What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[Cnkw3]

John's Baptism is water baptism.

Those that submitted to Johns baptism.....what were they to believe? And is there belief the same belief we are to have today?

If Jesus, who represents the Church submitted to it then we should follow Him is His example.

JLB

Was Jesus a Jew? Are you? Who was Johns baptism for?

 

[Mungo]

You are making a good argument and it’s the argument that 90+% of the Christian world makes. I do not agree and I think people have been taught wrong and misled. Not necessarily on purpose but through ignorance.
The Bible is it’s own best commentary. If one will read and study they will find that the Bible will explain what it means on many topics.
I believe acts 8 is Bible commentary for acts 2. In acts 2 Peter makes two promises.
1. If a believer will repent and be baptized their sins will be removed which means they are saved. Mk 16:16.
2. He then uses the word AND to say they would receive the gift of the HS. But he DID NOT say these two things would happen at the same time.
In acts 8 we are told this about the converts in Samaria...
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
What does he mean by “ONLY” they had been baptized? Again...Peter had made two promises. 1. baptism to remove sins. 2. gift of the HS. The Samaritans had received ONLY one of these. They had been saved through obedience to the gospel in baptism but had not YET received the gift of the HS, which is what they received through laying on of hands. They had ONLY been baptized (meaning of course that they were saved).
In Mk 16 Jesus made a similar promise. He said those that believe would be able to perform certain miracles. Was this promise for everybody at the point of baptism? No! If not why not? We know this because of the examples we are given in the NT. Not all baptized individuals automatically received miraculous gifts. Those on Pentecost didn’t even receive it.
I guess Jesus broke his promise.
I will add this....
I do not believe the HS personally and directly falls upon an individual for salvation at the point of baptism. In baptism a person is washed by the blood of Jesus. That is what saves. There is now no need for some personal HS intervention for salvation. The blood is enough.

90+% of Christianity believes one thing and you believe the opposite.
There is no arguing with that sort of belief.

 

[JLB]

Ok.so in detail

Ok, but can you be specific in your understanding ....is this saying that it is Jesus's baptism into death.....and His being renewed or quickened by the Spirit.. And It Is His Spirit of Life that is being poured out?

My post refers to being born again; ie regenerated, IOW saved by faith.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

This is what I call "initial" salvation, in which the Spirit baptizes us into Christ.


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13


In this we become joined to Christ and are one spirit with Him.

We are one spirit with the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, and thus we have eternal life, having been made to "drink" of the Spirit.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians6:17


This comes by believing, and is a work of the Spirit.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


After this we are baptized in water and also baptized with the Holy Spirit.



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

No, there was only one true baptism. That was with water.
So called Baptism in the Holy Spirit only uses baptism as a metaphor.

There is one current baptism done by man, but another granted by God.

 

[JLB]

Why did Jesus get Baptized in water...

Because it was right with God, (righteous) for Jesus to validate water baptism for the Church... even though he had no sin to repent of.

 

[Hopeful]

Here’s why...
In acts 1 Jesus, speaking directly to the apostles made this promise....
Acts 1:4,5 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
This promise, right here, at this time, was ONLY GIVEN to the apostles. They waited 10 days and then this happened to ONLY the apostles.
Acts 2:2-4 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
This describes what a “baptism of the HS” looks like. It is a miraculous event for effect. This was not for their salvation.
There is only one other example of HS baptism in all the NT and guess what? It follows this same pattern. (Acts 10) It was a miraculous event other people could witness. Everyone knew something amazing had just taken place. NOWHERE do we ever see a non miraculous “HS baptism” (If so, show me) and all these people today want to claim they were “baptized with HS” even though there was no miraculous event and they can’t prove any of it. It goes like this.....yeaaa, I was baptized with HS! Someone then says...oh yea? What happened?
Oh..nothing, I just know I was baptized with Spirit.

Those in acts 8, after they were baptized in water, DID NOT receive the Spirit. The HS, through Luke, made it a point to tell us this fact. The Bible will define what it means if you just read, study and let it do the work. Dont add to or take away from the text. There is much more I could say as to why I dont believe this is for us today but I don’t see how people get past these above facts.

Those in Acts 8 did receive the Holy Ghost..."Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost." (Acts 8:17)
It was done by the laying on of hands to illustrate that the apostles could deliver the Spirit to the truly repentant.
Paul used this gift on the twelve at Ephesus in Acts 19:6..."And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."
Paul was not with the original one hundred and twenty, (Acts 1:15), on the day of Pentecost either.

Your reasoning that only the apostles could receive the gift of the Holy Ghost is refuted by all the folks who received it later.
Including me...thanks be to God.

 

[Hopeful]

No. Nowhere did Peter EVER promise the “baptism of the HS”. Peter said...after a person was baptized, they would “receive the gift of the HS”. He DID NOT use the phrase....”baptism with the HS”. Jesus in acts 1 specifically used that baptism phrase when he made the promise to the apostles. You are adding words to the text that aren’t there. Don’t get caught into that trap.
Now the discussion would be....
What is “the gift of the HS”? I have a Bible based opinion on that and that would take many lines and probably an entire thread to discuss.

I know Peter mentions that phrase in acts 10 but does that mean that the “gift of the HS” was the direct baptism of the HS or was he just referring to the miraculous ability Cornelius was now displaying?
I think the “gift of the HS” was the miraculous ability they displayed.
There were two ways to receive this kind of miraculous ability.

1. Directly through Jesus in the “baptism of the HS” displayed here and in acts 2.
2. Then there was through the laying on of an apostles hands. Either way, the new miraculous ability these people had was a gift of the HS.
In acts 8, after they were baptized in water, apostles (Peter and John) were sent to lay hands on these new converts so that they could receive the Spirit. Well if the promise in acts 2, by Peter, was for everyone directly from Jesus then why didn’t it happen here? This miraculous ability, given by the apostles, in acts 8 is literally called....the “gift of God”.
Acts 8:19,20 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
The “gift of God” is the same as “the gift of the HS”. If not why not? The HS is “God” as proven in acts 5:3,4.
So, no....I do not believe that “the gift of the HS” is the SAME as “the baptism of the HS”. The “gift of the HS” can be found in both the baptism of the HS and through the laying on of hands of an apostle. We dont receive either today. Why? There is no need for it. If a person won’t believe the biblical record then they won’t believe even if one was raised from the dead. Lk 16:31

The gift of the Holy Spirit is the same as the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

was what happened to Cornelius the same as what happened to those in Ephesus? Yes or no? If yes then explain how.

That both received the promised gift of the Holy Spirit...yes it was the same.
Both had already turned form sin, but Cornelius' household received the Spirit before water baptism while the twelve at Ephesus received the gift of the Holy Spirit after they were water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Same results...both answered the results of Peter's Acts 2:38 exhortation.
Do A and B, and receive C.

 

[Hopeful]

Lamasibmysamalalabymea
Did it sound something like that? Because I watch Jimmy Swaggert doing it on TV and that’s about how it goes.
Please show me anyone in the NT that jabbered as “speaking in tongues”?

Cornelius and the twelve at Ephesus.
And Paul who wrote..."Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." (Rom 8:26)

 

[Hopeful]

Again, the Temple in the Old Testament is made of three distinct sections, and typify us the human being in the New Testament.
What part of the Temple did the presence of God, which is typified by the Ark, dwell in?
The outer court?
The holy place?
The holy of holies?

Folks today are either in Christ or out of Christ.
There is one body.
Your inference is that those in the feet are somehow different or of less/more worth than those in the hands.
It is a ludicrous suggestion.

 

[Hopeful]

Great. So you agree we have not been resurrected from the dead, and thus we have not yet received our new, eternal vessel?

Resurrected from the dead?
If you mean the final resurrection...No I have not.
But I have been raised from the tomb with Christ to walk in newness of life after my death with Him.
I am a new creature with a body quickened by God.
What was once dead is now alive.
No longer of Adamic seed, but reborn of God's own seed.

A "final" resurrection awaits all men.

 

[JLB]

Folks today are either in Christ or out of Christ.
There is one body.
Your inference is that those in the feet are somehow different or of less/more worth than those in the hands.
It is a ludicrous suggestion.

I think you either have me mixed up with someone else or you are deliberately making up a lie about what I posted because I never said anything at all about someone being in the feet being less than someone in the hands.

please just post the scripture that's says the Spirit gives birth to our flesh.

still waiting...

 

[JLB]

Resurrected from the dead?
If you mean the final resurrection...No I have not.

Correct you have not and therefore you have the same physical body you had when you were born from your mother's womb




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

I think you either have me mixed up with someone else or you are deliberately making up a lie about what I posted because I never said anything at all about someone being in the feet being less than someone in the hands.

It was the obvious conclusion of your POV.

please just post the scripture that's says the Spirit gives birth to our flesh.s till waiting...

Birth to?
I'll do better..."Life to"...
It is written..."

1. Ephesians 2:1
   And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Ephesians 2:5
   Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
3. Colossians 2:13
   And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
4. 1 Peter 3:18
   For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

We can't be born again unless the old man dies.

 

[Walpole]

What Does scripture (God's Word) say:

This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.

Colossians 2:8Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of  the world, and not according to Christ.

1 peter 1:17-9And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

Again, we are discussing baptism. What do those random verses have to do with the topic?

Here is what Scripture says about baptism:

- You must be baptized to be saved. - Mark 16:16
- It is the normative means by which God brings people to newness of life - Romans 6:4.
- It means the old life and person has died in baptism and is made new, born again. - John 3:5
- It forgives sins. - Acts 2:38
- It washes sin away. - Acts 22:16
- It regenerates. - Titus 3:4-7
- In it we are buried and united us to Christ, and frees us from sin. - Romans 6:1-10
- It was typified in the Israelites crossing the Red Sea - 1 Corinthians 10:1-4
- It is how we become clothed with Christ. - Gal 3:26-27
- And yes, "saves" us. 1 Peter 3:21

Given the significance of baptism in the Christian faith, it explains why the early Christians had designated baptistries. It is also why the Church included it in her Nicene Creed.

 

[Walpole]

My best friend was Catholic and my Spouse...but their eyes were open to the truth...Still love you though but after that long post I wrote if your eyes are still closed then what more is there to discuss....You have a great Labor Day.

Did your best friend and wife try and undo their baptism?

Did you have them dry baptized - without water - in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Runmyramble]

My post refers to being born again; ie regenerated, IOW saved by faith.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

This is what I call "initial" salvation, in which the Spirit baptizes us into Christ.


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13


In this we become joined to Christ and are one spirit with Him.

We are one spirit with the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, and thus we have eternal life, having been made to "drink" of the Spirit.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians6:17


This comes by believing, and is a work of the Spirit.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


After this we are baptized in water and also baptized with the Holy Spirit.



JLB

Tks
So at what point do you know you have eternal life?

 

[Runmyramble]

Because it was right with God, (righteous) for Jesus to validate water baptism for the Church... even though he had no sin to repent of.

Usually when we see symbolic actions It seem to me something that has been prophesied Is coming into affect.

 

[Runmyramble]

Did your best friend and wife try and undo their baptism?

Did you have them dry baptized - without water - in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit?

No comment..Be blessed

 

[Runmyramble]

Again, we are discussing baptism. What do those random verses have to do with the topic?

Here is what Scripture says about baptism:

- You must be baptized to be saved. - Mark 16:16
- It is the normative means by which God brings people to newness of life - Romans 6:4.
- It means the old life and person has died in baptism and is made new, born again. - John 3:5
- It forgives sins. - Acts 2:38
- It washes sin away. - Acts 22:16
- It regenerates. - Titus 3:4-7
- In it we are buried and united us to Christ, and frees us from sin. - Romans 6:1-10
- It was typified in the Israelites crossing the Red Sea - 1 Corinthians 10:1-4
- It is how we become clothed with Christ. - Gal 3:26-27
- And yes, "saves" us. 1 Peter 3:21

Given the significance of baptism in the Christian faith, it explains why the early Christians had designated baptistries. It is also why the Church included it in her Nicene Creed.

No comment..take care

 

[Runmyramble]

It was the obvious conclusion of your POV.

Birth to?
I'll do better..."Life to"...
It is written..."

1. Ephesians 2:1
   And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Ephesians 2:5
   Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
3. Colossians 2:13
   And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
4. 1 Peter 3:18
   For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

We can't be born again unless the old man dies.

The word of God comes alive as we live it out...Here is one of those cases where I see this passage in Hebrews-let us go on to perfection [maturity]....