. Grace removes both yet magnifies the law. (The role of the law in Christian life - this is my addition for further reading)


IV. In their results.

1. Condemnation brings death temporal, eternal.

2. Grace confers a new life on earth and a glorious and blissful life in the world to come. (J. Lyth, D. D.)

The mediatorial system

1. One of the chief glories of Christianity is this--it is the religion of facts. These facts are few, extraordinary, and eternal and universal in their aspects.

2. In the context we have two classes of facts.

(a) Sin is in the world; it has quenched its lights, destroyed its liberties, embittered its enjoyments. History, observation and our own consciousness convince us of this.

(b) Death is in the world. It has reigned from Adam to this day. Individuals, families, nations, the world are dying. Every sepulchre, funeral, illness, pulse, reminds us that the dust is to be our home.

(c) Both sin and death have entered the world by the same man, Adam. The origin of evil is a deep mystery, but its introduction to our world is a historical fact clearly stated in the Bible. God made Adam the father, the priest of the world, but Adam ruined it and himself. Adam was the original sinner, and we his children sin and die.

(a) Grace is in the world. “Grace hath abounded.” God was under no obligation to show or continue grace to this world. He might withdraw it; that would leave man a demon in character, who would soon kindle around himself the fires of an universal hell. Grace alone keeps the world from becoming the victim of its own transgression.

(b) There is a higher, nobler life than this. “Grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life.” Eternal life means freedom from sin, which is the destroyer of the innocence, happiness and utility of man; freedom from the penalties of violated law; and freedom from annihilation, It means an existence without sin, misery, or end.

(c) This grace and eternal life flow to man through the same channel, “Christ Jesus the Lord.”

3. The apostle states these great truths--


I. The existence of the human race rests on the mediation of Jesus.

1. “The Lord commanded the man, saying,…of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.” A phrase which must have meant either absolute annihilation or the dissolution of soul and body, and the consequent punishment of both in hell. But Adam did sin. Was his existence quenched? Was he driven to hell? No. Was he spared on the ground of rectitude? No; for if justice could have spared him for one hour, it could have spared him forever. But he was spared; and as he could not have been spared on the ground of justice, he must have been spared on the ground of grace, and if on the ground of grace, then it was through the mediation of Christ, for grace reigns only through Him.

2. A new system was introduced, and Adam’s forfeited being was spared, and his species was to be multiplied because the Second Adam had been appointed to be the Great Head and Saviour of the human kind. But if our very existence is an effect of the great mediatorial scheme, all the means, comforts, and hopes of our existence are also effects of the same scheme. In Him all things consist.

3. Under the government of the Son of Man the human race has already grown into extraordinary numerical greatness, and is to continue to augment in strength, moral and physical excellence, grandeur and happiness, for perhaps millions of years to come. It is natural to think so, if we consider the honour which God has already bestowed on our nature, by raising it to union with Himself; that four thousand years were occupied in preparations for the advent; the extensive provisions that have been made for the future accommodation of our race in another world; that the agency of the Church is in its infancy; that the sciences and arts, matter and mind, have hardly yet presented their first oblations to Christianity.

4. Christ is to be honoured here more than He has yet been. It was on earth He was born, died, first published His salvation, qualified Himself for His mediatorial crown. Here, also, He is to be acknowledged as the Lord of all. The mediation of Christ is the basis of human existence, and the means of restoration to light, purity and glory.


II. The mediatory agency of Jesus Christ procures immortality for man.

1. Man’s existence is not limited to this narrow, dark sphere. Our immortality and the knowledge of it are the gifts of Christ. His existence in the invisible world is the greatest proof we have of its reality. His resurrection and ascension are the most convincing arguments for a future world. He lives. We shall live.

2. It is true that an endless existence will be a curse to the wicked; but let not the author of immortality be blamed for that.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The heresy therefore is that which teaches anything Jesus did not die to commit for eternity as his covenant for the worlds people whom his father calls by his grace unto redemption. As in, revocable salvation, or works salvation, which is OT not NT. And violates even the teachings of Paul. Ephesians 2:8-9 .
The boasting in that passage would be what revocable salvation ministers are doing. They hope to convince those who will listen and follow their teaching, that man's will is stronger to oppose God's grace than God's grace is to save man from the prideful sin that dares teach such garbage using his only begotten son as its vehicle.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Those who corrupt God's truth of eternal salvation and eternal life through Jesus Christ by claiming eternal salvation and eternal life give license to sin with impunity, are yet another example of heresy. All actual Christians know they are so. Because we read the teachings Jesus died to deliver. And that is how we know once we're saved we are eternally saved and shall have eternal life with the Father, because those IN CHRIST do not make a habit of sinning.
That's where those who interpolate the eternal salvation truth make their mistake. They don't know actual Christians know those scriptures. That have been posted here in this discussion time and again.
And that's why while OSAS is a encapsulation term to describe the actual Gospel, how it is corrupted by those who invoke it and claim it is a license to sin are known for what they are. That which would attack the actual Gospel message using the devil's domain, sin with impunity, as a subtext.

Their fruit is rotten to the core. And Jesus does not know them. Maybe that's why they're mad at his actual truth that he died to deliver. And that rage is why they corrupt the ESTJCOL. Eternal Salvation Through Jesus Christ Our Lord doctrine.