Under Grace not Under Law

[Papyrus_dust]

ya know if you would study out the teaching you wouldn't post this.. this reminds me of a opening remark in message i heard i'm glad i am not one who thinks they can lose it . those who teach osas
You do have to believe.
You do have to repent.
And you certainly do have to obey the Gospel!!!
try listening to Adrian rogers or jay Vernon McGee and yes salvation to be saved in unconditional the 3 words at the cross it is finished .he paid the debt . we only have to accept it when he calls. yes there are requirements that we have after salvation..

My sincerest apologies. I adjusted some of the optics on my account and realized I was in error thinking your remarks were addressed to me. Your posting there appeared directly under my post #257. That is why I thought you were addressing those remarks to that.
Again my apologies. Please forgive me.

edited to remove double word posted

 

[reba]

Papyrus_dust Does Romans 5:18 say the gift came upon all men? so what makes you different then those here you are calling haritics

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Are you not willing to answer yourself?

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Are you not willing to answer yourself?

I think if you read these many pages you'll see I did. When that isn't enough and it is rebuffed, I believe outside impartial sources are perhaps able to teach what I failed to. Thank you for your understanding sister. Have a blessed and merry Christmas.

 

[ezra]

Ya know, if you'd actually read the article you wouldn't misrepresent what it says or what I've said. Because I have never said those things you claim. It is false witness.

(c) This grace and eternal life flow to man through the same channel, “Christ Jesus the Lord.”

hmmmmm

JLBMember
Joined:
Jul 13, 2012
Messages:
17,934
Location:
Texas
Christian:
Yes
↑
What i want to understand from osas Christians what does one have to do to gain this 'free;' that come upon all men...
Nothing. It's free. It's unconditional.

You don't have to believe.
You don't have to repent.
And you certainly don't have to obey the Gospel!!!




Thank you Reba, for some good ole fashion wisdom.


JLB

i dont recall seeing your signature on that post so it would be hard to bear false witness on you....the above is a copy of the post i replied to which DID NOT have your name on it thank you very much

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Being this is the eve of the celebration of our dear saviors birth, let this gift be a offering reminder of why we are all here in this place. Blessed by the grace of God and the salvation sacrifice of his only begotten son, Emmanuel, Jesus, the Christ.

(giant hug to all) Have a blessed and merry Christmas. And a prosperous and happy joyous New Year.

 

[JLB]

A deep forewarning to promoters of less than the actual Good News.

A Tree and Its Fruit Matthew 7
15 “Beware of the false prophets, [teachers] who come to you dressed as sheep [appearing gentle and innocent], but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them [that is, by their contrived doctrine and self-focus]. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the unhealthy tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore, by their fruit you will recognize them [as false prophets].

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me on that day [when I judge them], ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, and driven out demons in Your name, and done many miracles in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them publicly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me [you are banished from My presence], you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands].’

Those fruitless branches of His, who stood before Him on the Day of Judgement when He Judges each person according to their deeds, had no excuse when He said to them - Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

• for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
• I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
• I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me,
• sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ Matthew 25:41-43

JLB

 

[JLB]

ya know if you would study out the teaching you wouldn't post this.. this reminds me of a opening remark in message i heard i'm glad i am not one who thinks they can lose it . those who teach osas
You do have to believe.
You do have to repent.
And you certainly do have to obey the Gospel!!!
try listening to Adrian rogers or jay Vernon McGee and yes salvation to be saved in unconditional the 3 words at the cross it is finished .he paid the debt . we only have to accept it when he calls. yes there are requirements that we have after salvation..

How does unconditional salvation work if you don't have to believe or repent, sir?

Wouldn't everyone be saved in the world of unconditional salvation were true ?

What is the difference between unconditional salvation and universal salvation?


JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

How does unconditional salvation work if you don't have to believe or repent, sir?

Wouldn't everyone be saved in the world of unconditional salvation were true ?

What is the difference between unconditional salvation and universal salvation?


JLB

You are quoting Ezra but you don't read what he wrote? He never said we don't have to repent or believe.

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Seven Proofs of Unconditional Salvation

Introduction

Proof #1: Man has no natural desire or ability to obey or please God for salvation.

Proof #2: God expressly denies man's will or works in obtaining salvation.

Proof #3: Faith and works are results of salvation, not conditions or means for it.

Proof #4: Jesus Christ saves sinners by Himself without any human cooperation.

Proof #5: The gospel and its ordinances were never intended to give eternal life.

Proof #6: The Bible gives examples of sinners saved without any conditions.

Proof #7: Unconditional salvation is the only doctrine giving God all the glory.

....
Conclusion


How are we saved? By the grace of God through Jesus Christ - no ifs, ands, or buts! By Himself He saved His elect from the eternal judgment they deserve and for His own glory and praise! Not a single one will be lost! His purposes will be fully accomplished! Sinners do not add to His finished work nor activate its blessings! He is more than worthy of your best esteem!
Gospel preaching brings the good news of this gracious salvation. It cannot make elect out of reprobates, sheep out of goats, or spiritual men out of natural men; but it can teach, comfort, exhort, and warn the elect to live godly lives in this world, while we wait for Jesus from heaven.

We believe the gospel for the knowledge and comfort of eternal life it gives us (Acts 13:48; II Tim 1:10; I John 5:13). It describes God's wisdom and power in saving us by Jesus Christ (I Cor 1:18, 22-24), and it tells us what to do to please Him while living here (I Thess 4:1). The Bible was written to saints, and preaching should be done to them also (Acts 13:26; II Thess 3:1-2).

Believing the gospel is only an evidence of eternal life, not a condition for it. Verses speaking of faith in Christ are evidentiary facts, not impossible conditions required of dead sinners to save themselves. Baptism and the Lord's Supper are simply emblems to remind us of Jesus Christ.

There is a salvation in the gospel - but it is only a salvation to truth and comfort in this life - it is not a condition, prerequisite, or instrument for obtaining eternal life. We realize a salvation of comfort and hope by remembering the resurrection (I Cor 15:2, 19); ministers obtain salvation in godliness and truth by taking heed to themselves and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16); and we can all save each other from ungodly living by converting one another back to the truth (Jas 5:19-20).

The whole religious world stands against the truth of unconditional eternal life, for Satan has his Jesus preached by his gospel through his spirit everywhere (II Cor 11:3-4). Where do you stand?

The Jesus of God - Jehovah in the flesh - has by Himself fully saved His elect without the loss of one, and without conditions or requirements of any kind or description. Do you love Him?

Does unconditional eternal life create any motive for holy living? It creates the most! For only constant holy living proves you are God's elect. Rome's sacramentalism and "faith only" allow any lifestyle, as long as you were sprinkled or made a one-time, emotional decision for Jesus.

If you saw in this study God's wisdom and power in saving us by Jesus Christ, then you are saved and in possession of eternal life (I Cor 1:24; John 3:3; 17:2-3; I John 5:20).

If you wish to make your calling and election to eternal life sure, then there are things you should bear in your life as the evidence (II Peter 1:5-10; I Tim 6:17-19; Matt 7:21).

If you are thankful for God's gracious salvation, then you should answer Him with your good conscience in water baptism (I Peter 3:21; Acts 2:37-38; 8:35-39).

If you are already baptized, you need to worship Him in spirit and truth (John 4:24; Gal 1:8-9).

Let us humble ourselves before the living God, beg for His mercy, put our trust only in the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life, obey the gospel fully until He returns, and praise His glorious name!


See Also
Five Phases of Salvation

When were you saved? How were you saved? God saves His elect in five distinct phases or stages. Without these five aspects of salvation, you cannot rightly divide scripture on the most important Bible doctrine (II Tim 2:15). This sermon will teach you more about how to read and understand the Bible about salvation than any other. When would Paul say he was saved?

 

[reba]

I think if you read these many pages you'll see I did. When that isn't enough and it is rebuffed, I believe outside impartial sources are perhaps able to teach what I failed to. Thank you for your understanding sister. Have a blessed and merry Christmas.

i understand

 

[reba]

how does one humble themselves without that being a work

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Humility is a characteristic of God.
Matthew11:29 "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls."
How would someone work at being humble?

How would someone commit to work in order to keep a free gift?

When do you believe you were saved?

 

[ezra]

How does unconditional salvation work if you don't have to believe or repent, sir?

Wouldn't everyone be saved in the world of unconditional salvation were true ?

What is the difference between unconditional salvation and universal salvation?


JLB

look your taking something completely out of text...i said Christ paid the price at Calvary IT IS FINISHED. he paid the debt for sin so that the who so ever shall can be saved .. the night i got saved did i believe ? i believed in Jesus i was lost as a goose i had no idea what to say or do ..i had no idea what repentance.. all i knew was i was lost and needed to be saved . ya know all i said was GOD save me.. it say in Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” from the heart..not the mouth .yes salvation is unconditional in other words we dont have to jump through hoops confess our sin to some man.... i dont have to know a bunch a scriptures to be saved. i just have to have a true heart heart ..to be technical God gives us a heart to know him.. he also takes the heart of stone and softens it ( a new heart } .the spirit quickens . aint NO man ever had part in saving anyone

Wouldn't everyone be saved in the world of unconditional salvation were true ?

i am not playing the calvinism game the Bible says to avoid foolish questions ... NO place in Scripture does it say everyone will be saved.. you sir are adding to the word of God for asking that ...

What is the difference between unconditional salvation and universal salvation?

its your question you answer it i said God save me i accepted it by faith and i really had no idea what faith was about...in closing your honor we are NOT saved of our self as you seem to want to imply i am saying reference scripture Ephesians chapter 2. i rest my case the condition is the Heart not the mind not the mouth not the Church doctrine and not the preacher (which i am ) i only deliver the message the Holy Spirit takes over

 

[MCoop]

Seven Proofs of Unconditional Salvation

Introduction

Proof #1: Man has no natural desire or ability to obey or please God for salvation.

Proof #2: God expressly denies man's will or works in obtaining salvation.

Proof #3: Faith and works are results of salvation, not conditions or means for it.

Proof #4: Jesus Christ saves sinners by Himself without any human cooperation.

Proof #5: The gospel and its ordinances were never intended to give eternal life.

Proof #6: The Bible gives examples of sinners saved without any conditions.

Proof #7: Unconditional salvation is the only doctrine giving God all the glory.

....
Conclusion


How are we saved? By the grace of God through Jesus Christ - no ifs, ands, or buts! By Himself He saved His elect from the eternal judgment they deserve and for His own glory and praise! Not a single one will be lost! His purposes will be fully accomplished! Sinners do not add to His finished work nor activate its blessings! He is more than worthy of your best esteem!
Gospel preaching brings the good news of this gracious salvation. It cannot make elect out of reprobates, sheep out of goats, or spiritual men out of natural men; but it can teach, comfort, exhort, and warn the elect to live godly lives in this world, while we wait for Jesus from heaven.

We believe the gospel for the knowledge and comfort of eternal life it gives us (Acts 13:48; II Tim 1:10; I John 5:13). It describes God's wisdom and power in saving us by Jesus Christ (I Cor 1:18, 22-24), and it tells us what to do to please Him while living here (I Thess 4:1). The Bible was written to saints, and preaching should be done to them also (Acts 13:26; II Thess 3:1-2).

Believing the gospel is only an evidence of eternal life, not a condition for it. Verses speaking of faith in Christ are evidentiary facts, not impossible conditions required of dead sinners to save themselves. Baptism and the Lord's Supper are simply emblems to remind us of Jesus Christ.

There is a salvation in the gospel - but it is only a salvation to truth and comfort in this life - it is not a condition, prerequisite, or instrument for obtaining eternal life. We realize a salvation of comfort and hope by remembering the resurrection (I Cor 15:2, 19); ministers obtain salvation in godliness and truth by taking heed to themselves and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16); and we can all save each other from ungodly living by converting one another back to the truth (Jas 5:19-20).

The whole religious world stands against the truth of unconditional eternal life, for Satan has his Jesus preached by his gospel through his spirit everywhere (II Cor 11:3-4). Where do you stand?

The Jesus of God - Jehovah in the flesh - has by Himself fully saved His elect without the loss of one, and without conditions or requirements of any kind or description. Do you love Him?

Does unconditional eternal life create any motive for holy living? It creates the most! For only constant holy living proves you are God's elect. Rome's sacramentalism and "faith only" allow any lifestyle, as long as you were sprinkled or made a one-time, emotional decision for Jesus.

If you saw in this study God's wisdom and power in saving us by Jesus Christ, then you are saved and in possession of eternal life (I Cor 1:24; John 3:3; 17:2-3; I John 5:20).

If you wish to make your calling and election to eternal life sure, then there are things you should bear in your life as the evidence (II Peter 1:5-10; I Tim 6:17-19; Matt 7:21).

If you are thankful for God's gracious salvation, then you should answer Him with your good conscience in water baptism (I Peter 3:21; Acts 2:37-38; 8:35-39).

If you are already baptized, you need to worship Him in spirit and truth (John 4:24; Gal 1:8-9).

Let us humble ourselves before the living God, beg for His mercy, put our trust only in the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life, obey the gospel fully until He returns, and praise His glorious name!


See Also
Five Phases of Salvation

When were you saved? How were you saved? God saves His elect in five distinct phases or stages. Without these five aspects of salvation, you cannot rightly divide scripture on the most important Bible doctrine (II Tim 2:15). This sermon will teach you more about how to read and understand the Bible about salvation than any other. When would Paul say he was saved?

Great truths! Very well put

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Great truths! Very well put

I love that site. I am pleased to share it here in our discussion as I think they are far more proficient with their available resources to teach that we are under grace not under law than I have been.
I'm glad you found their information a blessing.

Had to come back and add these sermon teachings that may be of help here.
Sermons: Salvation


This sermon is excerpted from that link. I think it pertinent to this discussion.

Salvation By Works
Decisional regeneration means that a person is saved by a momentary decision about Jesus. However, the Bible does not teach this modern heresy. Instead, it constantly reminds us that only good works are the true evidence of eternal life.

"In the last 150 years, the basis or evidence of eternal life has been reduced from a changed life to merely naming Jesus in a rote prayer. Charles Finney originated the heresy; D.L. Moody perpetuated it; Billy Graham popularized it; and Jack Hyles profaned it.

Wise men call this heresy decisional regeneration, easy-believism, or fire insurance. They watch "converts" rush back to the world without any evidence of grace in their lives. These four men were partial in the Bible, infatuated with the human will, obsessed with numbers and popularity, and their preaching has corrupted Bible Christianity. Their "converts" presume salvation by a cheap decision for heaven.

The error spawned the Lordship controversy of the last two decades, where teachers of this heresy reject even basic repentance or commitment to Christ as part of salvation. But the Lord Jesus Christ and His apostles preached a very different doctrine, which required good works as the essential basis and evidence of eternal life."

 

[Truthfrees]

Ephesians 2:8-9
Philippians 3:9
Under Grace not Under Law

I'm under grace now, I'm no longer under the law, so I don't need to keep God's law, the ten commandments.

This is the most popular phrase I keep hearing with regards to the law of God, and keeping the Bible ten commandments. But what is the truth about being under grace and not under the law? Those professing Christians who claim that we no longer need to keep the law of God, ie, the ten commandments, often quote certain verses from the apostle Paul. One of the most popular verses being in Romans 6:14 ..... 'For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.'......Full teaching

​

Copied from the last paragraphs of the article.

Revelation 14:12 .....'Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

Yes we are under grace, but that doesn't and shouldn't stop us from keeping the law of God found in the Bible ten commandments. We are no longer under the law of sin and death, as Christ Jesus has freed us from this law, the law of the flesh. He paid the full price for our sin, but we should NEVER use His grace as an excuse to carry on living in sin. So the next time you think "Oh I'm under grace not under law", take a look at the WHOLE council of God and think on what Jesus did for you. He gave you a pardon from your death sentence. Are you now going to continue breaking the very law that put you in that death sentence in the first place? Are you going to count the love of Christ so cheaply? May God guide you into His truth about being under His grace.

amen - well said

 

[Papyrus_dust]

amen - well said

the law can't save us but the law can make us all aware of how to properly treat God and our fellow humans

The OT law was divided into parts. Ceremonial law, civil law, moral law.

The acts of contrition if you will, involved sacrifice of animals to cover sins of the believer. Jesus was the final sacrifice for all sins, he was the propitiation for all sins, on the cross. Which, when he was the unblemished perfect Lamb of God killed on the cross, that final altar for all sins, that OT law of sacrifice was finished.Works were put to death on that cross. Now, those who would believe in that last sacrifice for their sins, Christ, the anointed, would be saved from their sins. Because unlike the blood of bullocks, lambs, and other animals, that atoned for sins but did not cover them as a reconciliation sacrifice.Hebrews 10:4–11
Jesus' death did this as the last sacrifice that reconciled those who were once under the sin of Adam unto God through the death of sin through the second Adam; Christ.
The moral law is written in our hearts, the ten commands, because those instruct how we are to comport ourselves with one another and the world we are in but are not part of, as well as how we are to honor God and keep him first.

 

[brujaq]

We all know when we witness to some one they all need salvation first, different folks have different needs but there are many who have preconceived notions of what they think Christians should be and how they would have to act .. To those it is always my pleasure to tell them Acts 15:10-11 and you don't have to do anything as a Christian you don't want to .. I am amazed at my freedom and as I realized that , then Jesus become more appealing than ever, no more acting to please men, no more keeping up an image , that as you learn what Jesus is really about you begin to admire him so much that you want to do the thing he did and for the right reasons , that you take on his likeness to no longer want to hurt but love and have compassion all willingly and because you want to, you no longer have to please people but are truly free then on top of all that you receive power from the creator of all creation .. As you do Gods will then you become blessed, not blessed by the storing up of earthly things but true content satisfaction in the spirit and soul .. It almost makes me angry when people try to thank me even though it's nice but personally it almost scarry and I tell them it's free ''thank Jesus not me if not for him I probably would never care , let him pay me back his way'' .. And some , which is OK I guess for some seem to think Christian means castration instead of circumcision.. Lots of folks have hated my guts for no reason except I stood for Jesus but many of those folks didn't realize me and Jesus were fishing for them the whole time and put up with their crap until the time was right and I was able to dump a 55 gal drum of Jesus with love on them and they got saved, transformed and freed . It has been an awesome ride so far .. :amen

 

[JLB]

yes salvation is unconditional in other words we dont have to jump through hoops confess our sin to some man.... i dont have to know a bunch a scriptures to be saved. i just have to have a true heart heart ..to be technical God gives us a heart to know him.. he also takes the heart of stone and softens it ( a new heart } .the spirit quickens . aint NO man ever had part in saving anyone

If Salvation is unconditional then doesn't that mean there is no condition for man to be saved.

Why would Jesus say we need to repent and believe the Gospel if there was no condition to be saved.

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15


Why would Paul teach us we must believe in our heart and confess with our mouth Jesus as Lord, to be saved if there is no condition to be saved.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Paul said with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation!

13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:13


Why would the Lord need to send people to preach the Gospel so a people can hear and believe and confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus if there is no condition to be saved?


14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:14-16


But they have not all obeyed the gospel.


If the condition to obey the Gospel is not required then why did Paul write in the scriptures?


Why do men have to suffer and be martyred, to bring the Gospel to the lost if there is no condition to be saved?



JLB

 

[ezra]

We all know when we witness to some one they all need salvation first, different folks have different needs but there are many who have preconceived notions of what they think Christians should be and how they would have to act .. To those it is always my pleasure to tell them Acts 15:10-11 and you don't have to do anything as a Christian you don't want to .. I am amazed at my freedom and as I realized that , then Jesus become more appealing than ever, no more acting to please men, no more keeping up an image , that as you learn what Jesus is really about you begin to admire him so much that you want to do the thing he did and for the right reasons , that you take on his likeness to no longer want to hurt but love and have compassion all willingly and because you want to, you no longer have to please people but are truly free then on top of all that you receive power from the creator of all creation .. As you do Gods will then you become blessed, not blessed by the storing up of earthly things but true content satisfaction in the spirit and soul .. It almost makes me angry when people try to thank me even though it's nice but personally it almost scarry and I tell them it's free ''thank Jesus not me if not for him I probably would never care , let him pay me back his way'' .. And some , which is OK I guess for some seem to think Christian means castration instead of circumcision.. Lots of folks have hated my guts for no reason except I stood for Jesus but many of those folks didn't realize me and Jesus were fishing for them the whole time and put up with their crap until the time was right and I was able to dump a 55 gal drum of Jesus with love on them and they got saved, transformed and freed . It has been an awesome ride so far .. :amen

:amen