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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Under Grace not Under Law
- Thread starter Papyrus_dust
- Start date
The word game does not surprise me...
which is it are you in Christ or not ?
One time you call em sister and another a heretic so that leaves me confused as to your thoughts ..
Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Reading this verse i ask are those who walk in the flesh condemned?
Rom_12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
How is hum,bling ones self not a work?
In my opinion it is something Christians because they are saved..
Last edited:
Those who are in His grace, that is to say "In Christ" have eternal life.
Those who are in Christ, then are severed from Christ, no longer have eternal life anymore.
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4
And again
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
JLB
Papyrus_dust
Yup there it is just as plain as day .. I will disagree with Parker's theology as much as i disagree with yours...
We do 'good works' because we are saved ...
Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Heb_10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
1Pe_2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
Truthfrees
Member
amen
Papyrus_dust
Member
As I read back I see that a moderator warned of getting personal. My profile identification states the answer.
I have never called any member a heretic.
"who walk not after the flesh". It does not say "in the flesh".
In its proper context I believe you will find Romans 8 speaks of two different persons and their life. Those who are in Christ and walk after the Spirit. And those who are not and walk after the flesh.The saved and the unsaved.
Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
If you scroll back you'll see I answered this in detail.
I do not understand what you are saying there.
JohnDB
Member
No.
Unconditional election is the "U" in TULIP of Calvinism.... Meaning that you did nothing to gain favor by God for him to select you for salvation.
Unconditional salvation is synonymous with Universalism which is not allowed on this forum. Universalism is where everyone is saved whether they repent of sin or not.
Papyrus_dust
Member
Thank you.
Papyrus_dust
Member
Scriptures that support that statement please?
JohnDB
Member
These are commonly known terms and expressions. As we usually don't require anyone to quote Webster's dictionary this is the central thing yawl have been debating for five pages now.
AND
I am not and will not be a proponent of either theological position.
ezra
Member
if we have salvation then we have eternal life
not so sure as i understand what your saying by all........
ezra
Member
i see some mixed in theology ..if i was a lost person seeking answers and read this..i would probably not return due to all the confusion . conditional unconditional limited atonement unlimited . no wonder we have ten thousand teachers and not many fathers in the Lord. God is not the author of confusion
Post # 169, 217, 241, 257, 259, 260, 294
Papyrus_dust
Member
Ephesians 2
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Unconditional Salvation is not corrupted by the false unsustainable label of Universalism.
So that no reader is confused: "With verses such as these, it becomes clear that universalism and universal salvation are unbiblical beliefs. Universalism directly contradicts what Scripture teaches. " "Is universalism / universal salvation biblical?" ( My posting:No!)
There are only two ways of eternal life - God's way or Satan's counterfeit. Either God gives eternal life as a free and unconditional gift, or man must perform conditions of faith or works to obtain it.
If man must do anything, then God's grace is ruined, man becomes his own saviour, religious financing determines eternal destiny, and Satan has robbed Jesus Christ of His glory!
*Pasted the conclusion first so as to arrive at a preface for the context of the truth being taught here. That unconditional Salvatoin is the Good News. And it is not Universalism. If Universalists wish to conflate Unconditional Salvation with their heresy that is not God's word. That is fallen man's doing.
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/sermons/salvation/unconditional-salvation/sermon.php [The site includes a player wherein one can listen to this sermon rather than read] These passages are pasted here to bring any reader who is seeking Christ and happens on this thread to the truth of God's gift of Salvation through his grace. You are not saved without faith. John 3:16. May God lead those who's hearts are open to the cross. Amen.
Conclusion
How are we saved? By the grace of God through Jesus Christ - no ifs, ands, or buts! By Himself He saved His elect from the eternal judgment they deserve and for His own glory and praise! Not a single one will be lost! His purposes will be fully accomplished! Sinners do not add to His finished work nor activate its blessings! He is more than worthy of your best esteem!
Gospel preaching brings the good news of this gracious salvation. It cannot make elect out of reprobates, sheep out of goats, or spiritual men out of natural men; but it can teach, comfort, exhort, and warn the elect to live godly lives in this world, while we wait for Jesus from heaven.
We believe the gospel for the knowledge and comfort of eternal life it gives us (Acts 13:48; II Tim 1:10; I John 5:13). It describes God's wisdom and power in saving us by Jesus Christ (I Cor 1:18, 22-24), and it tells us what to do to please Him while living here (I Thess 4:1). The Bible was written to saints, and preaching should be done to them also (Acts 13:26; II Thess 3:1-2).
Believing the gospel is only an evidence of eternal life, not a condition for it. Verses speaking of faith in Christ are evidentiary facts, not impossible conditions required of dead sinners to save themselves. Baptism and the Lord's Supper are simply emblems to remind us of Jesus Christ.
There is a salvation in the gospel - but it is only a salvation to truth and comfort in this life - it is not a condition, prerequisite, or instrument for obtaining eternal life. We realize a salvation of comfort and hope by remembering the resurrection (I Cor 15:2, 19); ministers obtain salvation in godliness and truth by taking heed to themselves and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16); and we can all save each other from ungodly living by converting one another back to the truth (Jas 5:19-20).
The whole religious world stands against the truth of unconditional eternal life, for Satan has his Jesus preached by his gospel through his spirit everywhere (II Cor 11:3-4). Where do you stand?
The Jesus of God - Jehovah in the flesh - has by Himself fully saved His elect without the loss of one, and without conditions or requirements of any kind or description. Do you love Him?
Does unconditional eternal life create any motive for holy living? It creates the most! For only constant holy living proves you are God's elect. Rome's sacramentalism and "faith only" allow any lifestyle, as long as you were sprinkled or made a one-time, emotional decision for Jesus.
If you saw in this study God's wisdom and power in saving us by Jesus Christ, then you are saved and in possession of eternal life (I Cor 1:24; John 3:3; 17:2-3; I John 5:20).
If you wish to make your calling and election to eternal life sure, then there are things you should bear in your life as the evidence (II Peter 1:5-10; I Tim 6:17-19; Matt 7:21).
If you are thankful for God's gracious salvation, then you should answer Him with your good conscience in water baptism (I Peter 3:21; Acts 2:37-38; 8:35-39).
If you are already baptized, you need to worship Him in spirit and truth (John 4:24; Gal 1:8-9).
Let us humble ourselves before the living God, beg for His mercy, put our trust only in the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life, obey the gospel fully until He returns, and praise His glorious name!
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Unconditional Salvation is not corrupted by the false unsustainable label of Universalism.
So that no reader is confused: "With verses such as these, it becomes clear that universalism and universal salvation are unbiblical beliefs. Universalism directly contradicts what Scripture teaches. " "Is universalism / universal salvation biblical?" ( My posting:No!)
There are only two ways of eternal life - God's way or Satan's counterfeit. Either God gives eternal life as a free and unconditional gift, or man must perform conditions of faith or works to obtain it.
If man must do anything, then God's grace is ruined, man becomes his own saviour, religious financing determines eternal destiny, and Satan has robbed Jesus Christ of His glory!
*Pasted the conclusion first so as to arrive at a preface for the context of the truth being taught here. That unconditional Salvatoin is the Good News. And it is not Universalism. If Universalists wish to conflate Unconditional Salvation with their heresy that is not God's word. That is fallen man's doing.
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/sermons/salvation/unconditional-salvation/sermon.php [The site includes a player wherein one can listen to this sermon rather than read] These passages are pasted here to bring any reader who is seeking Christ and happens on this thread to the truth of God's gift of Salvation through his grace. You are not saved without faith. John 3:16. May God lead those who's hearts are open to the cross. Amen.
Conclusion
How are we saved? By the grace of God through Jesus Christ - no ifs, ands, or buts! By Himself He saved His elect from the eternal judgment they deserve and for His own glory and praise! Not a single one will be lost! His purposes will be fully accomplished! Sinners do not add to His finished work nor activate its blessings! He is more than worthy of your best esteem!
Gospel preaching brings the good news of this gracious salvation. It cannot make elect out of reprobates, sheep out of goats, or spiritual men out of natural men; but it can teach, comfort, exhort, and warn the elect to live godly lives in this world, while we wait for Jesus from heaven.
We believe the gospel for the knowledge and comfort of eternal life it gives us (Acts 13:48; II Tim 1:10; I John 5:13). It describes God's wisdom and power in saving us by Jesus Christ (I Cor 1:18, 22-24), and it tells us what to do to please Him while living here (I Thess 4:1). The Bible was written to saints, and preaching should be done to them also (Acts 13:26; II Thess 3:1-2).
Believing the gospel is only an evidence of eternal life, not a condition for it. Verses speaking of faith in Christ are evidentiary facts, not impossible conditions required of dead sinners to save themselves. Baptism and the Lord's Supper are simply emblems to remind us of Jesus Christ.
There is a salvation in the gospel - but it is only a salvation to truth and comfort in this life - it is not a condition, prerequisite, or instrument for obtaining eternal life. We realize a salvation of comfort and hope by remembering the resurrection (I Cor 15:2, 19); ministers obtain salvation in godliness and truth by taking heed to themselves and the doctrine (I Tim 4:16); and we can all save each other from ungodly living by converting one another back to the truth (Jas 5:19-20).
The whole religious world stands against the truth of unconditional eternal life, for Satan has his Jesus preached by his gospel through his spirit everywhere (II Cor 11:3-4). Where do you stand?
The Jesus of God - Jehovah in the flesh - has by Himself fully saved His elect without the loss of one, and without conditions or requirements of any kind or description. Do you love Him?
Does unconditional eternal life create any motive for holy living? It creates the most! For only constant holy living proves you are God's elect. Rome's sacramentalism and "faith only" allow any lifestyle, as long as you were sprinkled or made a one-time, emotional decision for Jesus.
If you saw in this study God's wisdom and power in saving us by Jesus Christ, then you are saved and in possession of eternal life (I Cor 1:24; John 3:3; 17:2-3; I John 5:20).
If you wish to make your calling and election to eternal life sure, then there are things you should bear in your life as the evidence (II Peter 1:5-10; I Tim 6:17-19; Matt 7:21).
If you are thankful for God's gracious salvation, then you should answer Him with your good conscience in water baptism (I Peter 3:21; Acts 2:37-38; 8:35-39).
If you are already baptized, you need to worship Him in spirit and truth (John 4:24; Gal 1:8-9).
Let us humble ourselves before the living God, beg for His mercy, put our trust only in the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life, obey the gospel fully until He returns, and praise His glorious name!
Papyrus_dust
Member
Proof #6
The Bible gives examples of sinners
saved without any conditions.
Since God saves sinners unconditionally by His own sovereign wisdom and power in Jesus Christ, and the gospel and its ordinances are only for the education and comfort of the elect, then there should be examples of such cases in the Bible. And there are many. The previous proofs and the following examples solve the perpetual questions men have had about infants, idiots, and the heathen. Salvation is by God's grace alone, and it can easily reach every class of man in every situation. The examples to follow cover every man and thus are comforts for our souls.
We have already shown in the previous five proofs that God's elect are saved fully and infallibly without conditions. But let us add to these proofs with specific examples of such from the Bible.
What about John the Baptist? He leaped for joy in his mother's womb at the presence of Jesus, and he did so by the Holy Ghost (Luke 1:15, 44). Joy is a fruit of the Spirit and an evidence of eternal life, so we know John was saved before he was born (Gal 5:22; Rom 8:14-15; I Pet 1:8).
What about Cornelius? He feared God, which no unsaved man does (Rom 3:18); and he gave alms and prayed acceptably to God (Acts 10:1-4). And this was true before hearing the gospel or being baptized. Peter revealed by the Spirit he was already accepted with God (Acts 10:34-35).
What about Lot? He loved Sodom more than righteousness, and he ended up incestuously with his daughters in a cave (Gen 13:12; Gen 19:14, 16, 20, 36). Yet we are taught by the Spirit Lot was a just and righteous man, saved by the glorious grace of God by Christ's obedience (II Pet 2:7-9).
What about the rich young ruler? Though he chose his riches over Christ, Jesus loved him; and he went away sorrowful - two marks of a man with eternal life (Mark 10:17-27). Jesus hates the wicked (Ps 5:5; Matt 7:23); and only spiritual men desire to follow Christ. Riches are a strong obstacle to obedience; but salvation by an omnipotent God is easy even in such cases.
What about Israel in the wilderness? They ate and drank spiritually of Jesus Christ, which is to have eternal life (I Cor 10:1-4); but they were disobedient and rebellious (I Cor 10:5). Yet God chose them, chastened them, called them children, and loved them (Deu 7:6-8; 8:5; 14:1; 33:1-3).
What about blinded Israel? Paul declares that a portion of elect Israel was blinded to the gospel, so that though they were enemies of the gospel, they were beloved in election (Rom 11:25-32).
What about infants? There is no doctrine of salvation on earth that consistently and Scripturally provides for infants, except the truth of unconditional salvation. Since eternal life is entirely by God's grace in Jesus Christ, dying elect infants are saved the same way as all other sinners.
Proof #7
Unconditional salvation is the only
doctrine giving God all the glory.
Eternal life entirely by grace without human conditions gives God an infinite and undivided measure of glory. Any conditional system of salvation, even those requiring only faith, make man the determiner of his own destiny - and thus his own saviour. But there will be no sharing of glory in heaven, for Jesus Christ will receive it all. The wicked are not in hell, because they failed to do what the righteous did, but rather because Jesus Christ did not do for them what He did for the righteous. Salvation is of the Lord, and this fact cannot be modified or compromised.
If a mere offer requires conditions, then it is a reward and not a free gift; then the Giver is in debt to the one meeting the conditions (Rom 4:4); then it is of works rather than grace (Rom 11:6); then the Giver is robbed of glory by the one performing (I Cor 1:26-31). Only by eliminating all conditions does God get all the glory (Eph 2:9; Rom 11:33-36; I Cor 4:7; Titus 3:4-7).
The true God is Jealous, and He will not share His glory (Ex 34:14; Is 42:8). He has so designed salvation to give Himself all the glory (I Cor 1:26-31; Rom 2:29; 9:23; Eph 2:7).
God created all things - even the wicked for the day of evil - for Himself and His own pleasure (Prov 16:4; Rev 4:11). He did not create us for our pleasure, and then helped us out of our sins. He was not surprised by sin in Eden at all, for it was all part of His purpose to glorify Himself.
Salvation is not remedial to deliver damned sinners God pitied, but rather revelatory of His glorious nature by the judgment of the wicked and the deliverance of the elect (Rom 9:14-24). He chose to display His wrath and power in the one category and His glorious riches in the other.
Many talk and sing about salvation by grace, but only unconditional eternal life is truly gracious; for if we add conditions to His grace, then sinners choose their own salvation. The difference between heaven and hell is not man's choice at all, but God's (I Thess 1:2-4; II Thess 2:13).
God based salvation on His own will in predestination for His own glory (Eph 1:5-6, 11-12). He has mercy on whom He chooses, without regard for man's will or efforts (Rom 9:15-16).
If God wanted all men saved and sent Jesus to die for them, based on their compliance, then two things are true - He is the most frustrated Being and His work effectively accomplished nothing.
Jesus victoriously saved His people from their sins without losing one (Matt 1:21; John 6:39), and the elect know He saved them exclusively by Himself (Rev 5:1-14; Heb 2:13; Rev 6:10).
There is only one soul winner in heaven - Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Praise ye the Lord.
The Bible gives examples of sinners
saved without any conditions.
Since God saves sinners unconditionally by His own sovereign wisdom and power in Jesus Christ, and the gospel and its ordinances are only for the education and comfort of the elect, then there should be examples of such cases in the Bible. And there are many. The previous proofs and the following examples solve the perpetual questions men have had about infants, idiots, and the heathen. Salvation is by God's grace alone, and it can easily reach every class of man in every situation. The examples to follow cover every man and thus are comforts for our souls.
We have already shown in the previous five proofs that God's elect are saved fully and infallibly without conditions. But let us add to these proofs with specific examples of such from the Bible.
What about John the Baptist? He leaped for joy in his mother's womb at the presence of Jesus, and he did so by the Holy Ghost (Luke 1:15, 44). Joy is a fruit of the Spirit and an evidence of eternal life, so we know John was saved before he was born (Gal 5:22; Rom 8:14-15; I Pet 1:8).
What about Cornelius? He feared God, which no unsaved man does (Rom 3:18); and he gave alms and prayed acceptably to God (Acts 10:1-4). And this was true before hearing the gospel or being baptized. Peter revealed by the Spirit he was already accepted with God (Acts 10:34-35).
What about Lot? He loved Sodom more than righteousness, and he ended up incestuously with his daughters in a cave (Gen 13:12; Gen 19:14, 16, 20, 36). Yet we are taught by the Spirit Lot was a just and righteous man, saved by the glorious grace of God by Christ's obedience (II Pet 2:7-9).
What about the rich young ruler? Though he chose his riches over Christ, Jesus loved him; and he went away sorrowful - two marks of a man with eternal life (Mark 10:17-27). Jesus hates the wicked (Ps 5:5; Matt 7:23); and only spiritual men desire to follow Christ. Riches are a strong obstacle to obedience; but salvation by an omnipotent God is easy even in such cases.
What about Israel in the wilderness? They ate and drank spiritually of Jesus Christ, which is to have eternal life (I Cor 10:1-4); but they were disobedient and rebellious (I Cor 10:5). Yet God chose them, chastened them, called them children, and loved them (Deu 7:6-8; 8:5; 14:1; 33:1-3).
What about blinded Israel? Paul declares that a portion of elect Israel was blinded to the gospel, so that though they were enemies of the gospel, they were beloved in election (Rom 11:25-32).
What about infants? There is no doctrine of salvation on earth that consistently and Scripturally provides for infants, except the truth of unconditional salvation. Since eternal life is entirely by God's grace in Jesus Christ, dying elect infants are saved the same way as all other sinners.
Proof #7
Unconditional salvation is the only
doctrine giving God all the glory.
Eternal life entirely by grace without human conditions gives God an infinite and undivided measure of glory. Any conditional system of salvation, even those requiring only faith, make man the determiner of his own destiny - and thus his own saviour. But there will be no sharing of glory in heaven, for Jesus Christ will receive it all. The wicked are not in hell, because they failed to do what the righteous did, but rather because Jesus Christ did not do for them what He did for the righteous. Salvation is of the Lord, and this fact cannot be modified or compromised.
If a mere offer requires conditions, then it is a reward and not a free gift; then the Giver is in debt to the one meeting the conditions (Rom 4:4); then it is of works rather than grace (Rom 11:6); then the Giver is robbed of glory by the one performing (I Cor 1:26-31). Only by eliminating all conditions does God get all the glory (Eph 2:9; Rom 11:33-36; I Cor 4:7; Titus 3:4-7).
The true God is Jealous, and He will not share His glory (Ex 34:14; Is 42:8). He has so designed salvation to give Himself all the glory (I Cor 1:26-31; Rom 2:29; 9:23; Eph 2:7).
God created all things - even the wicked for the day of evil - for Himself and His own pleasure (Prov 16:4; Rev 4:11). He did not create us for our pleasure, and then helped us out of our sins. He was not surprised by sin in Eden at all, for it was all part of His purpose to glorify Himself.
Salvation is not remedial to deliver damned sinners God pitied, but rather revelatory of His glorious nature by the judgment of the wicked and the deliverance of the elect (Rom 9:14-24). He chose to display His wrath and power in the one category and His glorious riches in the other.
Many talk and sing about salvation by grace, but only unconditional eternal life is truly gracious; for if we add conditions to His grace, then sinners choose their own salvation. The difference between heaven and hell is not man's choice at all, but God's (I Thess 1:2-4; II Thess 2:13).
God based salvation on His own will in predestination for His own glory (Eph 1:5-6, 11-12). He has mercy on whom He chooses, without regard for man's will or efforts (Rom 9:15-16).
If God wanted all men saved and sent Jesus to die for them, based on their compliance, then two things are true - He is the most frustrated Being and His work effectively accomplished nothing.
Jesus victoriously saved His people from their sins without losing one (Matt 1:21; John 6:39), and the elect know He saved them exclusively by Himself (Rev 5:1-14; Heb 2:13; Rev 6:10).
There is only one soul winner in heaven - Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Praise ye the Lord.
Papyrus_dust
Member
Again, I have never called a member a heretic. Those posts are referring to the heresy of revocable salvation and works salvation, i.e. someone can work to merit God's grace so that he then saves them. Which is heresy. And those pastors who teach that are heretics by merit of preaching heresy. I NEVER called any member here a heretic. And those posts do not prove I did. They prove I referred to the ungodly heresy of revocable salvation as heresy. And its sponsors.
dirtfarmer
Member
dirtfarmer here
How many times did the death angel visit the children of Israel? If your answer is once, then consider what the sacrifices were for; it was not for salvation but for restoration of fellowship. The relationship of Israel which God provided was not hindered, but fellowship was. After the "Passover lamb's blood was placed on the door post in Egypt(a type of the world) it was never applied to door post again. Israel was taken out of Egypt and journeyed 40 years in the wilderness. The sacrifices were for restoring fellowship but not for restoration of relationship, that was not hindered. God's chosen people were still his chosen people even though fellowship was broken. Fellowship was restored when a specific type of sacrifice was offered.
Crossing the Red Sea is a type of dying to self. We see this in that a pillar of smoke in the day and a pillar of fire at night led them while in the wilderness. Also their clothes and shoes didn't wear out for 40 years. Their dying because of unbelief was because they didn't believe God's word as to his promises to keep and feed them. also because they didn't believe that he would provide them with houses that didn't build, eat of crops they didn't plant, and that he would fight their battles.
The same is true about believers today, as to our spiritual heritage. Once we become a child of God that relationship is never broken. What is broken is the fellowship that we enjoy as children.
How many times did the death angel visit the children of Israel? If your answer is once, then consider what the sacrifices were for; it was not for salvation but for restoration of fellowship. The relationship of Israel which God provided was not hindered, but fellowship was. After the "Passover lamb's blood was placed on the door post in Egypt(a type of the world) it was never applied to door post again. Israel was taken out of Egypt and journeyed 40 years in the wilderness. The sacrifices were for restoring fellowship but not for restoration of relationship, that was not hindered. God's chosen people were still his chosen people even though fellowship was broken. Fellowship was restored when a specific type of sacrifice was offered.
Crossing the Red Sea is a type of dying to self. We see this in that a pillar of smoke in the day and a pillar of fire at night led them while in the wilderness. Also their clothes and shoes didn't wear out for 40 years. Their dying because of unbelief was because they didn't believe God's word as to his promises to keep and feed them. also because they didn't believe that he would provide them with houses that didn't build, eat of crops they didn't plant, and that he would fight their battles.
The same is true about believers today, as to our spiritual heritage. Once we become a child of God that relationship is never broken. What is broken is the fellowship that we enjoy as children.
Papyrus_dust
Member
There are many mothers in the Lord and Fathers too.
No, God is not the author of confusion. But turn on the TV and you'll witness any number of very very rich materialist wannabe's, claim-to-be fathers and mothers, who corrupt the word for their own personal gain. And I believe it is because they want to lead people away from the cross. And get rich doing it.
As to this site being an avenue for the lost, I disagree with your observation. The statement of faith in this forum is very clear. And has been shared in this thread. Because if it can be a gift to Twitter people, it can certainly be a gift to those whom you refer. A lost person.
Most people when looking to join a forum or even lurk, read the terms of service. And if it is a religious site, the statement of faith. If they're lost and seeking, they want to find out if there is a flicker of answer to what it is that draws them to seek. And that is why religious sites post their statement of faith. Not the only reason of course. But with regard to the great commission , one of the reasons for a Christian forum to do so.
The back and forth in a forum, such as here, is no less than what is debated in churches, on the streets, and absolutely with regard to Judaism, in the Temple.
We as the saints in Christ learn from such things among our sisters and brothers. And in that learning, that testing of the spirits, John 1, we can be better prepared to witness to the unbeliever, the lost. And those who may be that and challenge us to prove we know what we are talking about when we say we are Christian. Or, are In Christ. It's a blessing. Not a factor that should make the lost run away.
IF they run toward Christ they're already afraid of the world. Christ takes that fear away. If they want to know Jesus they should face everything that scares them in their search to find him. Because the world in its conflict is just like the ideology that exists in the world of the faithful. Otherwise, there would be one denomination. And one version of the Bible.